The Politically Correct Member of Society

Originally posted by hangedman13
The whole pc issue is a minefield. In the US we have various ethnic types, religons and belief systems. All that being pc brings to the table is another way to police everyone's words and actions. Don't say/do that it will offend group x. It's just a form of misdirection, A excuse if you will for taking things out of context. For instance any talk about minority crime always seems to get labeled as racist even when facts can back up the accused. The truth is not changed by "political correctness", however when the pc card is played facts and truth become irrelevant. It's a smokescreen for "them", them being those who encourage such playground silliness. "Did I offend you? Well here's my apology, and by the way f*** y**!

Simple fact is that the truth can hurt, and sometimes you need to be hurt so you can learn not to do that again. But then again most people can't be honest with themselves let alone take a shot of honesty from some one else.

I agree with you. Policing our words and actions for what purpose? To avoid offending certain minority groups? Or is something else driving it?

Anyone who practices manners knows that they do it to fit in, to be acceptable to others, and to show they've reached a higher pinnacle of self-control. Unfortunately politically correct manners have replaced virtues and morals. Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Diligence, Patience, Kindness, and Humility.

If we were all expected to display these seven virtues, there would be no need for PC or the worry that we might hurt someone's feelings.

Today's Yahoo Search revealed 4,810,000 hits on the term. "politically correct speech" Fascinating how much coverage of this subject exists, yet hardly anyone on this forum wants to focus on it long enough to expose it for what it is.

We have politically correct education, politically incorrect facts, "politically correct" hate speech, and finally a site dealing with thought crimes. All of these on page 1 of the search.

With over 4,810,000 returns on the search for politically correct speech I find that the subject must hold some interest since there are so many sites with the words.

“To return to thought control: The ‘control’ that enforces ‘orthodoxy’ in speech by individuals is simply fear of retribution, reprisal, or financial and personal ruin. To work, thought or speech control relies exclusively on self-censorship. The instances of operable thought control are as ubiquitous and innocuous in our culture as countless drops of water falling on one’s forehead in a Chinese torture.”

and...

Politically correct speech, we are seeing, inevitably leads to politically correct thought, if the speech is not flouted, opposed, or corrected. Who can enforce that epistemology-wrecking and metaphysics-warping nomenclature? Who can enforce mental blank-outs?

The quotes above are from this site:
Thought Crime: The End of Politically Correct Speech

Now here's another blog that attempts to explain the phenomena of politically correct speech and what it is.

Our Civilization

The set of values that are detested are those held by the previous generation (those who fought the Second World War), which is why the terms 'n-word's, coons, dagos, wogs, poofs, spastics and sheilas, have become heresy, for, in an act of infantile rebellion, their subject have become revered by the new generation. Political Correctness is merely the resentment of spoilt children directed against their parent's values.

As each subsequent generation of selfish citizens inherits control of the community, it takes its opportunity to abandon more of the irksome restraints that genius and wisdom had installed. The proponents of this social demolition achieve their irrational purpose by publicly embracing absurdity through slogans while vilifying any who do not support their stance. The purpose of the slogan is to enshrine irrational fears, or fancies, as truth through the use of presumptuous words, so public pronouncement:

It is difficult to face the fact that our world is indeed being manipulated insidiously from dark corners and black hearts. To change the character of "society" we must recognize this heinous plot for what it is. It is the intellectual destruction of the next generation.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Why would we want to be politically correct?

Political correctness is the unfortunate result of trying to legislate good manners. While one might think there is no need to do so, it's obvious that others have no qualms about giving offence to minorities and others. That is the kind of thing that tears communities apart...from families to neighbourhoods to workplaces.

Look at the UK with its Anti-Social Behaviour laws...same thing...trying to get people to exercise some simple good manners and quit inflicting themselves upon their fellows. Sure it goes to extremes...I used the "N-word" in a proper context on this site and my whole post was killed.

But the fact remains that if folks were a little bit more sensitive to the effects of their words and action...show a little class... such laws wouldn't be necessary.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


What ever happened to that old saying "Sticks and stones will break my bones but WORDS will never hurt me"?

Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

What ever happened to that old saying "Sticks and stones will break my bones but WORDS will never hurt me"?

It's wrong...names do hurt. The words also carry a power in and of themselves, which is why hurtfull words like "Nigger" and "Queer" have been taken back by their respective minorities and become self-administered. Obviously doesn't take the hurt out, though.

