I Don't Want To Shoot To Kill

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:57 AM
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If the SHTF, which I dont think it will. We have decided to just pack up and go bush. No if buts or maybe's. We will take some seeds for crops of food, and the other necessities, but, we will leave to avoid having to make that decision.... We hope!




posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by jd140
Someone threatens my family with violence I will shoot them right between the eyes and not lose any sleep over it.

Same here, but never the less I would try to avoid such a confrontation if at all possible. The bad thing about all this is, if the SHTF, I don't think any of us, no matter how armed we are, would be able to fend off an attacking gang.

If and when the SHTF, there won't be individuals roaming around looking to take your wife and your food, there will be gangs of them. And, it's unlikely they will come up and ring your door bell. More likely, they will attack from the front, back, and sides of your home. You'll be overwhelmed. And, in the event you have someone able to cover every angle, what will you do when they toss a molotov cocktail at your house and set it ablaze? They will slaughter you as you come running out of your home.

The best bet is to simply bugout to some isolated well hidden location, in the middle of some vast forest, or out in the middle of some field where you have a 360 degree view. Or an island in the middle of a lake. Or at the top of some mountain.

When the SHTF, those holding up in their homes will be like sitting ducks waiting for a house call!


EXCELLENT points!

Safety in numbers. Use of terrain in the defense. Obstacles, both natural and manmade. All of these are of immense help in such a scenario. The only problem is that the subject is of necessity an independent study course, as it's a bit too involved to get into here. In addition to all the above, a knowledge of small-unit tactics, fire and maneuver, and patrolling (for perimeter security, and as early warnings) are all necessary subjects as well.

Bugging out will minimize, but not entirely eliminate, possible threats. Bugging out to a retreat with like-minded individuals improves the odds. A "retreat" in the proper (well chosen beforehand) place helps with the obstacles. If the "like-minded individuals" already have training and tactics under their belt, that's another huge plus.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


Exactly what I've been attempting to say, but put much more eloquently!

I have the same problem with "how my day goes" with folks around me. What they view as massive emergencies roll right off of me, and folks tend to get exasperated because I have a differing view of what constitutes an "emergency".

They get upset that I'm not as upset as them.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Off topic here:
Sorry about that...
Those folks who have U2U'ed me (especially those in this thread), Thanks! They made my day!
I will U2U yall back just as soon as I get enough (20) posts. =)

On topic:
Hazelnut,
Where are your thoughts now on shooting to kill? (If you want to share that..) Just curious.
gb,
~pre



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by preparanoid
Off topic here:
Sorry about that...
Those folks who have U2U'ed me (especially those in this thread), Thanks! They made my day!
I will U2U yall back just as soon as I get enough (20) posts. =)

On topic:
Hazelnut,
Where are your thoughts now on shooting to kill? (If you want to share that..) Just curious.
gb,
~pre


Everyone that replied to this thread is appreciated. The majority of you believe the best way to avoid having to take another life is to avoid situations that could potentially escalate into violence.

I am convinced that we need to arm ourselves J.I.C. There was a gun show nearby last weekend. I told the hubs that I'd like to go, just to check it out, see what they are like. He agreed and we went on Sunday. It was held in a local mall that is mostly deserted except for one anchor store. We were both surprised to see how many people were there, all paying $8.00 admission each. We decided that if we were seriously ready to arm ourselves and knew what we were looking for we would go in, but since we were only "visiting out of curiosity" it wasn't worth the price to "look".

Ah well. I'm not doing a very good job of convincing him to support me on this issue. I'm guessing he doesn't think its as serious as I do. You know, me being an ATSer must make me a paranoid freak.

On our way out the door of the show, I pointed out that when something drastic does happen, we will probably be the only ones in a 10-mile radius without weapons. He said nothing. (he has a way of ignoring me when he doesn't want to talk about something, grrrrr!)

It looks like I'm gonna have to just do it and then tell him later. Buy a firearm I mean.

My fear of having to kill another person has changed (properly) to the view that its them or me. I would never go looking for trouble, but I would never back down when trouble came looking for me, so I'd better get myself on a level playing field to begin with.

Thank you everyone who responded, your thoughts and suggestions were just right, thought-provoking and honest. I'm over my pre-guilt trip!

Now I'm going back to re-read the entire thread, take notes and get myself armed properly, join the NRA and find a gun club nearby. Even if I have to do it alone.

