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Thousands protest in Iran, defying crackdown vow

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posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Thousands protest in Iran, defying crackdown vow


www.google.com

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Thousands of protesters streamed down avenues of the capital Thursday, chanting "death to the dictator" and defying security forces who fired tear gas and charged with batons, witnesses said. The first opposition foray into the streets in 11 days aimed to revive mass demonstrations that were crushed in Iran's postelection turmoil.

Iranian authorities had promised tough action to prevent the marches, which supporters of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi have been planning for days in Internet messages. Heavy police forces deployed at key points in the city ahead
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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No more words needed.....

www.google.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 9-7-2009 by john124]


 

Mod Note: One Line and Short Posts – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

 


Mod Note (This Appears On Every New Thread/Post Reply Page): MEMBERS: Do not simply post news articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of current events, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item.

Mod Note: Starting A New Thread – Please Review Link

[edit on 7/10/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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An amazing thing, the human brain. Capable of understanding incredibly complex and intricate concepts. Yet at times unable to recognize the obvious and simple. ~ Jay Abraham


The National Endowment for Democracy

One mechanism by which the U.S. interferes in the internal political affairs of other nations is the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a quasi-governmental agency with funding from both Congress and private individuals whose purpose is to support foreign organizations sympathetic to U.S. foreign policy goals.

NED’s website states that its creation in the early 1980s was “premised on the idea that American assistance on behalf of democracy efforts abroad would be good both for the U.S. and for those struggling around the world for freedom and self-government.”[2]

The idea behind NED was to create an organization to do overtly what the CIA had long been doing clandestinely, and the organization has developed its own history of foreign interference. “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA,” acknowledged Allen Weinstein, one of NED’s founders.[3]

In Nicaragua, for instance, the CIA provoked opposition activities in the hopes that it would prompt an “overreaction” from the Sandinista government. The NED was there, also, providing money to opposition groups while the CIA armed contra terrorists (using money from the sale of arms to Iran, incidentally).[4]

In the Bulgarian elections of 1990, NED spent over $1.5 million in an effort to defeat the Bulgarian Socialist Party (BSP). When the effort failed and the BSP won, NED backed opposition groups that sowed chaos in the streets for months until the president and prime minister finally resigned. [5]

The NED was in Albania supporting the opposition to the communist government that was elected in 1991. Once again, turmoil in the streets led to the collapse of the government, forcing a new election in which the U.S.-backed Democratic Party won.[6]

Between 1990 and 1992, NED financed the Cuban-American National Foundation, an anti-Castro group out of Miami that in turn funded Luis Posada Carriles, a terrorist harbored by the U.S. who was responsible for the bombing of a Cuban airliner in 1976 that killed 73 people.[7]

NED was present in Mongolia helping to unite opposition parties under the National Democratic Union to defeat the Mongolian People’s Revolutionary Party that had won elections in 1992. With backing from NED, the NDU won in 1996 and U.S. media lauded the economic “shock-therapy” that the new pro-West government would implement. Under the new government, the National Security Agency (NSA) also set up shop with listening posts to spy on China. [8]

During the Clinton administration, NED was in Haiti working with the opposition to ousted president Jean-Bertrand Aristide.[9]

And NED was in Venezuela financing the opposition to President Hugo Chavez, including groups involved in the attempted coup in 2002 that nearly succeeded in his overthrow.[10]

NED is also active in Iran, granting hundreds of thousands of dollars to Iranian groups. From 2005 to 2007, NED gave $345,000 to the Abdorrahman Boroumand Foundation (ABF).[11] The group claims “no political affiliation” on its website, but is named for the founder of the National Movement of the Iranian Resistance (NAMIR), an opposition group to the clerical regime founded in 1980. According to the group’s website, Boroumand was murdered by agents of the Iranian government in Paris, France, in 1991.[12] The website is registered to the Boroumand Foundation, listed at Suite 357, 3220 N ST., NW, Washington, D.C.[13]

Another recipient of NED grants is the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), which received $25,000 in 2002, $64,000 in 2005, and $107,000 in 2006. The 2002 grant was to carry out a “media training workshop” to train participants representing various civic groups in public relations. The 2005 money was given in part to “strengthen the capacity of civic organizations in Iran”, including by advising Iranian groups on “foreign donor relations.” The 2006 grant was similarly designed to “foster cooperation between Iranian NGOs and the international civil society community and to strengthen the institutional capacity of NGOs in Iran.”[14]

