What Recovery? The Dearth of Consumers and Jobs

Some brand of protectionism and isolationism is the absolute only thing that will ever save us (US, UK, Australia, and so on). Period. And even that will not be fast or comfortable...we've lost too much of our self-sufficiency for it to be. New economic and trade rules, less we-are-the-world nonsense, a prime directive of nations. Tying to play on and mess with things on a global scale simply doesn't work if things are falling apart at home. Seriously. It's time for a long time out for everyone. There. I said it.


[edit on 10-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

Can you suggest a viable solution? It's not hard to notice the problems around us...far more difficult to find a solution and try improve the situation. However, I doubt you want things to get better, do you? You much prefer to go out of your way to show just how bad things are.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Some brand of protectionism and isolationism is the absolute only thing that will ever save us (US, UK, Australia, and so on).

Now that you bring that point. . .

Remember you all, when Obama stimulus was to be passed? remember the stipulations of for America only clause.

Remember the nation that Barked the most and said that will retaliate against us with blocking US imports and putting a complain against the US with the corrupted WTO.

Yes China, one of the biggest countries that engage not only in deceiving practices but also protectionism and no even once US has won a grievance against them with the corrupted WTO.

Yes protectionism only works as long as India and China.

No country should be allowed to "play" on the global field if their people are suffering or they refuse to take care of their own messes first...the U.S. included.

That might seem backwards...until you really think about it. Do we want the state of the world brought up to a higher standard for ALL or down to the lowest common denom? Why should countries who fail be allowed to take from those who worked hard to succeed? Success that burdens others or hurts others is not success at all...it's and illusion and a temporary one at that.

As examples, China and India are too primitive, too dirty, and too big to be allowed to play...and we're seeing the result of that every day. Whether culturally, economically, or for whatever root causes, they allowed squalor and inequality to fester in their countries. They needed to fix that first, not spread it. And then for them to have been "allowed" to lower the standard for those in nations who had planning and forethought and hard work all along? Not right.

There's a HUGE difference between helping and encouragin on a humanitarian and teaching level and giving the store away. But of course the greedy few at the top of ALL the nations sure don't see it that way, do they?


[edit on 10-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

China and India are too primitive, too dirty, and too big to be allowed to play...

Heaven forbid another country, worse ye,t one with a culture and way of life which you consider to be "dirty" and "primitve" grow economically.

China and India are fast overtaking the West economically , you see they are working hard to make consumers out of themselves. Their growing middle classes also want TVs and new cars and they are starting to be able to afford to buy them.

Do yourself a favour and go on a trip to somewhere other then your own obviously fenced in back yard and see some of that "dirty" and "primitve" world out there. I think you'll see that your own backyard is no paradise.

reply to post by Merigold


they didn't "take over." they never could have had it not been handed to them. pick on my fast choice of words all you want. facts are facts. they (their alleged leaders) allowed their countries to get into the states they were in and they pulled themselves up at the expense of others. that's not a win win. that's war. dirty. and that's why some countries are losing.

losing because they didn't see it because they were bedazzled by exactly what you speak of these people are getting now. losing because they didn't see it coming. and guess what? that high level these countries are aspiring too and finally achieving at someone else's expense? that isn't all that prevalent and it isn't going to last either. they're merely the newest pawns in someone else's game.

as for your assumptions about my traveling? try again.



[edit on 10-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by Merigold


Thanks to globalization and the American corporate greed at the expenses of American industrial base, yes China and India are now in the phase of what US used to be during the industrial boom.

They depend on exports but very soon as the insatiable consumerism of the US is now been cut by the economic down turn they will start to become self sufficient like the US was during the industrial boom.

People tend to over estimate China and India I give them more credit that people think they deserve.





[edit on 10-7-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by Merigold


and a direct question to you. you have no problems with people gaining at other people's expense? to the detriment of others? are you a capitalist? where are you coming from on the REAL issue here?

The problems we face as a nation are far too clear to be allowed to be confused with nonsensical and prideful assertions relating to some vague notion of 'material' worth that only has relevance to the financial monster that is the well spring of all our problems.

The reason for the economic decay around the globe and most notably for Americans is the upsurge in the presence of transnational corporate interests in the body politic and their ability to virtually monopolize policy in government.

When transnational commerce is more important than anything else, national self-sufficiency WILL fall by the wayside. And the media, owned by those same transnational interests, are no strangers to the practice of basely portraying reality as something that suits their agenda.

The problem of this planet in terms of economic and social engineering is quite simply the Uniform Commercial Code and it's attendant cabal of globalists who's primary (if not only) concern is the eventual establishment of a permanent revenue control model. They seemingly function under the guidance of the supranational bank cartel, represented in many countries by the likes of the International Monetary Fund, International Settlement Bank, World Trade Organization, United Nations, and other less scrupulous (if that's possible) field operatives like the Fed, the Bank of London, Goldman Sachs (which is just another way of saying the Fed) etc.

In the US we are facing a new and hitherto fantasy scenario of social and economic decay. The reason we are so discombobulated by it is because the educational propaganda most of us were indoctrinated with by Madison Avenue and Hollywood conditioned us to think 'it could never happen here.'

