2012 is a trap to get you to freak out and/or convert to new age spirituality

Originally posted by bonsaisert
I think you've missed the whole point of 2012 to be honest.

The way you have described it is what you have gotten out of your research but that does not mean to say that others have to look at it in the same way. Nor does it give you the right to tell others how to perceive it.

If all you have got from it is fear then I don't think you're looking at it properly or perhaps you aren't covering it from all angles.

Don't watch discovery channel documentaries about it because they ARE sensationalist and may well scare you however from the research I have done I haven't picked up any scaremongering nor have I felt scared at any point.

randomguy, please respond to the above. it is probably the best answer of the thread that you will get. and quite possibly agree on.

you cannot throw words like New Age and 2012 around without properly defining what you mean. New Age is a subjective term. there is no "rules" or book outlining what New Age means. 2012 also means different things to different people. please define these vague terms so they can be properly argued against. otherwise the discussion doesn't work out (kind of like how this thread is all over the place)

Now, I've been following the whole 2012 thing for the past few months here and I've been talking to different people who have different opinions on what is going to happen. I follow all of the aspects of it along with following other movements that are going on right now like the NWO and crop circles and things like that. Honestly, I follow these just to follow them and actually I take part in most of them. IMO, it's where you get your experience and live life when you look at all the different views that people have on life and how those views reflect the way they interact with the world around them. To completely dismiss people who are a part of these movements as completely nuts, without actually taking the time and trying to relate to how these people see everything and how they interact with people is being ignorant. I don't think we're supposed to develop one main belief system in life and just follow that until we die. To look at how different people look at the world gives you more of a full perspective on how we as a species view the world around us. From what I have gathered in the few months conversing with normal everyday people who have these ascension beliefs about 2012 are some of the nicest people with the greatest of intentions for the human race. I'm not talking about the people who are the most popular informants of this movement who sell all these dvd's and books, as I think you're correct, a lot of these people are in it for the money. The normal people, though, only want all the violence and greed and corruption of the world that has brought us to where we are today to stop and to start new, where there's mutual respect for every human being. Is this not a positive way of thinking about our future? Now, regarding the aliens of the GFL coming down and "saving" us all from the clutches of the Illuminati, I have no opinion either way on whether it's true or not. Sure, I think it would be great if we can actually get a boost to help us get on the right path, but ultimately if we want change in this world, we have to do it ourselves. The idea of a better world where people treat everyone with respect and the hatred and fear is gone is being planted in these people and whether or not all the light shows and first contact and all of that happens, that initial thought is still in our minds. The surrounding information regarding that thought is irrelevant at this point. Think of it this way, they're talking about a consciousness evolution of the human race happening in 2012. You can throw in all the bells and whistles about how to explain it, but what if it's just our realization that as a collective species we can create pretty much whatever we want and create our own reality ourselves. If every person on this planet all worked towards one main goal or believed the same thing, just think of the massive amount of potential that it could create, destructive or beneficial. So, instead of looking at what the opinions of reality of these people and how to explain it, look at their underlying ideas of the movements and if these would be beneficial or lead to destruction. The people claiming doom and gloom in 2012 are nothing like the people who believe in ascension. They may be using some of the same information, but their ideals are completely different and that's what's important.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Sirius20]

Originally posted by randomguy

The purpose of theese theorys/videos are obviously fear, disinformation, and "brainwashing" new converts into new age stuff.

new age spiritualiuty thing, because it provides a solution to their fear of the incoming big doom, they convert to this new age spirituality.

You keep mentioning that these theories bring fear, disinformation and 'brainwashing' of new converts into new age stuff.

But what do you mean by 'new age stuff'?
We don't really know.
Perhaps if people were to change for the better and change their attitudes of thinking and accept who they are, it may be good if such a new paradigm shift happens and if it brings better understanding of the world.

So I wouldn't hastily jump into any conclusions.
We don't really know what is going to happen or not going to happen.

reply to post by Norio Hayakawa


Hi Norio/

New Age stuff is actually nothing new!