The group’s president is Dr. Trita Parsi, whose parents fled political repression in Iran when he was four. He studied for his Doctoral thesis at the Johns Hopkins’ School for Advanced International Studies under Professor Francis Fukuyama.[15]

Fukuyama wrote in 2007 that “Ahmadinejad may be the new Hitler”, but that the use of military force against Iran “looks very unappealing”, and that airstrikes “would not result in regime change”, which was “the only long-term means of stopping” Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program.[16] The NIAC similarly opposes the use of military force against Iran, and instead “supports the idea of resolving the problems between the US and Iran through dialogue in order to avoid war.”[17]

Following the Iranian election and subsequent violence, NIAC issued a statement saying that “The only plausible way to end the violence is for new elections to be held with independent monitors ensuring its fairness.”[18]

Last November, the Iranian ambassador to the United Nations Mohammad-Javad Zarif charged the U.S. with attempting to orchestrate a “velvet revolution” in Iran. One of the means by which this was being carried out, he said, was by means of workshops. “American officials have been inviting Iranian figures to so-called scientific seminars over the past few years”, he said. “However, when the Iranians attend these sessions, they realize they have gathered to discuss measures to topple the Iranian government”.[19]

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...






posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Tear gas fired at Iranian protesters







[edit on 9-7-2009 by Sestias]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Another one from Iran:




[edit on 9-7-2009 by Sestias]

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Sestias]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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A former member of Ansar-e-Hezbollah has been moved by the militia’s violence against Iranians this past month, and published the names and phone numbers of about a dozen militia members he personally knew after seeing them in photos and videos engaging in attacks.


On his well-regarded Persian-language blog, he has listed the names and phone numbers of about a dozen militia members whom he has spotted in photos and video of the demonstrations over his homeland's disputed presidential election.

One of them rang him up in a tizzy. "This is unethical," his onetime friend told him.

Ebrahimi was flabbergasted. "You're killing people," he said. "Isn't that more unethical?"


Iranian exile speaks out against militia he once supported

EXILE-RESISTANCE IN IRAN

His Blog

Wikipedia Entry

[edit on 7/9/09 by makeitso]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Iran is a Theocratic Republic. These people are carrying out annoying and illegal protests. If they do not agree with how the country is ran they can leave (that's the good thing about it). It's like Americans trying to install dictatorship in America, its not in the constitution. They grew up in this Theocratic Republic, what made them have a change of heart and why do they insist on disobeying their constitution? I know us Americans are not used to other countries that are not Democratic, but Iran's government is just like America's in a more transparent sense. Before you attack me as a 'cruel monster', absorb my words properly. I want the best for these people, but before I formulated my opinion I asked, how would this equate in my country? I would sure not want America to change from a Republic/Democratic to a Dictatorship. Also, I believe all systems of government should thrive if they fully support the Geneva Convention -- and looking pass the flaws in EVERY government, Iran does treat its people well and in accordance with the Geneva Convention. So, if you do not like the Theocratic Republic of Iran, you are free to leave. These protesters should adhere to the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran, without order there is no civilisation.

Besides that, I see CIA/Mossad fingerprints all over this... as usual.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by ElloAll
Iran is a Theocratic Republic. These people are carrying out annoying and illegal protests. If they do not agree with how the country is ran they can leave (that's the good thing about it).



It's like Americans trying to install dictatorship in America, its not in the constitution. They grew up in this Theocratic Republic, what made them have a change of heart and why do they insist on disobeying their constitution? I know us Americans are not used to other countries that are not Democratic, but Iran's government is just like America's in a more transparent sense.


You simply have no idea what you're talking about. The regime are even breaking their own Islamic rules, the government is illegally in power. I doubt you can make any comparisons between Iran and the US right now that are accurate.

They can't just leave?!! That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard anyone say. They have lives, jobs, family etc. If they tried to leave by plane or boat they could be arrested if the regime sees fit to arrest them. Do you expect the women and children to hike over the mountains to Turkey!!

You are a prime example of someone who hasn't even thought about this looking at any evidence or facts of the matter. You think you are so bright that you can figure it all out in your head, when in actual fact you just made yourself look a complete idiot!