Silly geese. It happens because those in control of monetary policy around the globe WANT it to happen.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Maxmars]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Maxmars]

Remember when Ronald Reagan and his voodoo economics? Remember how he made the conservative heartland feel good about union busting?

Remember Bill Clinton telling us globalization was inevitable and good for America? Remember when he signed those trade agreements? Suddenly corporate America started chasing cheap labor around the globe with the support of the bubble heads that still think you can get something for nothing?

Well the jobs are for the most part gone now and the middle class is dwindling fast.

The fact is TPTB that Eisenhower tried to warn us about have decided to close Casino America. Why you ask? Because they have all of our money now!! They have accomplished what they set out to do (maximize profit) including taking our good paying jobs to a labor market where they can pay a nickel an hour.

The Casino is closed folks TPTB have moved on to greener pastures. It's just a matter of time before the majority realize what they did to our country. Obama talks nice he's going to baby talk America into the grave.

wait till the 500,000 people a month that have been losing their jobs....run out of extended unemployment benefits.......

most are not finding jobs...............some have others to lean on .....some dont

civil unrest will be building........violence and laws will be broke in order to get basic needs met

i would guess this would begin in california first (on a wide spread basis)?

hopefully more shelters can be open......and people will give what they can to these shelters (food and donations)

I really pray that camps are not designed and waiting to house these people as potential domestic terrorists...........

Originally posted by mrpotatohead
Possibly the closing of a major bank.

In the first 6 months of 2009 the FDIC seized 52 banks.

On July 2nd 7 were seized on the same DAY !

As of 31 MAR 2009, 247 banks are in the RED ZONE.

Bankimplode's unofficial list of troubled banks

We got 100's of trillions in derivatives set to collapse.

100's of trillions in derivatives set to collapse

And this was all setup by design.

There isn't that much money in the world !

If every nation on earth pooled there money it wouldn't be that much.

We are about to see the largest ponzi scheme in history occur.

Mad(e)off will be small change.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by cpdaman
hopefully more shelters can be open......

LOL, shelters !!

We got 19 million houses standing empty and the current plan is to
start bull dozing them to get tax revenues back up by making property
values go back up !!!!

The bulldozers are rolling coast 2 coast

OMG !!! Shelters !!!

They are running ppl off from tent cities because they cannot prove
they had a house there and paid bills at one time !!!!

Oklahoma City, one of the areas hit the least by all this admits
that we have THOUSANDS of homeless just here in the metro.

The entire damn state only has 3.6 million ppl !!!!

Thousands of homeless in Oklahoma City

They absolutely do not give a damn, and the really bad part is
just around the corner.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by Merigold

China and India are too primitive, too dirty, and too big to be allowed to play...

Heaven forbid another country, worse ye,t one with a culture and way of life which you consider to be "dirty" and "primitve" grow economically.

China and India are fast overtaking the West economically , you see they are working hard to make consumers out of themselves. Their growing middle classes also want TVs and new cars and they are starting to be able to afford to buy them.

I think you will find a large part of the economic boom in China is
because they ship goods to the US and other parts of the world.

I think you will find a lot of call centers were closed in the US
and reopened in India, and the ppl that call them on tech support
issues, and other issues are americans.

When the americans stop calling, and stop buying we ALL are in
for a LITTLE surprise.

This will trickle over into Europe as well as we buy wine from there,
beer from there, and other goods.

When the house of cards folds, you will see a domino effect ripple
around the globe due to the giant global ponzi scheme.

if you check my other posts of the past few days you will see
what the plan is, and how it will play out.

It is now even in print in the mainstream as I have provided the
links in other posts.

Our days are numbered and it is in print over at marketwatch.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


good links and posts

solid contribution

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

 

good links and posts

solid contribution

Thanks, your posts as far as I can remember are always spot on !

All I wish to achieve is to give ppl a chance to get ready.

Originally posted by BostonBill99
S & F

The charts are very telling. I prefer a chart to figures any day...it gives a better representation of what's really happening over time.

I have to agree, the naivete of the masses never ceases to amaze me. To this day, in my regular conversations with neighbors and friends, I still hear "Well, the stock marked closed higher today, so the worst is over! Happy days are here again!". Moronic..... Is is that they truly don't have a grip on reality, or is it that they're are scared to death of reality, and don't want to face it?

Super research! Congrats.

Bill, that chart is the only one that actually shows improving fundamentals. The American people are shrinking their debt instead of having it grow larger. This is positive in my book. Also if you look at the other charts we are talking decreases of a few percent for most. The log of the charts makes it look like it is much worse than it really is. Despite it all, 26% of the people are better off than they were last year.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Despite it all, 26% of the people are better off than they were last year.

is this a glass half full thing?

what about the other 74%?

"JOBS" are just over broke

... the way the country wants it to be so that 95% of Americans make only 5% of the nations money...


go out there and get your piece of the pie, no matter what. get away from 9-5ism... dont be the govnts sheeple

reply to post by Leo Strauss


i remember. i was there. i did the business cases that showed the "cheap labor" to not be as "cheap" as touted. but the bean counters and execs looked at one thing...the hourly rate. well that's changing now too...costs in india are getting a tad steeper. once you get a taste of the green.... and what you said too. no calls to the call centers, no products to sell. geez you'd think they'd sell more to their own, eh? there are billions of them....