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New Space Observations: Early Forms of Inorganic Extraterrestrial Life?

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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New Space Observations: Early Forms of Inorganic Extraterrestrial Life?


www.dailygalaxy.com

An international research team announced a breakthrough in self-replicating plasma crystals which could be an early form of inorganic life. New studies of dust that form lifelike structures suggest that extraterrestrial life may not be carbon-based at all. Researchers at the Russian Academy of Science, the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Germany, and the University of Sydney observed particles of inorganic dust form helical structures and go through other "lifelike" changes.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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This is pretty cool. Apparently plasma crystals that self-replicate have been discovered. This, of course, brings up the age-old question of whether all life is carbon based or not. Could it be that extraterrestrial life isn't even close to us from a chemistry standpoint? This is a truly awesome discovery.


TA

www.dailygalaxy.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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Kewl more support for CRITTERS



Thanks for the find...



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


No problem, thanks for the reply. This is some truly mind-blowing territory they're getting into. I wonder how the self-replicating crystals could be used.


TA



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheAssociate
www.dailygalaxy.com


Yes the article started off interestingly enough! I got excited for a minute, until I got to this part:


we're afraid this result has much more to do with advertising than actual science. The core of their argument appears to be that certain helical structures which form in a plasma resemble the helices of DNA - anyone familiar with magnetic fields, or indeed the very idea of "one thing looking like another thing", will realize that a helical shape does not a lifeform make.


And it goes on about how the helices don't really SELF-replicate, and after all it's only simulations, so there's not much to look at here, except for one thing.
I think it's good that people are at least considering the possibility that not all life is carbon based. We have an understandable bias to expect it to be so, but if we don't look for it in other forms, we could be missing something.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheAssociate
reply to post by zorgon
 


No problem, thanks for the reply. This is some truly mind-blowing territory they're getting into. I wonder how the self-replicating crystals could be used.


TA



We could use them for the same thing that the organisms use them for - propulsion...

Nice Find Nelson.


Edit:


Bohm, a leading expert in twentieth century plasma physics, observed in amazement that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were a part of a larger and interconnected whole. Although the individual movements of each electron appeared to be random, vast numbers of electrons were able to produce collective effects that were surprisingly well organized and appeared to behave like a life form. The plasma constantly regenerated itself and enclosed impurities in a wall in the same way that a biological organism, like the unicellular amoeba, might encase a foreign substance in a cyst. So amazed was Bohm by these life-like qualities that he later remarked that he frequently had the impression that the electron sea was "alive" and that plasma possessed some of the traits of living things. The debate on the existence of plasma-based life forms has been going on for more than 20 years ever since some models showed that plasma can mimic the functions of a primitive cell.

They can, for instance, divide to form copies of the original structure; which then interact to induce changes in their neighbors that evolve into other new structures. The less stable structures break down over time leaving behind only the structures that are most adapted to the environment. "These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter", says Tsytovich, "they are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve".

He adds that the ionized conditions needed to form these helical structures are common in outer space. If that is so, then it will mean that plasma life forms are the most common life form in the universe, given that plasma makes up more than 99% of our visible universe which is almost everywhere ionized. This is in stark contrast to carbon-based life forms, which according to the Rare Earth hypothesis proposed by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee, would be rare in the universe due to a number of factors - including the need for an acceptable range of temperatures to survive. Complex carbon based life may be as rare as solid rocky bodies like the Earth in the universe.



[edit on 8-7-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Dang!

I got too excited as well. The first thing I thought about was that episode of the X-Files where they find the silicon-based life form in the volcano. My apologies.

I should really lay off the caffeine.



TA



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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Star & Flag


This is a great discovery and thanks for this, made good reading. There is also a need to broaden the scope of 'life' as we understand. These plasma crystals may have some life in them or may be intelligents, even though they are not organic, they just dont yet fit into our definition of life, as we understand it.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Interesting information, Exuberant1. Thanks for adding that. That is truly bizarre to think about. We always assume that alien life is going to be something similar to us, when in reality it's most likely going to be something strange and very, very different.


TA



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by sunny_2008ny
 





they just dont yet fit into our definition of life, as we understand it.


That's a good point. In the next few years we may be forced to rethink our definition of 'life.'