Before you attack me as a 'cruel monster', absorb my words properly. I want the best for these people, but before I formulated my opinion I asked, how would this equate in my country? I would sure not want America to change from a Republic/Democratic to a Dictatorship. Also, I believe all systems of government should thrive if they fully support the Geneva Convention -- and looking pass the flaws in EVERY government, Iran does treat its people well and in accordance with the Geneva Convention. So, if you do not like the Theocratic Republic of Iran, you are free to leave. These protesters should adhere to the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran, without order there is no civilisation.

Besides that, I see CIA/Mossad fingerprints all over this... as usual.


I don't think you have bad intentions, just a little mis-guided that's all. So many people have fleed from Iran in the past as they have spoken out about the brutality of the regime and have had to flee to save their own lives. Iranian dissidents are often hunted down abroad. They can never go back otherwise they'd get arrested and tortured, and even worse - executed.

The brutality has been common-place since 1979, and you can't dispute the violence and murders are taking placing indiscrimantantly in the past 4 weeks with all the videos and photos that have been seen.

Anyway your last paragraph is absolute rubbish. You persist about Iranian's having the choice to leave. Where are they supposed to go? They voted in what they hoped would be a fair election, which the regime cheated and broke their own Islamic codes of conduct by murdering innocent people.

The regime has no legitimacy at all, so you cannot expect any of the morals we hold high such as the Geneva convention to be followed. Maybe the regime are the one's who should get up and leave Iran! The Iranian people should be free to run their own country as they wish, they didn't vote for this regime and Ahmadinejad.

In fact your post and reference to the regime treating it's people well is insulting to anyone with an intelligence and all Iranians as well.

And correction to your "vision" of CIA fingerprints. What you actually mean you suspect this without seeing any evidence of it, and you feel it beyond you to actually see what is going on from the evidence that is available, because you have already made up your mind that all evidence that contradicts your beliefs must be falsified. And so you just accept what you have made up in your own mind without any evidence at all must be true.

And let me add, can you for once in your life just look at a situation without having to compare it to the USA. The world is much bigger than the US, and you need to get your head out of your ass, and see the world for what it is, and every country without jumping to any conclusions at all... just look at the real evidence. The whole world is not some play-thing of the US. Things do happen without the USA you know, and the world does go round without you guys.

Way to go man!.... you just expect all Iranian's who protest to just up and leave and think the regime would just let them all go in their millions. And you even say "that's the good thing about it". What exactly is the good thing about this situation? Please enlighten me?


[edit on 9-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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Its almost a War between the people and the Govt, they better be careful cause Ive seen worse happen to speeders.
And that is not US propaganda, thats American perspecetive of all this. Pretty soon they will roll out the tanks and push their way around.
Why dont they just hold another election, all this crap could be avoided.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by john124
 




They can't just leave?!! That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard anyone say. They have lives, jobs, family etc. If they tried to leave by plane or boat they could be arrested if the regime sees fit to arrest them. Do you expect the women and children to hike over the mountains to Turkey!!


thats exactly how they do it.
Bus or Train is the better means, yes they are stopped and searched, but the militia are looking for Kurdish fighters.

once your in Turkey, thats when the problems begin. Because the police will arrest you and send you back, with a big sign saying

'' they fled Iran ''

Most of them go over and claim to be Baha'is.
There's a bahai leader in the US who writes letters/statements informing the immigration people that indeed these people are well known bahai members in Iran (most of the time they arent), and if they are sent back they will be sent to prison and punished, there'fore under UN rules they must be granted refugee status.


You are right though,
Every Iranian has the choice to leave, but they have family and friends and remain.
But some do leave all this behind when there lives are in danger, or when they believe there's a better life out there.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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I frankly would be amazed if a genuine protest of any magnitude took place in Iran today.

There are no credible videos or pictures identifying this latest round of Western inspired and authored propoganda as actually happening.

It's more entertainment for the bread and circuses loving masses here in the United States and the West, designed to distract us and make us more tolerant over the dictatorships we live in by fictionalizing others as being worse and worthy of our primary concern.

I sometimes don't know if Americans have their head in the sand, up their rear ends, or in Disneyland.

Number one growing job in the recession/depression seems to be propoganda to me!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I frankly would be amazed if a genuine protest of any magnitude took place in Iran today.

There are no credible videos or pictures identifying this latest round of Western inspired and authored propoganda as actually happening.

