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Will American Industrial and Economic Imperialism cost more lives than the NAZIS in WW2?

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Please do not think I'm anti-US. It's only a question, but a question that needs to be asked and answered.

WW2 cost over 70 million lives, including axis and allied, millitary and civillian.

The primary cause of the Second World War, discounting any conspiracy theories must be laid at the feet of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi military expansion of the Third Reich. Of course other factors may have been at work but as a catalyst for a war there cannot be too much argument there.

Now to my thoughts on American Economic Imperialism. It may not be as quick as a six year war, it may be far more incremental.

But consider the deaths worlwide that can be attributed to American Business policy (and Political policy as they are one and the same). Think of the deaths from poverty and exploitaton in the third world, the wars started to bring in pro-US regimes for oil, Iraq (one million dead Iraqis), South American revolutions and assasinations to exploit natural resources, and the pollution of water and food supplies by US business in developing nations. These are just a few scenarios.

I'm fairly sure, if it were possible to tally up the deaths and casualties of the US push for an Economic Empire, the total would far outnumber that of WW2.

So? I hear you ask. It's just ironic that the self proclaimed saviour of the free world, may also be its biggest killer. Just something to ponder.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by kiwifoot]




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Yep america winning world war 2, was the worst thing for the world. They have bals up everything. They claim they saved lifes, but look how many deaths by greed has happened since ww2.

Propaganda is what america is all about, and they hide the fact they have raped the world dry since ww2. Honest americans like pat buchanan and ron paul could tell you what really america has done since then.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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So - am i to assume that only since WW2 was won by allies people are dying because of poor resource management? And even if this weird assumption was correct, how do you single out US from all first world countries? By the way - those few clicks on keyboard you used to post your theory plus all the infrastructure involved used energy that could feed someone instead. Does it mean that your opinion cost live?
First world uses much more resources then third one - well guess what, it always been this way. Mighty British empire caused several famines directly (in Ireland and India for example) , not by using resources. So current top dogs are much more humane, me thinks. They cause it all indirectly.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
So - am i to assume that only since WW2 was won by allies people are dying because of poor resource management? And even if this weird assumption was correct, how do you single out US from all first world countries? By the way - those few clicks on keyboard you used to post your theory plus all the infrastructure involved used energy that could feed someone instead. Does it mean that your opinion cost live?
First world uses much more resources then third one - well guess what, it always been this way. Mighty British empire caused several famines directly (in Ireland and India for example) , not by using resources. So current top dogs are much more humane, me thinks. They cause it all indirectly.


I was waiting for that, cool, so because the British did it it's okay?

We judge the British Empire severely for what they did, we know now in hindsight that their empire was a terrible blight on the countries they were in. But because they did it it's okay?

Wake up mate, and smell the coffee produced for you by a company in South America that pays the farmer a dollar a day.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by kiwifoot
 


No it is not OK. But it is not new stuff either. Exploitation of weaker by strong is built-in feature of our society. If it is capitalism, socialism, communism, feudalism or whatever. If it was not for US - other top dog would do at least the same amount of damage, if not more. South American farmers could be employed in large "working armies" and producing quality coffee for obligatory work days.
Or same South American farmers could be declared inferior race and become slaves for superior race working for food and water.
Those alternatives are better?


[edit on 8-7-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 



Originally posted by kiwifoot
Now to my thoughts on American Economic Imperialism. It may not be as quick as a six year war, it may be far more incremental.

But consider the deaths worlwide that can be attributed to American Business policy (and Political policy as they are one and the same). Think of the deaths from poverty and exploitaton in the third world, the wars started to bring in pro-US regimes for oil, Iraq (one million dead Iraqis), South American revolutions and assasinations to exploit natural resources, and the pollution of water and food supplies by US business in developing nations. These are just a few scenarios.

So? I hear you ask. It's just ironic that the self proclaimed saviour of the free world, may also be its biggest killer. Just something to ponder.



This is a great quote from a debate held here at ATS between a Canadian and a Britt about the US of A As to whether the US should be a world leader. I'll let it speak for itself. Enjoy.



Soulslayer’s first : Poleconomy

The USA has presided over the biggest increase in wealth the world has ever seen. Take a look at this graph to see how the past 50 years compare to the previous 1950 years!
upload.wikimedia.org...

The USA has been the catalyst for this dynamic increase in the world’s GDP. The US has been the engine of growth for the world, via its capitalist free market policies. The US has been a thought leader in economics, via Krugman, Amartya Sen, Stiglitz et al.

The USA is the biggest economy in the world, and serves as a massive consumer market.
en.wikipedia.org...(PPP)
Who does China rely on selling products to? The USA.
Who does India rely on selling BPO/ KPO services to? The USA.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now let’s take a look at how charitable the USA is. It’s the undisputed world leader in terms of charity.
en.wikipedia.org...