New Age just sounds good on the exterior...fooling ALOT of people is it's purpose!
Many people do not know or understand what lies behind the curtain...they just follow without knowing it's purpose behind it.(research and you will find alot more then you think)
It's all about bringing back Worship of the Gods and false spirituality,one big false peacefull spirituality that has no meaning...the exact same thing that caused the Flood in the Old Testament was because of the ways people lived their lives...Sodom and Gomorrah is what comes to mind....Comparing the last times with the time before the deluge the Apostle Peter says: "As God did not spare the ancient world (as in the days of Noah) bringing in the flood on the ungodly … and turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Pet. 2:5-9)...The same will happen again, only this time, it is the end of wordly life.
God allowed the people to turn away from all this,He instructed the Prophet but the people enjoyed their earthly,wordly ways and forgot that man was once
The purpose of this is very clear...To Bring a WORLD government and control the people....it began when LUCIFER wanted to be GOD,but how could he, if God was God!
When Lucifer lost his place in the Angelic realm,he vowed that he would become god and he does this in very clever, cunning and disastrous way.
Satan is set in his ways...he wont turn back because of PRIDE and so he wants that extra company once it's all over!

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


You are preaching something to us that somebody told you, that I have heard before, to which you have contributed very little personal thought.

Do you have experience with any of these other cultures and belief systems, just as old as, if not older than your own, which you have such a violent disposition towards? Or do you just listen to what other people, similarly without any experience of what these beliefs actually are, and mimic their hostile opinions?

Have you ever considered that your hostility towards these other cultures is not godly, and is the same sort of hostility that spawned the Crusades against the Muslims, ignorantly killing millions of people? Killing people was supposed to be against your "rules," remember? Most people consider hatred and intolerance of other cultures a "bad" thing.


But seriously. What do YOU know about Taoism, Buddhism or Hinduism? Besides that it's all demons from Hell telling us lies, because you know we're not going to believe that bed time story any more than I personally believe the mythologies of Hinduism. These are all different systems of encoding REAL spiritual knowledge, which you are currently unaware of. Your own religion has encoded a lot of this knowledge just the same as the other systems, as God is the same God all over the world, but you being caught in the secular, literalist, somewhat racist and totally removed-from-God version of your religion, don't know anything about that.

What makes your name for God ("God") any better than anyone else's? What makes you think your idea of what the Absolute is, or the Creator of Everything... what makes you think your ideas on that exact same subject are the only ones that are right, that you just happened to be born in the ONLY part of the world that practices the CORRECT way of "believing"? What are the odds? I guess God put you here in a Christian country, while so much of the rest of the world inherently believes other things similarly without question, just to test your faith, and that the devil is still after you, right? Can you really not tell one bed-time story from another? Tell me why you don't believe in Greek mythology, but have no trouble believing all number of these other things at all?

reply to post by bsbray11


Hi bsb/

Actually, I am speaking from Experience!
Also many experiences of other people ,who also had similar stories ...closest to me was my dad!
In fact lots of it, that I dont need to go into, in this thread!
This is why I posted about New Age...otherwise it would be just stupid of me to post on something of which I have knowledge of,dont you think!
As for tolerant?
I am very tolerant of other peoples faiths and beleifs...do I have to agree with what they believe in?
No, I do not!
This does not make me hostile to other faiths...I dont know where you come up with all you have plainly stated,seems to me it is you that is unable to grasp what I have to say!
Why would I fear the devil?
Is he God?
...he only wishes!
You also said I was violent against?
I am not violent against anyone...actually, never have I been a violent person...especially when it comes to religious beliefs...so please, dont attack me.
I also believe in Greek Mythology...my views are different now days, is all!
Its because of what I experienced that I also came to be where I am today...

We are all human beings...we are all made equal and for me to think myself better then the next person is making a joke of Gods Word!

I dont understand what brought you to say that I dont tolerate other beliefs?
I can honestly say I dont tolerate child molestors or the like...But that is my opinion and my right to do so.

Take care,
ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by randomguy


Actually, the whole 2012 thing is a shining beacon of people simply wallowing in ignorance.

Know what happens, according to the Maya?

You start counting from 0.0.0.0.0 again.

It is no more significant than moving from December 31st to January 1st. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the Maya and other mesoamerican cultures that used the three-calendar system can tell you this.

But I suppose it's just much more fun to think the Maya were spacefaring Atlanteans who had mastered crystal harmonics and used the awesome world-shattering power to predict the ultimate end of everything. You know, before a three-year drought crushed the heart of their civilization which was then overrun by the Zapotec. Bet the ol' 8-ball didn't see THAT one coming.

This thread is a trap to get us to freak out about getting trapped and freaking out!
Oh no!!!

Originally posted by Geladinhu
This thread is a trap to get us to freak out about getting trapped and freaking out!
Oh no!!!

Hi Geladinhu/


So, dont go getting trapped or freaked, otherwise you might end up a freak!



ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


Well I guess my trouble is I just can't really distinguish what is "new age" to you and what's legitimate. How do you define it exactly?

reply to post by bsbray11


Hi bsb/

What exactly do you want me to define?
The definition of New Age?
Do not the Words speak for itself?
New Age....a new epoch/time

An account of my New age involvement?

ICXC NIKA
helen

what you're suggesting wouldn't be what ...say... Christianity had done in the past now would it?

think twice about what you are really trying to "protect"

new age thinking isn't so much a set book of rules..
it's a composite of ideas and idiologies that is always growing with no boundaries..

i'd never say "hello I am so and so and I belong to the new age church"..
that's completely contrary to my nature and restricts my mind to certain concrete boundaries.

maybe you should try to un-learn what you think "new age" really is.. ie: what you see on the surface... the kooky venier..

and attempt to research actual mythological symbolism and deep knowledge that's part of what this is all heading towards.

I don't reject any religion based on my immediate judgement of what i "think it's about" .. i learn all aspects of the religion and take what i can from it.

you don't have to be so black and white about it all.

-

reply to post by helen670


This is what made me think you had a more specific understanding of what "new age" means to you:

Originally posted by helen670
This is why I posted about New Age...otherwise it would be just stupid of me to post on something of which I have knowledge of,dont you think!

I still don't understand what offends you about the term "new age," or what specifically you associate with the movement that you don't like, besides a lot of things you keep saying about it being deceitful. I still don't know what you're even talking about.

You also said you believed in Greek mythology. Not sure if that was a typo or what. Just curious as to what your position is, having said these things.

reply to post by bsbray11


Hi bs/

The Greek Mythology is what I was taught in Greek School growing up!

There are good and bad to be learn't in all religious systems, but there can be only One true Answer?
1+1= 2
1+1 cannot equal 2 or 3 or 4
This is how I see it...this does not mean that I detest others for what they believe,each to his own I guess!
My opinion(thoughts/mind) is not entirely my own,as my thinking/logic at times confuses me.
The MIND is something of which many pay no attention to,so I try my best in getting up after each fall and believe me, the falls are plenty and if one falls and stays down,it becomes less easier to get up each time!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670
There are good and bad to be learn't in all religious systems, but there can be only One true Answer?
1+1= 2

5 - 3 is also 2.

So is (-5) + 7.

There are actually an infinite number of problems that have a common solution with the number "2."

1+1 cannot equal 2 or 3 or 4

That's only because of the way we have defined the algorithm for addition. Similarly if we have a very narrow definition of "God," we are bound to be very limited in our beliefs and understanding of nature and the rest of the universe. And of course condescending to other cultures and all the rest. But there is also multiplication and division, exponents, trigonometry, all sorts of things out there that (in this metaphor) a Christian man or woman (or a man or woman exclusive to ANY faith) has yet to understand. That doesn't invalidate those processes or make them wrong, they are simply outside out of his/her experiences so far.

In truth there is not a single thing in creation (not an atom, not a person, a belief, a demon, or an entire galaxy) that is not the ultimate result of One Thing, regardless of what name you want to give it, what culture you came from, even science is looking for just this One Thing that births all of existence. There is nothing that it has not been responsible for. You can't deny this without denying that you are in fact looking for the absolute and supreme.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by bsbray11]

Yes, the IHC is a viral movie marketing ploy.
But they do link to realities.


The Alliance to Rescue Civilization is Real!

Ok readers, check this out:

If you keep a cool head you will easily see right through this 2012 / new age hooplah.

The next time you watch one of those videos, when the main character makes one of those outrageous claims, ask him this question in your mind:

"What evidence do you have for this ?"

You will see that there is alot of superficial baloney: nice pictures (fractals and stuff), new age music, etc, but nothing that actually proves something.

Their evidence is equal to zero.

My post has been made exaclty because of this.

The simple fact that there are so many diferent 2012 theorys out there, from planet x to solar burst, to consciousness shift, etc, etc, should prove to any rational person that all theese people canot be all right at once.

You dont even have to look at their videos.

But if you were to look at theese videos, what you would see is this: pseudoscience, and hear say, useless stuff nicely wrapped in pretty pictures and aluring music.


* * * * Part 2: * * * *

There are two categories of new agers / 2012-ers:

The people who are making money off it, and the naive belivers.

Now all theese new age suporters get upset because I dont respect the "opinions" of the money makers, or those of the naive belivers.

Of course I dont, and neither should you.

You should respect EVIDENCE, and not OPINION.