It's more entertainment for the bread and circuses loving masses here in the United States and the West, designed to distract us and make us more tolerant over the dictatorships we live in by fictionalizing others as being worse and worthy of our primary concern.

I sometimes don't know if Americans have their head in the sand, up their rear ends, or in Disneyland.

Number one growing job in the recession/depression seems to be propoganda to me!


Really? Has it got that bad in the states!? Didn't know you had tear-gas thrown onto packed buses. Snipers picking you out on the streets, militias chasing you with clubs and axes.


I think it's more how Fox portrays Iran as it being entertainment. But that doesn't mean it's just all a big lie, even if it gets exaggerated. There is plenty of truth to the indiscriminate extreme brutality going on in Iran by the regime.

Do you think the BBC broadcast propaganda for the Jews?

If you do, can you explain why nothing was even mentioned on today's 10'O clock news last night about Iran... not one sentence?

The whole propaganda accusations towards western media, especially the BBC seem to fall flat on their face when you actually think about it.

They were too busy talking about another scandal involvement News of the World and phone tapping.


If anything this is distracting us from issues in Iran, rather than issues of Iran being used as the distraction.


[edit on 9-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


John you are free to believe what you want to believe. You are free to purport what you want to purport.

Snipers in the street? Sure there are...crowds? What crowds there isn't even a picture. BBC not touching it? I wound't either after their network of dubious sources and dubious captions led the Iranians to wisely arrest a number of the instigators in the Brittish Embassy.

It is in fact some well intentioned but otherwise fools who have purported what is going on in Iran with the flimisiest of evidence to back it up has nothing to do with what is really going on in Iran which is nothing more than rival politicians playing dirty politics and the unemployed youth being manipulated into claiming false reports by way of computers because they innocently and stupidly think it somehow helps what is nothing but people suffering an economic crisis like so much of the world is, that want real jobs.

All this other stuff Westnerners read into it for the sake of their own propoganda agendas and agendas at large is just pure fiction and base manipulation, but hey like I said, if you want to fall for it, you go right ahead.

This silliness of everyone should ignore every serious problem domestically because their are more serious problems internationally is just what keeps the world in a pitiful state, it's ok for Israel to bomb innocent Palestinians because the Saudis stone homosexuals and the Israelis bugger them instead.

Such silliness, clean up your own back yard first John, when you have it all in order, worry about the next guys.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by john124
 


John you are free to believe what you want to believe. You are free to purport what you want to purport.


Let me put this to you... there is more evidence to suggest what I'm saying, that what you are saying.


Snipers in the street? Sure there are...crowds? What crowds there isn't even a picture. BBC not touching it? I wound't either after their network of dubious sources and dubious captions led the Iranians to wisely arrest a number of the instigators in the Brittish Embassy.


There are videos of this after doing a brief search. The BBC aren't the be's and end all of world news. You're making accusations that British Embassy Iranian staff were anything more than peaceful protestors caught up in the middle. You don't have any evidence at all for that, the regime tortures people for false confessions. When you see how often that occurs you know that is likely. Unless the regime have decided to place nice and stop lying just for you........... I think I'll stick with the precedent they have set, rather than making any wild assumptions like yourself.

You come up some unevidenced conclusions as to why the BBC didn't mention this news story, whilst at the same time trying to accuse others of not having evidence, when in actual fact there is evidence of beatings, shootings and protesting.

There are plenty of videos displaying snipers picking off members of the crowd, and hospital staff reporting gunshot wounds from an angle that would be from above. I didn't say this was today specifically, if you read what I put, I was just saying this is what has been happening, and so implying this happened over the past 4 weeks.


It is in fact some well intentioned but otherwise fools who have purported what is going on in Iran with the flimisiest of evidence to back it up has nothing to do with what is really going on in Iran which is nothing more than rival politicians playing dirty politics and the unemployed youth being manipulated into claiming false reports by way of computers because they innocently and stupidly think it somehow helps what is nothing but people suffering an economic crisis like so much of the world is, that want real jobs.


You know the only person you are relying on for evidence is your own wild assumption and beliefs. How can you even complain about the lack of evidence for any alternate viewpoints? When we have anecdotal, video, photo evidence, which at least implies I am correct more than you are correct.

If the mainstream don't report you have a made up reason why, if they do report you have a convenient made up reason why to fit your beliefs. To people like you, either the media are avoiding it for their benefit or talking about it as propaganda or lies. If you have a such closed-minded approach then will just keep bouncing along in your own absudity.


