I Don't Want To Shoot To Kill

reply to post by RussianScientists


One problem with this - You do not wait until your life is threatened to get a gun. Get it ahead of time, learn how to use and care for it properly so when and/or if the time comes, you will know what to do.

It's way too late if your life is threatened and you do not already have the gun! It's not like you can ask the person attacking you, please wait while I run to the gun store!

Originally posted by preparanoid

(Ideally, if you set up defensive measures, maybe you (one) would never have to face this situation.... Think broken glass on paths, thorn bushes under windows... things of that nature.)

A thorny shrub called "pyracantha" is an excellent choice for this. It's also called the "firethorn" bush, and trust me, those things are thick, and hurt like the dickens. They burn wherever they snag ya.

Don't plant ANY shrubs right up against the house, though. If an attacker DOES get through them, it makes a good hiding spot for ambushing folks who come out, and if they decide to try to burn you out, shrubs against the house make good kindling.

reply to post by nenothtu


There is no wolf at the OPs door my friend. There is only a thought of bad things to come in the future. The OP not getting a gun at this point in time is still the right choice.

as bad as it may sound, if your not prepared to use your weapon in a deadly force scenario, then it should not be carried. if worse come to worse and your put in a situation where you must use it and cant, not only will the bad guy kill you with your own weapon. then, he/she is in control of a firearm and will likely kill those with you.

its a bad deal all around in a situation like that. that said, you must be prepared mentally to act first everytime.

defense and CQC are something i'm very passionate about.

stay safe!

always cheat, always win, never surrender.

[edit on 12-7-2009 by anonamousantichrist]

reply to post by RussianScientists


Utter bullocks, From everything you have posted on this thread it's fairly apparent that you are a full fledged Sarah Brady worshiper and are more than willing to let someone become a victim first rather than being forewarned and prepared. You are spouting the same misguided and ridiculous mantra that a gun in the home is more likely to hurt the dwellers than the miscreants and that is patently BS. It's one of the major talking points from her organization and has been proven time and again a false premise!
Zindo


[edit on 7/12/2009 by ZindoDoone]

After reading the entire thread so far... I have seen alot of good advice.(IMHO)
1.Do not get a firearm to use for scaring, or wounding.
2.do not wait to get a firearm. You will need time and practice to use it effectively.
3.A firearm is made for killing. have that mindset or it is useless to get one.

I am a combat vet, I have been shot 3 times and blown up once. I have had to take a human life before..(more than once) and yess it does stay with you for life.. but it does get better..

I have also been the victim of a home invasion, i had a fully loaded m1911a1 .45cal colt. in my hand ready to go.. I got shot through a wall hit in the side and dropped like a sack of taters by a 9mm.

It was my dog that actually saved my sorry butt... In other words things can change in a heartbeat no matter how prepared you might think you are.. Having a weapon, and knowing how, plus being willing to use it is a plus, but no garrantee..

So I would suggest that you think hard about what you are willing and able to do to defend yourself, also think of other options to enhance your chances.. IE, a good dog, the thorny bushes... etc..

Originally posted by jd140
Someone threatens my family with violence I will shoot them right between the eyes and not lose any sleep over it.

Same here, but never the less I would try to avoid such a confrontation if at all possible. The bad thing about all this is, if the SHTF, I don't think any of us, no matter how armed we are, would be able to fend off an attacking gang.

If and when the SHTF, there won't be individuals roaming around looking to take your wife and your food, there will be gangs of them. And, it's unlikely they will come up and ring your door bell. More likely, they will attack from the front, back, and sides of your home. You'll be overwhelmed. And, in the event you have someone able to cover every angle, what will you do when they toss a molotov cocktail at your house and set it ablaze? They will slaughter you as you come running out of your home.

The best bet is to simply bugout to some isolated well hidden location, in the middle of some vast forest, or out in the middle of some field where you have a 360 degree view. Or an island in the middle of a lake. Or at the top of some mountain.

When the SHTF, those holding up in their homes will be like sitting ducks waiting for a house call!

Hazelnut, a lot of people have innocently offered you some very bad advice, and I think the worst is:

"trust your instincts"...I'd rather trust my training. Until your training reaches instinctual levels, your instincts will get you killed.

Combat is dangerous, deadly, and emotionally devastating. If you need a weapon, then you are in combat. Combat means violent confrontation, and not all combat occurs in wars: it can just as easily be one-on-one in a dark alley.

I recommend acquiring a paintball gun and going to your local paintball range to get used to the techniques of stalking other humans and shooting at them. It's a paltry shadow of real combat but you will learn a ground set of skills, and if the time comes when you need to exercise them, you can psych yourself into using a real weapon on an enemy much easier.

Killing people isn't easy and never should be. If it becomes easy, then there better be a damn good reason for it, like avenging the horrid death of a loved one. Otherwise you've wandered into psycho territory and have become as dangerous as the ones you fear. Even if it comes down to either him or me, you should have enough humanity to regret the necessity. But the key is to be around to regret it.

You are correct, taking a life changes you forever. How it changes you is what's important: you can let it destroy you in a myriad of ways or you can let it temper you into a harder steel than most.

The best way to avoid the necessity is to prepare mentally. Train your mind and spirit to pick up the intentions of others before they've figured it out for themselves and take action first. Taking action can mean anything from a quiet word to the wise to putting four slugs center mass without discusson or debate. If you find yourself dealing with a group, take out the most dangerous one first. This isn't usually the biggest guy, but either the most deranged or the smartest, the leader. Once you start, don't stop for a second until the entire threat has been eliminated. Remember, the safest way to check if your opponent is dead is a bullet through the head from a safe distance.

