Russia 'shot down its own planes'

BBC News

A report in a Russian military journal claims that half the planes Russia lost in its war with Georgia last year were shot down by friendly fire.

The article, in the Moscow Defence Brief magazine, also claims that Russia lost a total of six military aircraft, two more than it is admitting to.

As should be expected the Russian authorities claim the story is incorrect - though it does hint at the quality of their battlespace management.

I wonder how many missions they few overall

Teach those pilots to stop being FUI (flying Under the Influence)
Too much Vodka and so little time in Russia

wow. maybe they just suck at war? or perhaps they want everyone to underestimate them? or probably they just suck at war?

In all fairness to russia, how many coalition forces have been killed by friendly fire in the middle east ? . and im not even going to go into how many in vietnam or the desert storm.

i dont think anybody is really immune from this sort of stuff are they ?

Im curious as to how their planes were downed.By their anti-aircraft ground units(army)or friendly aircraft?

Originally posted by AgentX09
Im curious as to how their planes were downed.By their anti-aircraft ground units(army)or friendly aircraft?

I would imagine it was ground fire (guns/SAMs)

reply to post by Popeye


As for friendly fire, yes US does suffer friendly fire casualties. What military doesn't? But the rate is much smaller in US. Russia's war with Georgia was short and they lost 6 planes? How many did US lose in that same timeframe and scenario?

It would be quite funny Russia trying to be the police of the world. Almost every country they would fight is equipped with Russian hardware...

"Hey, is that Petrov?"... "Gimme binoculars"... "Could be. Its a SU-27"... "Wait different markings. Oh sh"...

Ground warfare might be even easier to get friendly fire. Both sides would be using the same AK-47. At least with US, they can semi-rely on the sound of gunfire to know where the attack is coming from.

Every force engaged in combat has suffered some degree of fratercide.

Its not unique to the Russian Air Force by a long margin, but on a historical note, when they downed F Gary Powers U-2 over Russia they also shot down a few of thier own as well that day.

reply to post by FredT


Really? I was unaware of that. Details?

I heard a rumor (from a russian border guard captain) that some of the S2A fractisides had georgian born, Russian AA officers involved and that some people are being investigated for a treason / murder charge..

Originally posted by northwolf
I heard a rumor (from a russian border guard captain) that some of the S2A fractisides had georgian born, Russian AA officers involved and that some people are being investigated for a treason / murder charge..

Now that would make sense and kudos for defending their homeland.

Originally posted by AgentX09
Now that would make sense and kudos for defending their homeland.

Perhaps you could do with reading up on the reasons for the conflict before making such a rash statement.

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
wow. maybe they just suck at war? or perhaps they want everyone to underestimate them? or probably they just suck at war?

The Russians? Suck at war? This is a country who with out there help WW2 Very likely could have been won by Hitler and the Nazi's. This is a country who was so strong militarily we were in a arms race/ standoff with them for many years because they were just as powerful as us and we feared an attempt to essentially take over the world....

Granted they got a bit weaker after the colapse of the USSR but I think it is safe to say they are back on their feet...militarily speaking.

Now if it is true that The Russians shot down their own planes... That does happen. Mistakes can be made... However I do wonder of an attempt to make the Georgians look like an aggresive bunch of people and an attempt to make the Georgians appear to be in the wrong... You know, Sort of a consipracy.. Yes, I just used the C word.

I do not know, Just a few thoughts...

Take what you need and leave the rest.

peace and love

[edit on 12-7-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by djvexd
reply to post by FredT

 

Really? I was unaware of that. Details?

Due to the U-2's extreme operating altitude, Soviet attempts to intercept the plane using fighter aircraft failed. Moreover, the U-2's course was out of range of several of the nearest SAM sites, and one SAM site even failed to engage the violator since it was not on duty that day. According to the official version of the event (see below for alternative, plausible versions), the U-2 was eventually hit and brought down near Degtyarsk, Ural Region, by a salvo of fourteen SA-2 Guideline (S-75 Dvina) surface-to-air missiles. The plane's pilot, Gary Powers, successfully bailed out and parachuted to safety, although in doing so he violated his orders to destroy the aircraft were he to be shot down[citation needed]. Powers had been issued with a modified silver dollar which contained a lethal, shellfish-derived saxitoxin suicide pill, although in the event he did not use it.[5] In bailing out, he neglected to disconnect his oxygen hose and struggled with it until it broke, enabling him to separate from the aircraft. A subsequent missile salvo also hit the aircraft, further damaging it and would likely have killed Powers outright. He was captured soon after parachuting to earth in Russia.[3]

The SAM command center was unaware that the plane was destroyed for more than 30 minutes.[3] One of the Soviet Mig-19 fighters pursuing Powers was also destroyed in the missile salvo.[6] The pilot was posthumously awarded the Hero of Soviet Union[citation needed], though his death was not mentioned in the award.

en.wikipedia.org...

The rate of US friendly fire losses in the first gulf war was extremely high, but the war was only about 48 hours long.

It takes some time to sort out the fog of battle.

Training helps, but there's nothing like the real thing.

[edit on 2009/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]

I have it on good rumor that during the cold war, during the Cuban missle crises of 1962, there were a number of incidendents where there where a number of attacks on American air force facilities. Or so we thought. In my state of Minnesota on the Canadian border an attack was percieved at an air force radar facility. Keep in mind we were on hair trigger alert. An attack was percieved when an "attacker"tried to climb the fence of one our radar facilities in upper Minnesota. Guards were called, and shots were fired. The base commander had the phone in his hand to the Pentagon and he was ready to state we were under attack. That would have ment war.

More guards were sent to "the fence". More shots were fired. In a short time the culprit was identified. It was a brown bear. I assume no one asked his politics. At least he diden't have any nukes that I know of. Caution has its virtue.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


They actually do suck... only thing the Russians trust is numbers
Example

Originally posted by northwolf
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

They actually do suck... only thing the Russians trust is numbers

Example

Hey! You are forgetting about Russia's most victorious military commander:
General Winter.

Jon

Mr. Winter wasn't always a friend of the russians, check the link in my previous post

They did learn quite fast after the '30 tough

Id like to remind everyone of the patriot FF debacle in GW1 where friendlies were iirc the only confirmed kills the patriot made of "enemy" aircraft.

friendly fire always happens and the russians didnt fully plunge into the georgian war either. It was actually a limited engagement ment to test, try and compare things.