Words like 'crip' and 'retard' along with all those ethnic slurs...are becoming socially unacceptable, and to me, that's a good thing. I come out of a hugely diverse community, and while I deplore the excesses of PC as much as anybody, I can appreciate some of the good that it's created. Sure, it's social engineering, but so was targeting 'one for the road'.

My 2 biggest gripes with all the PC rubbish going on at the moment are

1/ It creates a tendency to turn the human race into a big homogenous blob, where it is considered rude (at best) or outright illegal (at worst), to acknowledge differences in people, groups etc. Some people need to learn, that being equal does not necessarily mean being the same. I consider my wife and I as equals ,but certainly not the same.

I remember growing up, my mum had a good friend from Papua New Guinea, who had very dark skin. He often said he found it more offensive when people tried to skirt around the issue of his skin colour, because, as he said " I AM black".

2/ It fosters a sense of what I call "reverse discrimination", where it is basically frowned upon (if not legislated against) to say or do anything that could even be construed as being disparaging towards a minority group (and please note, this isn't a pot shot at any minority group), without members of the majority group having the same recourse.

Example. Where I grew up, the politicians had the bright idea that by a particular date there was going to be a 1:1, male:female ratio in the police force. This of course completely ignored the fact that there were far more males applying for the police force. The result was that you had more chance of being hired as a police officer by virtue of being a female. Basically a text book definition of gender based discrimination, but the few people who publicly challenged this were shouted down.

I want to give a big middle finger to all this PC rubbish. I try to say things as I see them. Sometimes I keep quiet for the sake of civility, and I certainly don't think we should be deliberately trying to cause offence to anyone, but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to lie and grovel just to keep the PC watchdogs happy.

Originally posted by BrownsySometimes I keep quiet for the sake of civility, and I certainly don't think we should be deliberately trying to cause offence to anyone, but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to lie and grovel just to keep the PC watchdogs happy.

Well then, as long as you show some respect and common sense, you ought to have nothing to worry about and if subjected to unreasonable actions at the altar of PD-dom, you have the right to challenge them face-to-face.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

What ever happened to that old saying "Sticks and stones will break my bones but WORDS will never hurt me"?

It's wrong...names do hurt. The words also carry a power in and of themselves, which is why hurtfull words like "Nigger" and "Queer" have been taken back by their respective minorities and become self-administered. Obviously doesn't take the hurt out, though.

Words like 'crip' and 'retard' along with all those ethnic slurs...are becoming socially unacceptable, and to me, that's a good thing. I come out of a hugely diverse community, and while I deplore the excesses of PC as much as anybody, I can appreciate some of the good that it's created. Sure, it's social engineering, but so was targeting 'one for the road'.

I have to say that words are words, not weapons. Its not the words themselves as you point out, it is the emotional attachment to the meaning attached to the word that can be harmful. Kids used to call me half-tooth because my front tooth was knocked out when I was 10. It hurt to be called that, but it also showed me who the ignorant ones were.

We teach our children (at least we used to) that saying about sticks and stones. Words are weapons on the emotions, intellect and do indeed have power. So why do we teach our kindergarteners that words are not a real threat? We have taught a double-standard at the most vulnerable age that causes mass confusion and the inability to think critically.

Political correctness does not reflect my morals and values. It reflects a societal braindead, helpless and insecure mindset sure to infect every thinking mind on the planet. It is a basis for judgment and repercussion.

Understand that you are being coerced to stop thinking your own thoughts and to willfully submit your right to choose and decide for yourself.

If you are ignorant, your words will show it. If you are violent, your actions will show it. That is as simple as it gets.

Political correctness is a prison for your mind, a societal prison for freedom of thought.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
If you are ignorant, your words will show it. If you are violent, your actions will show it. That is as simple as it gets.

Political correctness is a prison for your mind, a societal prison for freedom of thought.

Then why is it that stereotypes like the mimping fairy, and minstrel shows, greedy Jews and such are no longer tolerated? Hell...segregation? People...good people...at the time had been conditioned to think that there was no good reason for the colours to mix. Look at mixed-race marriages. It's not even noteworthy any more...here, anyway. Used to be called "mongrelization of the races".

The concept of PC has nothing to do with homogeneity...what it does is strip diversity of its 'otherness' in the broader scheme of things. My kids are colourblind insofar as ethnicity or gender is no longer regarded as a significant attribute or descriptive...it's incidental. I like that, and I'm proud of their mindset. It's a significant improvement on their upper middle class grandmother's distaste for interracial marriage.

To decry PC on the basis of its excesses is as stupid as to argue that its detractors are racist xenophobes. Either merely creates a straw man, which is the weakest form of debate.

