Christianity is finished in the UK "Well thank god for that!", page 18
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reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 05:34 AM by DASFEX
Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by DASFEX


Yes, religion has deluded multitudes of people.

Jesus isn't about that. He gets damned, but He shouldn't.


Yeah I agree, Religion "preys" on people (no pun) but I also think the atrocities done in the name of religion has been over used and so exaggerated its ludicrous to keep brining up past crimes that happened in centuries ago.

Religion causes all wars?

Even if it did, the number of Americans killed by medical science in the last ten years far exceeds the total number of Americans killed by war in U.S. history. If medical science can justly claim to have saved many lives, it must also take responsibility for the estimated 783,000 iatrogenic deaths it causes every year.

Man has survived millennias of religious faiths, but if the prophets of over-population and global warming are correct, he may not survive these last two centuries of science.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 05:53 AM by DASFEX
Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by DASFEX


By the way, if you can't tell I am a woman, may the Lord help you in your relationships with women.

How dumb is that? You think that a man would be so sensitive?


I don't have any relationships with woman, I have friendships with them and they are very guarded. I reserved the relationship for just one in particular. Yes I agree I can never get too much advice on understanding woman, they are an enigma.

Case in point:

1.) The idea they would think their gender is recognizable merely because they seemed surprised by someone committing suicide over religion. That can just as easily be seen as naivete and not a females sensitivities

2) If you had any idea how many guys pose as females online, you wil understand why when you say you are a female, I can only say "if you say so" I still wouldn't know but Ill take your word for it if it even matters.

3)

I apologize for being presumptuous but without knowing the odds are in my favor that you would be a male so I took the harmless risk. It certainly wasn't meant to insult you using the words "C'mon guy"


You think that a man would be so sensitive?


sensitive as what? lets hear how sexist YOU can get



[edit on 11-7-2009 by DASFEX]


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 06:54 AM by Imago Dei








reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 06:55 AM by Imago Dei
Originally posted by Angus123
Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by moocowman


...You can't just cross out the creator of the very universe chap. Your in for a very rud awakening, when you will go spiralling of into outer darkness like a spinning X for eterinity.




[edit on 10-7-2009 by Imago Dei]


Well it could be worse. I could end up in Heaven with all the XIANS.
So given that option... I'll take what's behind door #2. I hope it's RUD!

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Angus123]


Good it wouldnt be heaven if you where there!


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 07:11 AM by d60944
When you say "Christian Theology", you assume that all Christians hold value or importance in the Trinity. The Trinity is just another detail of Christianity that not all Christians can agree upon. So while what you say may be true in his case, it also may not be.


Now that's just a straw-man, showing your lack of understanding. Sure, you can find some people calling themselves Christians who won't believe in a Trinity. The mainstream says that Jesus is God, and therefore was not created at the incarnation, merely, well, incarnated then. There were fights over this in the first few centuries and the issue has been settled in the mainstream definitively. While all Christians may not agree on what precislely the Trinity means (and don't believe for a moment the words of anyone who claims to have actually fully understood it), it is a core belief nonetheless, even if not expressed with as much vigour as the RC church likes to.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church describes the Trinity as "the central dogma of Christian theology"


Straw man.

In a literal sense, could you point me to the part of the Bible that says that Jesus created the universe? Regardless if Jesus was "there" in some sort of spiritual or non-physical way, it was God who created the universe, not Jesus.


Well, given that Christianity says that Jesus IS God, and the he was present at creation, and that I have provided Biblical quotes that demonstrate this, the onus is rather on you to provide quotes from scripture that specifty that somehow the Son was NOT involved in the creation. As I recall, the creation stories (I hesitate to call them either accounts or myths), speak only of "God" (and refer to his Spirit - which seems to be a more poetic element than a meaningful reference to the NT Paraclete).

But given as you want me to point at things for you, the opening of the Gospel of John talks about all this for you - ref given in my previous post. I'm sure all this is all familiar to you:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men...

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him...


There is a distinction, otherwise Jesus wouldn't be the son of God.


The Wiki article on the Trinity barely scratches the surface of the complexity. But this distintion between Jesus and God, as a real matter of substance, is a red herring:

The term "Son" is a term describing in some way the relationships between the elements of a single truine God. It is not a way to show their derivative nature from a single other source. "Son" does not mean son in the sense of the human progenetive relationship. We could discuss the meanings of the relationships within the Trinity for years - as indeed people have been doing (one of the extant distinctions between the RC and Eatern Orthodox churches is the Nicene Creed's "filioque" clause - and how this implies the progenitive nature of Father and Son, and what precisely this all means).... but in essence, a fundamental distincton of substance as a way to distinguish Jesus and "God" is not something you'll find in normal Christian belief. And it's also pretty irrelevant to this thread...... :-)