J.I.C. is better than S.O.L.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Really Sister? Sorry that you have the husband problem. You can take him to my "The NWO IS Coming For ALL Americans Soon" Thread, look on page 5 at one of my responses and read all of the link "This ALL Ends Soon"... Ask yourself and him, how did they think we'd turn in our firearms? Kissinger is ALL OVER European press quoted saying this - google it. Ask him if he is ready to bet his families life?

[edit on 7/15/2009 by SGTChas]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by apacheman
"trust your instincts"...I'd rather trust my training. Until your training reaches instinctual levels, your instincts will get you killed.


If you're referring to my post, maybe you didn't read it carefully enough and/or took it out of context or maybe I didn't state it clearly enough.

You appear to be basing your comment strictly on the terms of firearms training and use, and mine was actually made with the assumption that there are firearms and the person is trained.

However! In any of the cases (firearms around or not, training under the belt or not) I still totally disagree that your instincts will get you killed Your instincts are there to save your life. That's what they are. And they'll save them whether you're armed or not.

So I conclude that your comment was made strictly in the realm of actually using an actually existing weapon. And then I still don't really understand it because you first say that training must and even can reach an instinctual level (highly debatable in and of itself because instincts are born over time...many generations and at the very least many, many years) and then that they will get you killed?

Many an unarmed person has used their instincts and shrewdness and unconventional weapons to survive during wartime and combat and attack.
Can we say IED?

[edit on 15-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 

If killers are not killed, then you let them live on to kill the innocent.

If you feel guilty for taking the life of someone who might take the
life of your child, then you need to think how you would feel at
your child's funeral.

Defending the innocent against violence is a just cause.

Human life has value when it lived in a valuable manner.

When human life is a parasitic piece of trash preying on the weak,
then it is time to take out the trash.

We have had all kinds of scum on the planet, from jack the ripper to
charles manson, and killing any of them I'd consider a duty !



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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The taking of a life does no one honor, Letting some one take your life does you no honor! The protection of yourself and others that cannot protect themselves is always an honorable endeavor!

Zindo



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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I don't think it will get that bad. While my husband and kids could "shoot to kill" I'll stick with my industrial-sized super powered bear spray. But, if it does happen to get bad, you could always pull a "Home Alone" and booby-trap your home and grounds.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by Snooze
I don't think it will get that bad. While my husband and kids could "shoot to kill" I'll stick with my industrial-sized super powered bear spray. But, if it does happen to get bad, you could always pull a "Home Alone" and booby-trap your home and grounds.


I wouldn't recommend booby trapping the INSIDE of your house (a la "home alone") - you gotta live there, right? A few layers outside could be useful, provided all of "yours" know where they are, and never, ever panic. Panic causes one to forget just where that trip wire IS, and can get very messy and regretful.

In a scenario such as this, bear spray (50% OC spray) is pretty useless. What are you gonna do with the bad guys once you have them in tears? Let 'em come back the next day, better prepared?

Not me. I'll leave 'em laying. They won't be returning.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut
Considering the worst could happen at any moment, I'm struggling with a personal dilemna. I don't want to shoot to kill, ever! But what if the time comes, the point of no return, and I'm not prepared to defend my family and home? I can't decide which scenario is worse. Having a weapon at my fingertips capable of taking another life or not having one.

I would like to hear from all sides of this issue. Only with enough good information will I be able to decide what I should do.

I was trained to use an M-16 in Basic Training, I fired a shotgun once and held a pistol once. I'm great at darts and archery. My only weapons for self-defense is an aluminum baseball bat and kitchen knives. (Assorted garden tools and cast-iron cooking pots too.)

If everything goes south, it will happen suddenly. If I haven't decided before then, I'm totally out of luck. This is a hard choice to make. I don't want to take another life! I just don't want to do it...but what if I have to? I don't know which is worse.


Neither do I but if you're life and liberty are at stake you're going to have to dear.
The law of the jungle is closer than people think alas...



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Than never take a knife to a gunfight. Mate, if you are serious about survival, you shall have to kill. Otherwise, you will be killed for your baseball bat and pan of beans. I am serious.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


This is an issue I have struggled with myself.

In my opinion anyone who doesn’t wrestle with the reality of ending another human life shouldn’t own a gun for self defense, so good for you.

Life is valuable. Even someone who is evil minded now may one day become someone great. But you can’t weigh that against the here and now. You and your family are already on the right path in life (presumably). So at the moment of action it comes down to you, and your family’s dreams and future vs your assailant’s possibility of one day maybe getting their life on track.

When put that way it seems clear to me that your assailant has given you only two definite options. 1. Defend your family and live, or 2. Hand over you, and your family’s lives.