I see political correctness as passive way to stop freedom of speech, a type of conformism where you cannot offend anyone or put forward an un PC point of view.

The problem is it becoming more entrenched in UK society with people seemingly accepting it as a "necessary" evil rather than something to be fought against. I also know it makes many people have a knee jerk reaction against right wing party's like the BNP when they don't really know what they really stand for.

The solution? Get people to speak their minds more! Tell the truth, be honest it is almost always the right thing to do.

The website has tons of info on it.
website

Originally posted by Brownsy
My 2 biggest gripes with all the PC rubbish going on at the moment are

1/ It creates a tendency to turn the human race into a big homogenous blob, where it is considered rude (at best) or outright illegal (at worst), to acknowledge differences in people, groups etc. Some people need to learn, that being equal does not necessarily mean being the same. I consider my wife and I as equals ,but certainly not the same.

I remember growing up, my mum had a good friend from Papua New Guinea, who had very dark skin. He often said he found it more offensive when people tried to skirt around the issue of his skin colour, because, as he said " I AM black".

2/ It fosters a sense of what I call "reverse discrimination", where it is basically frowned upon (if not legislated against) to say or do anything that could even be construed as being disparaging towards a minority group (and please note, this isn't a pot shot at any minority group), without members of the majority group having the same recourse.

Example. Where I grew up, the politicians had the bright idea that by a particular date there was going to be a 1:1, male:female ratio in the police force. This of course completely ignored the fact that there were far more males applying for the police force. The result was that you had more chance of being hired as a police officer by virtue of being a female. Basically a text book definition of gender based discrimination, but the few people who publicly challenged this were shouted down.

I want to give a big middle finger to all this PC rubbish. I try to say things as I see them. Sometimes I keep quiet for the sake of civility, and I certainly don't think we should be deliberately trying to cause offence to anyone, but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to lie and grovel just to keep the PC watchdogs happy.

Thank you so much for making what I clumsily tried to say so clear and eloquent. I was hoping for a member with the ability to articulate what I am trying to express.

Your points are true. I refuse to allow my individual identity to be consumed by collectivism. No matter how futile my resistance may be.

Originally posted by Chilled Zen Get people to speak their minds more! Tell the truth, be honest it is almost always the right thing to do.

I trust your principals will hold equally true the next time your wife asks "Does this make me look fat?"

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Chilled Zen Get people to speak their minds more! Tell the truth, be honest it is almost always the right thing to do.

I trust your principals will hold equally true the next time your wife asks "Does this make me look fat?"

Would that be anything like telling someone they have a bugger hanging from their nostril? That too would be honest and nowhere near politically correct. I would tell you if you look fat or if you have a bugger showing. But that's just me. I appreciate honesty and respect a person for it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Chilled Zen Get people to speak their minds more! Tell the truth, be honest it is almost always the right thing to do.

I trust your principals will hold equally true the next time your wife asks "Does this make me look fat?"

I always answered truthfully. If she looked fat I told her. The last thing I wanted to hear was that she heard somebody else say she looked fat and I didn't have the stones to tell her.....Of course I'm now divorced so........!!

I hate PC and won't bow down to the principle of worrying about 'Feelings'! No one seems to worry about offending me so turn about is just fine! The concept is so divisive that it in itself is Politically incorrect!

Zindo

[edit on 7/13/2009 by ZindoDoone]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


The problem is that the right to challenge them face to face doesn't usually get one very far when the kind of PC nonsense we see is state sanctioned and enforced.

If I know that I have done nothing wrong, but someone still insists on being upset, I'm not going to loose sleep over it, however the case may be different if I can be actively disadvantaged by them being upset.

Not long ago where I live, 2 Christian pastors got dragged before the courts for making a perceived dispariging comment about the Koran, in their own Church. If I recal correctly they were ordered to apologise to the offended party (and pay a fine if my memory serves). It is instances of state sanctioned PC-mania like this that turn the whole PC thing into an issue.

If it just a case of good manners and respecting others, I'm all for that. I imagine the vast majority of people would be, but the problem is that that what you might term "extreme" cases, are increasingly becoming the norm.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Sure, I agree with you regarding the stripping away of the concept of "otherness", but I would have to disagree with you that it isn't about social homogenisation.

The issue I have, and I suspect most other people have, is that it is no longer acceptable to differentiate between to groups, individuals etc., where the minority group may possibly perceive that differentiation as unfavourable (again, not taking a potshot at any minority group).

