It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Australia's plan to ban Uluru climb sparks debate

page: 1
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 09:43 PM
link   

Australia's plan to ban Uluru climb sparks debate


au.news.yahoo.com

CANBERRA (Reuters) - An Australian government proposal to stop people from climbing the famed Uluru, in deference to the wishes of indigenous people, sparked debate on Wednesday with lawmakers opposing the plan.

A draft management plan for the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park called for a ban on people climbing the 348-meter (1,142 ft) rock, which is sacred to local Aborigine people and visited each year by 350,000 people, half of them from overseas.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 09:43 PM
link   
The climb to the top of Ayres Rock or ULURU has been a must do for visitors for 60 odd years in Australia.
However, people climbing on Uluru has been regarded by the idigenous people of Central Australia, the Anangu, to be a huge sign of disrespect to their culture and beliefs. Uluru is sacred to them, a gigantic monolith that demands respect just in its presence in the landscape.
It is significant in their Tjukurpa ( their dreaming or more correctly their Law) and their law has stated that only the most initiated elders can climb it and only for special reasons.
In another life I was a tour guide visiting this area for a few years and never climbed it, and we actively encouraged our customers not to, but to instead spend the time there engaging in the culture and trying a walk around it, which is a feat in itself. No one ever felt they missed out by not Conquering the rock.

This may seem trivial, but it is probably the biggest respect we can show our first guardians of this land. And this will be a Hot debate in Australia.

au.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 09:47 PM
link   
in reality, most over seas visitors won't climb the rock when told of its spiritual and traditional beliefs of the indiginous peoples.

Those from Australia however show little reguard for cultural beliefs and believe it is their right to climb it.

Not all of us would climb the rock and will show respect for the beliefs of our native people.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 09:53 PM
link   
reply to post by 2theC
 




In another life I was a tour guide visiting this area for a few years and never climbed it


...What?

Anyways, I can see how this can be trivial. How many "Native" people actually still live in the area that worship the rock? I mean if its a few hundred people compared to the 350,000 that visit the rock, I would say the proposal should be defeated..



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:00 PM
link   
reply to post by munkey66
 


yes, thats been my experience. Overseas visitors recognized the spiritual importance of Uluru when it was shown to them, and its not that hard to t either.

But to convince an Australian, well that was another matter.
Aussies i met there always questioned why i didn't climb or why i encouraged my clients to consider not climbing.
they seemed to consider it a "right" to be able to climb it and they would defend that right by just justification that they had travelled so far just to climb it.

It will produce an interesting debate now its on the national stage.

I am an Australian too, what ever that means.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by 2theC
 




In another life I was a tour guide visiting this area for a few years and never climbed it


...What?

Anyways, I can see how this can be trivial. How many "Native" people actually still live in the area that worship the rock? I mean if its a few hundred people compared to the 350,000 that visit the rock, I would say the proposal should be defeated..


you know what i mean!!! same life, different time, different place

No, it is not trivial unless we have progressed enough to respect our indigenous beliefs.

If 350 000 people wont go there anymore because they cant climb it, stuff em. Its up to the tourism industry to get a pay off from showing some respect and being a little more inventive in their marketing.

If this gets through it will signal a huge shift in Australia's conscience, huge.

If it doesn't, well, what can say, keep on keeping on, she'll be right, its just a rock, get us a beer would ya, bloody Abo's, what else do they want ?

not trivial for me anyways, i will be watching closely...and see if we can grow up a little.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:16 PM
link   
Though I would love to climb Uluru, I would prefer to respect the wishes of the aboriginals. We've already taken more than our share from them through our countries sordid history. There should be no price put on their spiritual beliefs. After all, it's belonged to them for in excess of 60,000 years... so who are we to say, or to complain!

IRM



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:19 PM
link   
I've climbed it once , it was a great experience , something I'd like to do again someday .
So I think it will be a pity if they ban it .
Besides , the aboriginals collect a healthy amount of money from visitors .
You can't even get into the area by car these days without paying to get close to it .
Last I heard it was like $35 per person a few years ago .
May have gone up now .
They may be hurting themselves by having it banned , I wouldn't bother going back if I couldn't climb it , I certainly wouldn't feel like paying just to see it again .
Cheers

:EDIT , I still prefer to call it Ayers rock


[edit on 8-7-2009 by Takka]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:24 PM
link   
Magical rock is magical.

Climbing Magical rock is offensive to Gods.

This I knew because I was a magical rock once. I told my followers to tell the people climbing me to tell them to get off.

I had a friend who was a magical rock also but my friend actually LIKED people to climb on it. I think my friends name was K2 or something. I am not sure.

Anyhoot to make a long story short...magic rock.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by Takka
I've climbed it once , it was a great experience , something I'd like to do again someday .
So I think it will be a pity if they ban it .
Besides , the aboriginals collect a healthy amount of money from visitors .
You can't even get into the area by car these days without paying to get close to it .
Last I heard it was like $35 per person a few years ago .
May have gone up now .
They may be hurting themselves by having it banned , I wouldn't bother going back if I couldn't climb it , I certainly wouldn't feel like paying just to see it again .
Cheers

:EDIT , I still prefer to call it Ayers rock


[edit on 8-7-2009 by Takka]


mmmmm.....
sigh



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:13 AM
link   
Its a damn rock!! do with it as you will, what about our rights as people that are climbed over and stepped on everyday.