All this other stuff Westnerners read into it for the sake of their own propoganda agendas and agendas at large is just pure fiction and base manipulation, but hey like I said, if you want to fall for it, you go right ahead.


Funnily enough I have more than just the media to prove to me what is going on, and Iranian's there on the ground and in Britain can confirm what is correct and isn't.

What are you basing your accusations of western propaganda on, except an opinion, and your own opinion alone thought of yourself, without any evidence, let alone anyone that can confirm this to you. Whether anyone else believes me or not, you don't even have anything more than suggestion to influence what you are saying. How can you convince yourself of your beliefs???? Are you just delusional?!


This silliness of everyone should ignore every serious problem domestically because their are more serious problems internationally is just what keeps the world in a pitiful state, it's ok for Israel to bomb innocent Palestinians because the Saudis stone homosexuals and the Israelis bugger them instead.


I don't recall anything being ignored domestically over here. Both are important, although Michael Jackson is not.


And I don't agree with the rest you said there. Israel did not bomb any innocent civilians today or yesterday. Why would the news spend time talking about something that didn't happen.

Oh wait.... you wanting the news to talk propaganda and lies, whilst criticising the media for apparently doing this, when the BBC didn't actually report much on Iran.

Hmmm, oh wait you just made up that the reason for this is because the BBC or British govt. are intimidated by the regime?!! Yes you did imply that. You see the ludicrousy of your beliefs that you just make up on the spot to fit your pre-determined mindset.



Such silliness, clean up your own back yard first John, when you have it all in order, worry about the next guys.


Nah, the silliness is spread out in waves from your keyboard. The onus is on you to provide any form of evidence of western propaganda and influence in Iran that the regime is accusing the west of.

I have yet to see any evidence of propaganda from the west. We get daily updates of regime propaganda from Iran. And last of all there is undeniable video and photo, and anecdotal evidence that the regime have been illegally brutalising Iranian people over the past 4 weeks.

Even if we were to assume the logistics and capability of the CIA allows this level of fraudent activity to take place, Iranian's I know well have said this kind of protesting and a brutal crackdown of this sort would likely happen after they declared Ahmadinejad the winner on the election night. As we all knew most people had voted for Mousavi.

And please do more than take 1 or 2 sentences out of context and whilst throwing some anti-Israeli comments as proof of CIA involvement. That would just be proof of your inability to try and put together a reasonable argument for what your beliefs state.

Or are you just going to stick with your main silly argument of "no no you're all lying, your friends are lying, every video & photo is not real, the govt. faked it all, and the media is lying to you with its propaganda".

You do not even realise with your strict closed mind that even when a real event takes place, you automatically assume it's faked.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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Just some more about what I said here:


Iranian's I know well have said this kind of protesting and a brutal crackdown of this sort would likely happen after they declared Ahmadinejad the winner on the election night. As we all knew most people had voted for Mousavi.


So, if you know the regime well you realise that you don't even need CIA involvement for anger and resentment towards Khamenei by Iranian's. There is not one piece of logic that states the CIA had to get involved, and not one shred of evidence.

You may cry the usual stuff like the govt. is always up to no good, and then go off topic about anti-Israel stuff. But that just shows you don't have anything useful to add to your viewpoint except showing to us all that don't need evidence to believe in what you believe. You just believe it because you want to.

And you're so cynical and judgemental towards western media that you assume everything they say has an agenda. That's quite a complex system you're saying exists within news media. Yes they can be corrupt, look at News of the world in the UK and other newspapers who all dip their fingers into illegal methods like phone tapping, but they get caught.

Human's ain't perfect, and you would expect the evidence for BBC propaganda to surface. It's much the same with all conspiracy theories. The whistleblowers and anecdotal evidences surfaces for ufos/aliens therefore has at least some credibility, but for every other consipiracy theory, not one has yet surfaced.

Don't you find that a bit fishy, knowing that human beings get caught for stuff, and yet manage to keep your conspiracy theory secret with 100% efficiency on silence. That's just impossible!

And again I refer back to the only conspiracy theory that hasn't been kept quiet - Roswell. So yeahhhhhh aliens crashing in the desert is more likely than your bogus theories on BBC pro-Israeli propaganda and the utter bullcrap you spout.