If I point out that in Australia, Aboriginal people are proportionaly over-represented in out prison system, I'm labeled racist, reagrdless of how true the statement may be.

If I say that generally, women aren't as phyically capable as men, I get labelled a sexist, regardless of the biological truth of the matter.

I'm sure most people could add a similar example. It is becoming less and less acceptable to acknowledge any differences between groups. When people stop and realise that we are all different, and all have strengths and weaknesses, and stop taking offense everytime someone happens to highlight one of those weaknesses, society will be better off for it.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Chilled Zen Get people to speak their minds more! Tell the truth, be honest it is almost always the right thing to do.

I trust your principals will hold equally true the next time your wife asks "Does this make me look fat?"

I always answered truthfully. If she looked fat I told her. The last thing I wanted to hear was that she heard somebody else say she looked fat and I didn't have the stones to tell her.....Of course I'm now divorced so........

!!

Well, it's all in how one couches one's remarks, isn't it. And that goes for manners in general.

I hate PC and won't bow down to the principle of worrying about 'Feelings'! No one seems to worry about offending me so turn about is just fine!

Again, I maintain that you can't slag the concept in general on the basis of it's excesses. A friend of mine died of ALS. At the dedication of a park in his name, he was referred to as having become 'differently able. I was incensed at this PC tripe...he didn't do that...he got sick, and then he died.

On the other hand, when dealing with the native community up here, some groups self-identify as First Nation, some as Aboriginal, some as Indians. Lots of PC to wade through, but unless told otherwise, I call them Indian. But I do it with respect, and I don't get called on it.

In my experience, mean-spirited people can always justify being insensitive to the feelings of others. It's also called bad manners

Originally posted by Brownsy
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Sure, I agree with you regarding the stripping away of the concept of "otherness", but I would have to disagree with you that it isn't about social homogenisation.

The issue I have, and I suspect most other people have, is that it is no longer acceptable to differentiate between to groups, individuals etc., where the minority group may possibly perceive that differentiation as unfavourable (again, not taking a potshot at any minority group).

If I point out that in Australia, Aboriginal people are proportionaly over-represented in out prison system, I'm labeled racist, reagrdless of how true the statement may be.

That would kinda depend both upon the point you were trying to make with that statistic, and where the complainant is coming from. We have a similar circumstance with the native Canadian population. To denigrate them as a people on that basis would be racist. To acknowledge systemic societal problems that contribute to that figure is not.

Again...it's like the guy that says I don't know much about pornography, but I know it when I see it. Let common sense prevail. I hear lots of mean-spirited racial bias...hell, all kinds of provocative nonsense shows up on this site in the guise of a disingenuous query.

If I say that generally, women aren't as phyically capable as men, I get labelled a sexist, regardless of the biological truth of the matter.I'm sure most people could add a similar example.

How much does that have to do with a 'glass ceiling' for women? Collateral damage from years of inequality...let the womenfolk chime in on this one

It is becoming less and less acceptable to acknowledge any differences between groups. When people stop and realise that we are all different, and all have strengths and weaknesses, and stop taking offense everytime someone happens to highlight one of those weaknesses, society will be better off for it.

So why not celebrate the strengths inherent in a diverse society instead of wasting energy 'highlighting the weaknesses'? Two of the biggest events in Toronto...which bring in hundreds of thousands of visitors and millions of their dollars...are the annual Pride festival, and Caribana. We have ethnic neighbourhoods all over the city, and they all have celebrations of their culture that bring in folks from all over the city.

The US has its 'melting pot'...we have the 'cultural mosaic'...we end up being less fragmented as a result. And we tend to respect 'the other' a lot more. And if it takes a generation of PC to help that along...without, of course, the shrill extremes that accompany any movement...then I'm fine with it. It simply doesn't threaten me.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Johnny,
Don't get me wrong. I don't go out of my way to be insensitive but by the same token, I won't let anyone belittle me either if I use terms (That change like socks) they don't agree with. That lady I spoke of in my last post was First Nations, Passomoquoddy ( Children of the Dawn ) and I know what you mean by having to jump through hoops to know what is considered the 'label of the day' and not offend!

Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone I don't go out of my way to be insensitive but by the same token, I won't let anyone belittle me either if I use terms (That change like socks) they don't agree with.

Oh I hear you. First generation German-Canadian...I know about collective guilt, but I figure that ends with my lot and my son is rid of it.

So we both went out and got matching Bundesadler tattoos

I call it channeling my inner Kraut.