Share!!

I want to lift it up and see whats underneath



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:13 AM
link   
The Australian Gouv. really needs to stop worrying about what will and will not offend Aboriginals. Granted they didn't have the most pleasant introduction to western culture but history is full of (made of) the oppression of indigenous cultures, being British should i go to Rome and demand compensation?

They already receive a ridiculous amount of hand outs from the government making it easy for them to live comfortable lives yet they still mostly live in poverty, currently they are the root cause of all their own problems.

Were in the middle of a GFC yet the country continues to throw money and time at them, 350,000 visitors dollars is a bonus for everyone, start justifying the hand outs instead of just claiming accepting every claim of Aboriginal heritage/importance.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Magical rock is magical.

Climbing Magical rock is offensive to Gods.

This I knew because I was a magical rock once. I told my followers to tell the people climbing me to tell them to get off.

I had a friend who was a magical rock also but my friend actually LIKED people to climb on it. I think my friends name was K2 or something. I am not sure.

Anyhoot to make a long story short...magic rock.


Enjoy making an utter fool of yourself? Mission accomplished eh!

That's a fairly ignorant and low-brow response. It's shallow attitudes like yours that shafted the aboriginals in the first place. Show some respect!

IRM :shk:



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:52 AM
link   
ok seems we aren't ready yet for this dialogue in Australia.

This is not about them, its about us.

can we live without climbing the rock, yes we can.

money doesn't not solve the problems, respect might, on both sides.

but this a thread about climbing Uluru, maybe just a rock, but one that has obviously meant a lot to a people or a long long long time.

( by the way, who ends up with most of the money we throw at aboriginals?
Answer-All those people that prey off their addictions and situations
and most of them are dinky di white autralians milking the government via the aboriginals)



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:56 AM
link   
we have already ruined the lives of probably every indigenous tribe that has ever walked the earth whether it be forced Christianity, Polluting their lands or just killing them. etc etc

Its about time a government made a decision that actually respects them.

Good on the Ozzy government for thinking of the Aboriginals for a change.






posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:38 PM
link   


Its a damn rock!! do with it as you will, what about our rights as people that are climbed over and stepped on everyday.


Actually, it's a monolith.

I've visited Uluru several times, and have always came away with a bad feeling after seeing the hordes of tourists trying to clamber all over and around it. To many here in Australia, it's an extension of our national identity.

It's a shame that previously it was acceptable and even encouraged to walk all over it, although for at least the last twenty years people have been aware of the cultural significance of Uluru.

To walk around it and find old coke bottles and scraps of rubbish at it's base brought up a feeling of sadness inside me.

To many people, Uluru is a storyteller. It communicates thru soft gestures, responding to the wind and the sky, continuously changing and renewing it's story.

I support the ban, thru my own selfish views and the views of the Pitjantjatjara people, and all of the tribes that use Uluru as their meeting place.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:49 PM
link   
As an Aussie I have never managed to get that far inland but it has been something i have thought of if i ever get the chance, i mean years ago i would not of hesitated climbing that rock and to this day would still love to say that i have done that but now im not so sure, not because it offends a culture though which is strange i like to think i am respectful. I mean there are people that will climb it just out of spite wheras i would feel the whole majesty and beauty of the occasion the being one with nature this is my land too. But i would think its safe now as i am increasingly lazy and it all seems to much like a effort to me. Plus the money, you cant charge me to climb something nature built.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:10 PM
link   
The average Australian couldn't care less about Uluru just like they couldn't care less about Aboriginals fullstop

How many people do I know that said we shouldn't say sorry, their argument being 'I didn't do anything to them why should I say sorry'

Well I voted for Kev and was proud in that moment- I was happy to say sorry.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:37 PM
link   
reply to post by lifecitizen
 


it made me sick that our previous P.M.John Howard wouldn't say sorry because of the implications of admitting guilt, and yet we did and it felt good.

It was a very emotional day, for the first time in a long time i had some pride in being Australian that we could have grown to recognize our shame. Having a tear when politicians speak is a rare occasion too, but it happened!

we do have a lot to learn off these people, if we just take the time and help them regain knowledge and wisdom. This knowledge which we seem to have been ripping from them,intentionally and unintentionally for 200 years, and soon we will lose it.

I look at our experience in Australia as a great opportunity to find out more about what the ancients knew. The aboriginal people are our direct connection to them.

Uluru could be like a great conductor in our reconcilliation of our cultures. Talking with the people of that area, actually it always was an intersection of desert people.
Many many ancient lines of travel through central Australia connect there,

... could we?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:39 PM
link   
I have climbed to the top of the chain - maybe 50 meters? But wouldn't consider climbing to the top anymore than I would poke around inside the Vatican or Buckingham Palace or climb to the top of the US Capitol building.




top topics



 
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join