so US shot down its own planes, where?
Friendly fire on Ground troops, different scenario.
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For anyone paying attention, including the Russians, the conflict last year against Georgia was an eye opener. There have been several lessons learned
and reported on in Russia about what they need to modernize and focus on as a result of that conflict. Particular systems and capability stand out.
However the most challenging and pressing is Russian ability to link all assets into a real time unified command and control environment. In this
respect, due to both physical inadequacy of systems, and a lack of proper command structure, the Russian demonstrated they were way behind the West.
They struggled to launch an operation against a very small county and military which is right on their doorstep. Now imagine projecting massive power
half away around the world against a competent force.
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reply to post by WestPoint23
Yes, i was suprised that they had such a time. Georgia's army amount to less than a division, they should have been steam rolled by the russians but
due to the inadequacies you pointed out they werent able to.
The chechen conflict also illustrates these inadequacies very well.
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reply to post by werk71
I know of at least one incident where an RAF Tornado returning from a mission was shot down by a US Patriot missile, it was a very high profile
'incident' at the time.
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eh i dont remember the russians sending in loads of stuff in georgia. iirc they send in like 2-3 divisions worth?
The conflict lasted 9 days im finding numbers varying from 9k to 16k worth of georgian millitary in south ossetia and who knows about the use of
police in the conflict.
Russia reportedly send in 10k in south ossetia and 9k max from abkhazia this was supported by around 3k ossetian troops and 5k of abkhazian troops.
I wouldnt call that overwhelming odds for the georgians.
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A few things to remember for those of you bashing the Russian military....EVERY country in that area flies Russian built fighters, SU-27s, MiG-29s,
etc. When your ground defense forces see a plane coming at them, if they try to visually identify them they're going to see the same types of planes
that their own military flies.
Russian SAMs are capable of optically tracking (at least some of them), which is a huge advantage, because tracking by radar lets the target know that
they've been shot at, and they can use countermeasures. If they were using optical tracking, instead of using radar or IR, then they saw the same
planes their own military was flying in the area.
Yes, six planes shot down in such a short time is a pretty harsh blue on blue, but it doesn't mean that Russia has a bad military, it just means that
they have to get more training, and upgrade their systems.
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Isn't that the point of IFF systems?
Or has Russia not incorporated that?
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reply to post by Iblis
IFF systems can be malfunctioning, or set wrong, or any number of other problems. The US and other allies use IFF systems, and still have blue on
blue problems.
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reply to post by gimme_some_truth
Nahh, damn things probably fell apart in the air. Could see Ivan pulling some chicanery over Georgia though.
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There is one thing to remember about the Georgian war. Operation was NOT initiated by the Kremlin nor Russian high command in Moscow. It was started
by the Caucasus military district, with the forces under its command. Thus the most modernd planes (that are under either moscow district or high
command were not available). Operation was started to protect and assist Russian forces in Georgia.
Later on some high command assets like the 76th div. Chernikov were sent to the teather. (to secure abhazia) And some strategic air assets were
dispatched.
Air regiments under the caucasus district were second or third tier forces, with out dated planes and inexperienced pilots (with very low hours in
their planes, thus the senior staff flew most of the missions as they at least had had more hours in earlier times, most pilots flying tac-ops wre
majors or colonels)
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