Combat favors the one with the iciest nerves: save the tears, regrets, and puking for after all is said and done.

When people ask me how my day is going my reply is usually: "Not bad, nobody's shooting at me so far today." And I mean it, too. Combat changes you forever, indeed: it helps keep life in perspective. A lot of crap that bothers other people slides right off me, cuz it ain't no thing, compared to lots of skilled people doing their damnedest to kill you.

[edit on 12-7-2009 by apacheman]

reply to post by apacheman


Good advice.. and you elaborated more skillfully than I was able to in my earlier post.. I agree with you 100% and I think that Hazelnut will benifit from this advice..

I don't see the problem with taking someone's life, then again I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.
Let me explain my view...if you, your family or those you care for are in ANY sense of danger, I believe killing the person(s) responsibile is justified beyond any doubt.

my first line of defense should the need arise. i know these 2 would be up to the task. they are very playful and have great temperments. however, they are also very protective.


zelda chicken is my female (closest to camera) and bowser is the wimpy male lol.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89e92e90ff56.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by anonamousantichrist


And what then, when the dogs are shot in the face?

reply to post by PublicDefenseCorp


Notice he said first line of defence??

Dogs are a very good deterant of bad guys..Makes bad guys think twice about lurking where they shouldnt..

If the dogs are shot by a bad guy,your gonna have problems..

If a bad guy hears the racking of a shotty and continues like nothing is up,your gonna have problems..

My 2 white sheppards are my babies and if a bad guy comes in my home as if no big deal,I know the guy means bussiness,and isnt some 15 year old punk just trying to steal something for a new X-Box..

That said if a bad guy acts like my dogs are not a threat and my racking of my shotty doesnt phase him,I KNOW that he is willing to do bodily harm and most likely armed himself..time to take action..

Its all about escalation really..

I for one would rather a bad guy not want to come into my home,rather than dealing with the after effects of holes in the walls and pools of blood and what ever..but thats just me though..

[edit on 12-7-2009 by Redpillblues]

reply to post by Redpillblues


i could not have said it any better. our thoughts on the matter are pretty much mirror images.
that said, my pups are family. if someone went after them with harm in mind, then we are all going to have a very bad day.
it sure is nice though the peace of mind that knowing a criminal will almost always pick a easier target. all it took was proper lighting, tactical shrub placement (LMAO), and my puppies.

i wont get too comfy. it'll change soon enough unfortunately.
cheers,
AA

You have the right idea with avoiding conflict.

However, when it comes to you and is unavoidable, I think of a firearm as I would think of insurance.

You do not buy car insurance because you plan on having an accident, you buy it IN CASE you have an accident.

I suggest using the same approach with a firearm. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

reply to post by nenothtu


Very good point about plants right upside a house. I'm really glad you mentioned it!
What I have done with my hedge (a non-thorny one at present, boxwood to be specific, 10' tall and growing) is to leave it un-pruned in the front. Against the house, down low, I do prune. It creates a little cubby as a spot for me and mine to get down in. I won't drag out the thorny defense unless things get a bit worse. =)
I have a blackberry thicket in my field that I have considered pruning the center out of for a storing a small cache of items near the house if we would have to bugout. However, on that one my mind has a great plan and my will power is failing me. I dread doing battle with 1/2 acre of blackberry bramble! =)
Maybe someday...
~pre

Gun's are great and fun to shoot regardless if you're trying to save your or your famlies life/s. I have cousins who just shoot in the clay pigeons contests up north in Maryland. They are excellent marksmen. Me, not so much. I love my bows and shotguns, although I don't own a shotgun currently. Don't forget about a nice, sharp, Machete. Better than a baseball bat. Just swing it and there goes an arm, considering they are unarmed with a gun. They will not continue their attack with a nub and you can keep it close by. A swung bat can be caught, it might hurt, but it won't stop the attack. Try catching a Machete. It also makes a great survival tool in the woods.

[edit on 12-7-2009 by Erastus]

I shall peel caps back and split wigs if this time in existence will prevail.
not a one liner.


[edit on 12-7-2009 by h1satsu]

You have seen the iconic picture on television, of the person kneeling on the ground, and another person with the gun at their head.

Put yourself in the picture, where do you picture yourself, kneeling or standing?

Being from the UK, I feel for you in this situation, I for one wouldn't want to take a life, but in teh defence of my family, if the cause is justified and I had no other option to protect me and my own, then I would take a life.
The trouble with my statement is supposing TS has HTF and we're trying to survive, and we come across another family, and the Man ( or the woman ) has a weapon and is trying to do the same as we are, just surviving.
Both have a gun either shotgun or pistol whatever, who would win?
You could shout over to them 'Don't fire , we can help each other' but if that doesn't work and they are firing at you and yours then if I were in that position I would take action, I would put the threat down even if it were a woman, I would try to aim to wound not kill but if they died then they brought it upon themselves I'm afraid.

From the UK we have no real access to legal firearms but if TSHTF bigtime I'm sure there'd be weapons that would be obtainable, and to be honest but not big headed I'm a fairly good shot, ( been target shooting both here and the US when on my hols and can hit what I'm aiming for , even lane shooting with paper targets I could shoot the pegs holding the target off at 100yards with a pistol.
It all depends on the situation , eveyone says 'its me or them' in a hypothetical situation but in the heat of the moment all common sense goes out the window and if your fighting not only for your life but those in your charge, your children and family then you may have no choice, of course running away is always a good idea IF you can do so.