Now a couple of guys in this thread are saying "my research" has gotten me theese results, but some other people`s research will get them diferent results, bla bla bla, and how I am not respecting the opinions of all theese groups of what is going to happen, etc, etc

Their reasearch wouldnt get them any other result if they based their conclusions on evidence.


I say they have no evidence, and of course they cant refute me on that, since indeed they have zero evidence.


What they do instead is misdirect your attention to sometihing else. The "diferent paths" thing is a classic phrase they use to imply that I have an agenda..

"Different results" is a variation of.


This type of misdirection or spin is called a strawman logical falacy. (look up strawman on google)

reply to post by randomguy


Honestly RG.
If someone believes contrary to yourself, the answer is not to accuse them of being naive.
It is also counter productive to be beligerent.
Faith comes in many flavours.
As a responsible member of humanity (you are expressing a desire to protect...in your own way) it is better to simply expose the fallacies and obvious fraudulent abusers of anothers desire to believe.

My concerns lie not in whether any or all 2012 predictions are correct and/or false. (For surely not all, if any, can be). But in how to soften the blow when, and this is my opinion only, nothing happens.

There does appear to be many young (and some not so young) impressionable minds here.
So I say once again respect their faith and you may find it reciprocal. Afterall progress may be rapid during conflict, but not all conflict must be belligerent.

What's the point of arguing about this kind of a thing? Honestly, no matter what any of us, including me, think, whatever happens on 2012 will happen and we'll find out when we get there. Let's say we all die in 2012. If that is what you believe, why argue this point? People die, that's a fact of life. I could step out the door tomorrow and get hit by a car and die, it wouldnt make a damn difference to me if the world ended in 2012 then, would it? Every single human being alive today will someday die. Some will say to this "one person dies, another is born. but if every person dies, the whole race dies out". Let's address this statement from 2 perspectives: atheist and religious.

Religious people, you know that us people shouldn't be worrying about temporary things that happen on earth and we should think about the bigger, eternal picture.

Atheists, if we die and nothing happens afterwards, what difference would it make if we all die at once? On a bigger scale we're a tiny planet in a huge universe, you could say none of what happens here matters. What matters is our perception of it, right here, right now. Not the perception of december 21, 2012, but the perception of the present, july 27th, 2009 (or whatever the present date is, it changes everyday). Now, why does it matter who's right? Why does it matter if atheists are right and 2012 is just another day? Atheists will say that they want to warn people that all the money they're spending on 'surviving 2012' books is a waste. Honestly, warning about such a thing is simply pointless. People are evil. People would scam each other regardless of whether there's a doomsday rumor or not, con-men have been around for a long time.

2012 proponents will say that the reason why their argument matters is because they want to save people from dying. I already discussed why worrying about death is pointless earlier in my post. Now, if the proponents are coming from a religious standpoint and saying that bad people will go to hell on 2012, what's the point of bringing the 2012 thing into the play here? Shouldn't you be trying to convince people to be good in heart and do good deeds instead of trying to prove what will happen on 2012?

For the new age people, the answer doesn't matter either. Whatever happens happens, time will roll on and we'll find out, but arguing about it won't do anything. If it truly is the age of enlightenment, why argue with other people that it is? I mean, according to your beliefs, the world will be enlightened in 2012, right? So, why try to prove it to others who don't believe you instead of waiting for it to actually happen so those people can see for themselves?

Really, no one will win this argument cause we're arguing about something that hasn't even happened yet. All of this is pointless, including me posting a reply, cause there will be people who'll challenge me and in the end the argument will continue. I'm not gonna reply or try to argue anymore, I've already wasted too much time typing this up, I'm not gonna waste anymore. The only reason why I typed this is cause I lack the maturity to accept my own advice and not worry about what others say about this topic. I do have my own beliefs about 2012, none of them have been mentioned in this thread though (and I will not bring them up, that'll just start a whole new argument). I shall add that I'm not an atheist, but at the same time I'm not gonna defend any religion on the arguments they make against each other/atheists, cause arguing who's right and who's wrong instead of following your religion and not interfering with other's lives is pointless and will lead to a dead end. It seems like people would rather waste their lives arguing that their beliefs are right instead of actually following those beliefs (and this statement will be challenged too, people will say 'but our religion tells us to convert people', I have things to say to that as well, but I'm done arguing).

oh wow, well said EdCase512, agree with you 100%, no purpose for my post here, his view is pretty much a better way to look at this, i wish i waited a bit more and saw that post before posting mine lol