Politically, we know that the USA is the undisputed world leader. The UN security council is largely influenced by the policies of the USA, and the US continues to wield this power.

Which other country even comes close to being economically or politically as influential as the USA?

China? Nope, just look how people ran away from China and towards the USA once the economic crisis started. Just look at how people ran to the dollar when they wanted a safe haven. Crises show who is still in power. When man is hopeless and in a dangerous situation, he begins to pray. Even an otherwise irreligious man begins to pray… The situation with world politics is somewhat similar. We all like to bash the leader and nip at his heels, but when we need something done- a tyrant deposed, pirates cowed or an economy repaired, we all return on bended knee.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


I do see your point, and in often in business one party benefits more than another. But we're talking about ruthless, deadly and large scale manipulation. Which I reallly don't think you can compare to one farmer ripping another farmer off.

I'm talking about ten million south American kids brought up in poverty because of IMF/World Bank policies. A million dead Iraqis, Africans dying in millions because if Big Pharma drug prices. We're talking about different scales, and whoever replaced the US in that role would be evil too. You cannot deny that US business has a lot to answer for.

Well you can , but I think you'd be kidding yourself.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot
I'm talking about ten million south American kids brought up in poverty because of IMF/World Bank policies. A million dead Iraqis, Africans dying in millions because if Big Pharma drug prices. We're talking about different scales, and whoever replaced the US in that role would be evil too. You cannot deny that US business has a lot to answer for.

Well you can , but I think you'd be kidding yourself.


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

The US did not create starvation, pestilence, or racial wars. Under US stewardship the world as a whole has seen the greatest increase in the standard of living across the board.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Oh come on Slayer, this isn't about hating the US, being jealous or wanting someone else in charge.

that quote doesn't make unethical business practice by US Industry right, in my opinion.

Do you really think that because we have more and are wealthier(and yes thanks to the US) in general, we should turn a blind eye?

Please say no!



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot


Please say no!



It has nothing to do with who is richer. Just look around the world at "Everybody's" overall standard of living. You seem to want to blame all the worlds issues on the US. I know that's a pop culture view but it just isn't true.

Yes we have done things that are unethical but give it a rest already we are not responsible for all the worlds problems.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Dude, my first point was that this isn't US bashing.

But If WW2 had been fought on US soil it would be Europe that had taken the same role. Saying that the US was the head honcho during the most prosperous economic era in the worlds history is rightly true, but with the advance of technology, the cold war and consumerism it was not hard!! Plus the US was the only country that didn't have to be rebuilt in it's entirity and also it had its manufacturing infrastructure undamaged from the war.

I'm not bashing the US, however hip it may be, but I am bashing corporate multinationals riding roughshod over the world.

Sorry, but it's true. But the US, hey, it's because of it I'm not speaking Japanese right now!



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by kiwifoot
Sorry, but it's true. But the US, hey, it's because of it I'm not speaking Japanese right now!


And I'm saying that because of all the above reasons that you claim the US is responsible for also ushered in the greatest standard of living and wealth for the entire world.

If that did not occur you would still have... Starvation, Pestilence, Wars. etc Who knows how many more millions above the millions you mentioned would have died from disease, starvation and even greater wars?

The phrase

The lesser of two evils may apply.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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"Imperialism" is a political system. Catchy word too, and has been since the leftists started throwing it against anything they disagreed with in the '60's.

"Corporatism" is an economic system. The rest of the world tends to view economics and politics as blurred together, but they aren't unless they are forced to be. Rightfully, they should be as separated as religion and politics. These 3 things just don't belong together, no matter how much one tries to force it to be so.

What I see there may not be strictly "US bashing" in the straightest sense of the phrase, but it IS symptomatic of a wide ranging proclivity world wide to blame "the other guy" for our own problems, rather than taking responsibility for our own situations.

In 1604, there were 105 white colonists at Jamestown, VA, surrounded by 30,000 Powhatan indians. The Powhatans could have easily wiped out the colony, and every subsequent one, and burnt every incoming ship to the water line. They didn't, and we have what we have today. I see a lot of white Americans blaming those colonists for atrocities committed against indians ever since. I dunno. The Shawnee side of me says that's just white guilt. I personally blame the Powhatans of the times.

Likewise today, all around the world are people who would rather blame the Other Guy for their own misfortunes, caused by their own actions or inactions. No one can do to you anything that you don't allow them to. All else is whining.

I see Americans blaming China for their own economic woes. China only did what the US allowed, and in fact promoted. If they wind up owning us, it's our own fault, not theirs. It's the same everywhere.

All these overseas countries decrying the US "Imperialist exploitation of resources" Are overlooking something - the same companies that "exploit" them have left Americans high and dry in favor of setting up overseas, and improving what are (to Americans) foreign economies, to the detriment of America. While their standards of living and industrial bases are increasing, ours is declining.

Whine all you want, but don't be surprised when I laugh.

[edit on 2009/7/8 by nenothtu]




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