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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Finds like these are SOOO important to "The Cause"...that is to prove that we are not alone. Human arrogance never ceases to amaze me...the premise that all life is carbon based will one day be viewed the same way as a flat earth is today. We are not even in the embryonic stage of understanding the universe...I wonder if any civilization survives long enough to reach even a rudamentary comprehension. Great post! I love the passion and determination of our membership! Vive la ATS!!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Cole DeSteele
 


Thanks, Cole DeSteele. As one poster pointed out, this turned out to be hypothetical stuff, but I still think it's pretty important in the quest to understand life in all its forms. I'm honestly not sure that we can understand it all, but that is no excuse to ever stop asking and searching for new discoveries.


TA



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by TheAssociate We always assume that alien life is going to be something similar to us, when in reality it's most likely going to be something strange and very, very different.


Who is 'we'?
A bunch of us have been pursuing plasma life forms in many threads


Do a google for plasma life forms


As to silicon based... WHY oh WHY do people assume it must be rock creatures?

Silicon Oxide is quartz harness 7 Carbon in crystal form is Diamond harness 10 and yet we are soft and squishy are we not?

This is a silicon based errrr life form
Its soft and squishy too



Silicon rubber... silicon skin replacement.. silicon lubricants All similar tocarbon based products


OH and forget it she runs $6,000.00





[edit on 9-7-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Yes the article started off interestingly enough! I got excited for a minute, until I got to this part:


we're afraid this result has much more to do with advertising than actual science. The core of their argument appears to be that certain helical structures which form in a plasma resemble the helices of DNA - anyone familiar with magnetic fields, or indeed the very idea of "one thing looking like another thing", will realize that a helical shape does not a lifeform make.


Great sleuthing
Only had you noticed that the quote is from a BLOGGER and the original link to the actual paper is at the bottom of the page...

www.iop.org...

Has a little more credibility from there n'est ce pas?

Now where on the paper does it indicate it has to do with advertizing?

[edit on 9-7-2009 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Sorry, didn't mean to imply that everyone assumed that ET life is only little gray guys who go around abducting people.
I've done some research into the subject and will probably do a little more; this thread has piqued my interest.


TA



[edit on 9-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

Edit: Thanks for the detective work, much appreciated!


[edit on 9-7-2009 by TheAssociate]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Great sleuthing
Only had you noticed that the quote is from a BLOGGER and the original link to the actual paper is at the bottom of the page...

www.iop.org...

Has a little more credibility from there n'est ce pas?

Now where on the paper does it indicate it has to do with advertizing?

I read the paper and I think the blogger's characterizations about there not being any true self replication, and about it being based totally on simulations, are accurate. That's the important point I was trying to make.

I don't really want to debate if it's advertising or not, however if it was I think he meant "self-promoting aggrandizement of not very significant results", at least that's how I interpreted his use of the term "advertising". Let's face it, anyone writing a paper trying to blow smoke up your skirt is not going to preface the paper by saying "The purpose of this paper is to blow smoke up your skirt", right? So of course you won't see that spelled out in the paper!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
This is a silicon based errrr life form
Its soft and squishy too

Howard Stern said he spent the night with one of those silicon life forms and it was better than his wife, I don't know if he was serious or not. But they probably don't talk as much


[edit on 9-7-2009 by Arbitrageur]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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I have this e-book with me "The Limits of Organic Life
in Planetary Systems"

This was a study done by the National Research Council of the National Academy, US. They advise the US govt on space.

This book is a study of existing life forms, their detection and the existing limitations (expecially our assumtion that all life might be carbon based). The book suggests some other forms of life that could be possible and we are overlooking it, and also sugests places where such life forms could be found.

This is the link to the e-book
media.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 9-7-2009 by sunny_2008ny]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Maybe amoeba look like they do because they're following the plasma model. Maybe carbon based life's rules follow plasma's rules for the same reasons. Wouldn't simple carbon based life forms be subject to the same forces that plasma would? I'm not saying their reactions to those forces would be identical, but similar patterns should emerge somewhere. What forces twist DNA and plasma crystal into double helixes? Why do cells and plasma divide in a similar manner?

I just don't think that the two are that unrelated, something makes matter of different states behave in similar ways and that would really be the discovery should we find it does work that way.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by DezertSkies What forces twist DNA and plasma crystal into double helixes? Why do cells and plasma divide in a similar manner?


Very interesting observation
Something I need to look into



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