Therefore you lack any credibility, and if you keep declaring that you don't see concrete proof of protests and shootings in Iran, then you're a hypocrite because you don't have any evidence at all of your beliefs.

As I stated earlier, you haven't even given the reasons why you believe it except apparently showing hate and distaste towards Israel and the US govt. as a permanent mindset that you refuse to alter, and so you blame them for Iran's problems, which have been caused by the regime treating it's own people badly for too long.


[edit on 10-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by john124

If you know the regime well you realise that you don't even need CIA involvement for anger and resentment towards Khamenei by Iranian's. There is not one piece of logic that states the CIA had to get involved, and not one shred of evidence.


funny how people with pre-determined mindsets and opinions will simply cry out loud that there is "not one shred of evidence" (of NED/American involvement) when there are plenty of sources showing that, even in this thread provided. And those who does not see the "logic" behind American involvement's motive is merely turning a blind eye.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by yiersan

Originally posted by john124

If you know the regime well you realise that you don't even need CIA involvement for anger and resentment towards Khamenei by Iranian's. There is not one piece of logic that states the CIA had to get involved, and not one shred of evidence.


funny how people with pre-determined mindsets and opinions will simply cry out loud that there is "not one shred of evidence" (of NED/American involvement) when there are plenty of sources showing that, even in this thread provided. And those who does not see the "logic" behind American involvement's motive is merely turning a blind eye.


Hang on a minute, please explain your logic and I'll explain mine here.

It's not a pre-determined mindset to know Iranian's hate this regime. They have done for ages. I have known Iranian's who hate it and many of their friends and family and collegues do as well.

Therefore why would the US have to get involved in this matter where the regime are already hated. And there are zero videos confirming any US interference in Iran on youtube during the protests. The regime are provoking it's own people on its own. In essence they are the problem that is self-created.

US involvement would only push the people back towards the regime. But the people are turning further away from them altogether. If the US is involved then how can this be happening? People are too scared to protest in the same numbers, but they show solidarity by honking horns, and shouting on rooftops at night, confusing the regime by painting their doors red so the basij don't remember which one's they targetted.

And this week during a televised interview with Ahmadinejad on state tv there was a planned mass switch on of irons and other appliances in people's homes. This led to a power cut as the grid overloaded. This was planned and so the regime thought it would happen and so took a generator for backup. And it shows so many Iranian's hate him, as it would take a significant number to participate.

I know this from personal sources who I can personally trust. Do you have anything more than regime officials to trust who are spreading their propaganda? I don't just believe what you call western propaganda. You could just accuse I'm doing the same if I was, but I'm not... I have other sources of my own.

If you distrust the US govt. so much you may trust an Islamic govts. word over theirs, that's your choice..... but I'm doing neither.

Also can you explain why the revolution is taking this long if the protestors have outside help, as they don't appear to be achieving anything more than they can achieve on their own. There is not one protestor who has said they have outside help. The only evidence for this comes from the regime, who have been known to torture people for false confessions since 1979. I'm not the one making any pre-suppostions.

So we can see that the regime have been known to use propaganda for years and continues to do so now. Therefore this does not constitute as accurate evidence if you use this propaganda as your evidence. The regime is just operating as it always has. The regime does not provide any evidence to the UN do they about everything they go on about?

They have so many confessions supposedly and no evidence to show the UN? Yeahhhhrrr right..... I think we know that's all baloney! They just blow hot air much like yourself, but over a bunch of false confessions. And you blow hot air from some presstv made up bullcrap. As someone put it - the regime could get a confession out of a stone.

I knew the world was becoming dumbed down with idiots, but I expect people to at least make an attempt to show that they're not fools.

And might I add the evidence in favour of non-US involvement in this thread and everywhere else far outweighs any evidence of US involvement by a gigantic factor. You are just turning a blind eye to that, and the fact that your evidence is bad-evidence.


[edit on 10-7-2009 by john124]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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It's interesting how the deniers of events in Iran from the perspective of this thread's source just disappear whenever they are asked anything remotely challenging to them.

And besides, these true believers don’t live in an evidence-based world. They live in fantasy; it’s the only way they can be shown solid proof their claims are wrong and yet still cleave to them.

You really need to examine your internal criteria for accepting evidence.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by john124]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by john124
 


actually there is a silent campaign on ATS to ignore posts that are simply bait to entice arguments after evidence has been given to refute the OP




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