Now if other people are not involved, and the sacrifice becomes your own, things become a little trickier. But even then I assume that this person is attacking me, if I leave them alive they will certainly attack someone else.

So in full I guess what I’m trying to say is this. It is up to you to defend yourself and your loved ones, and even this persons potential future victims. Remember that it is a life you are taking, and you should take no pleasure in it. But it is simply what must be done given the situation that has landed in your lap.

I am truly sorry that this is a decision that you, and everybody has to fuss over, but this is the world we live in like it or not. I hope you find some solace or guidance from this one way or the other.

Best of luck on you decision, I won’t judge you either way, it’s a very personal issue, and something every man must decide for himself. Also thanks for serving.

P.S. I also had trouble with it from a Spiritual aspect but my Bible Concordance says the word commonly translated “Kill” in the ten commandments (or Ratsach) actually means to slay, specifically murder, or assassinate. Nothing about killing as a whole, only murder (this is how I understand it was meant to be read in the original Hebrew.) If spiritual reasons had nothing to do with your decisions than just ignore this.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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For all the female gun enthusiasts in the group, here's a web sight for female owners and shooters:

Armed Females of America

For all you guys that are now cringing....Oh well, deal with it.


Zindo



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


ZindoDoone, thanks for posting this link. I probably would never have found it by myself.


Armed Females of America


our mission is to proudly represent all patriotic, strong, intelligent people who believe that…



NO-COMPROMISE means our rights and liberties are not bargained for, ever, especially when we get nothing in return. Giving something up without getting anything in return is not "compromise," it's surrender.

COMPROMISING our sovereignty, liberty, birthrights or honor is a direct slap in the face to our Forefathers' sacrifices, the Constitution, and all freedom-loving Americans.

OUR RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS is an individual, inalienable right endowed by our Creator, guaranteed by the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights, and directly supports our lives, liberties, safeties and pursuits of happiness.

A GOD GIVEN RIGHT cannot be legislated; cannot be turned into a privilege by a self-serving government who may then revoke it; cannot be judged or interpreted, and cannot be amended, added to a ballot, or repealed. OUR RIGHTS have no "loopholes." Any law restricting use, quantity owned or purchased, magazine capacity, configuration, caliber, firing operation, or age limits is unconstitutional.

REQUIRING ANY PERMITS, licenses, fingerprinting, background checks or ID cards is illegal under the Constitution. Registering guns means registering people and makes criminals of the lawful. All of the above mentioned restrictions are infringements on our rights as free Americans and we must not tolerate them any longer.

WE MUST PRESERVE and restore our rights immediately-and resist with full measure any attempt to reduce our rights with the same intensity, ferocity and commitment exhibited by our Founding Fathers and Mothers. BEING A "PATRIOT" is honorable; whoever says different is WRONG!

BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT, at the expense of the truth, is a weakness and has no place in a free society. GUN OWNERSHIP is our right as secured by the US Constitution, and we will not beg our government for permission to exercise that right.

OUR HUMAN RIGHTS are worth fighting for -- specifically, our right to keep and bear arms, and we're prepared to fight to our death to preserve those rights. We always seek peaceful solutions first, but never underestimate the aim of . . .Armed Females.


Moderators, I hope I used the proper quote source tags for the content linked to the orginal website given above. I didn't want to dilute the message by rewording it my way. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Quite Welcome, M'lady! Lots of good information for males and females of the shooter persuasion!
Zindo



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


I understand your delema on the home front..Its not easy,as my dad was a POW,and mom had allot of getting used to..I would encourage you to be strong were he is now weak,for both of you..Sometimes you need to do what it takes to on your own for the best intrest of you both....



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Redpillblues
 


I feel for you Redpillblues and for your family. Wars hurt everyone in some way. Its a tough subject but one that should be addressed with as much neutral perspective as possible.

Long ago, one really mean chick kept plucking away at me until I finally took her down, sat on her chest, knees on her arms and my forearm across her throat. Basically, she was helpless as a baby and when I saw that look of recognition in her eyes somewhere deep inside me I wanted to show her precisely how big her mistake was, but compassion overruled that impulse. I calmly asked her if she wanted to continue. Because she realized immediately that her postion was not in her best interest, she shook her head in the negative. Still, I held her for much longer than I had to to get the message across. I don't Want to Hurt Anyone but I can.

When I am armed, I wonder if that same internal struggle would happen again.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
For all the female gun enthusiasts in the group, here's a web sight for female owners and shooters:

Armed Females of America

For all you guys that are now cringing....Oh well, deal with it.


Zindo


They stopped taking members in 2005 but it's a good site though.





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