Caveat - again, this is not a post in defence of doctrine itself, but a post showing that your claims of internal contradictions are unfounded.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 07:25 AM by Bunken Drum
reply to post by DASFEX
The big mistake is we haven't been fundamentalist ENOUGH! and need to remove all our kids from public schools enmasse and let geration x's generation next the children of the grave continue to learn all about transgenderism, contemporary gays sex lifestyles in, regular visits abd guest speakers from planned parenthood, while they coninue to sell methamphetamines and xtasy thinking we all came from the primordial slime and that life is just what we observe in nature and if ya see a monkey doin it in public, we know its ok for us to do too.
Watch this space... The pressure's building. He's gonna blow!
Actually it sounds like he badly needs to get blown. I hope he hasn't got any firearms.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 02:51 PM by moocowman
reply to post by Imago Dei




HAH HAH, Christian Britain, has never been alive. You pathetic anti -Christs still havent got a clue whats going on. You God haters and God mockers are on your stinking last legs, and I thank God for that.



Wow dude you speak to tour wife like that ? And this is the example of debate you would have our children learn ?



They remove Christ from Christmas and made it Xmas,


Dude you need to understand that xmas was a pagan festival hijacked by christianity, go to a library or something.



they're now removing Christ from Christianity and making it xianit
y.

Dude if jesus wants' his name inxtianity then who could stop a god if he is real ?

Clearly he either doesn't want his name in xtianity or he is imaginary.


Tell me son, what could I have possibly done to you that hurt you so much, that makes you want to hurt me so bad in order to heal yourself ?


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 03:05 PM by moocowman
reply to post by DASFEX




I don't have any relationships with woman, I have friendships with them and they are very guarded. I reserved the relationship for just one in particular. Yes I agree I can never get too much advice on understanding woman, they are an enigma. 2) If you had any idea how many guys pose as females online, you wil understand why when you say you are a female, I can only say "if you say so" I still wouldn't know but Ill take your word for it if it even matters.



Well all looks a bit homosexual to me my friend, not that I have anything against gay people, I may well decide to try it myself one day who knows what the future can bring eh ?

Being a homosexual struggling against natural tendencies within a a homophobic religion, would go a long way to explaining your hate toward anyone that would question your fragile faith.

Dude as far as I can see, jesus didn't seem to have a problem with gay people it is Yahweh that will have them killed.

Why not do yourself a big favour, go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air, look to the sky and say jesus I love you and I'm gay.

You will probably find a huge weight lifted off your shoulders and feel a lot less bitter toward women.

Remember son, your mother didn't do this to you no one did anything to you, you are you. Go out there and be yourself, I guarantee you this, if jesus is real and a decent bloke as claimed then he'll not love you any less.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by moocowman]


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 03:24 PM by moocowman
reply to post by SheaWolf




The main reason for our lack of attendance is the economy, we simply cannot afford to go to the church of our choice.


That's interesting to hear, you know when I can't get out and about to see my friends they come to see me which is cool.
Why don't your church friends come to see you may I politely as possible ask.?




For many it isn't so much their faith in Christianity that is failing but their faith in the church and its ability


That seems an odd thing to hear, as I understand it faith is believing is something without the requirement of evidence of its' reality. So as a church is evidently a very real thing, then no faith is required in a church, their just places where types of people hang out.





Once a church starts deviating and allowing things that have always been taboo, it's only right that the people should turn away from it.



That seems like a strange response as it was church leaders that made the things that were taboo, taboo to begin with.

So it would appear that the decline of xtianity may partially be due to the flock not liking what god is telling the church leaders to tell them. Which is very strange as the sheeple have always done what they've been told in the past.

Perhaps you are better off without the churches and other people after all, you and your hubby can just do as the bible tells you without needing anyone else to tell you what to think.

I wouldn't worry too much about fellowship the thing because the consensus of xtian opinion is, that these are the end times right now so your going to be dead/alive and off to heaven soon, wheres some xtians claim you won't know each other anyway not even your spouse .


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 04:28 PM by StaringBack
Originally posted by d60944
When you say "Christian Theology", you assume that all Christians hold value or importance in the Trinity. The Trinity is just another detail of Christianity that not all Christians can agree upon. So while what you say may be true in his case, it also may not be.


Now that's just a straw-man, showing your lack of understanding. Sure, you can find some people calling themselves Christians who won't believe in a Trinity. The mainstream says that Jesus is God, and therefore was not created at the incarnation, merely, well, incarnated then. There were fights over this in the first few centuries and the issue has been settled in the mainstream definitively. While all Christians may not agree on what precislely the Trinity means (and don't believe for a moment the words of anyone who claims to have actually fully understood it), it is a core belief nonetheless, even if not expressed with as much vigour as the RC church likes to.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church describes the Trinity as "the central dogma of Christian theology"


Straw man.

In a literal sense, could you point me to the part of the Bible that says that Jesus created the universe? Regardless if Jesus was "there" in some sort of spiritual or non-physical way, it was God who created the universe, not Jesus.


Well, given that Christianity says that Jesus IS God, and the he was present at creation, and that I have provided Biblical quotes that demonstrate this, the onus is rather on you to provide quotes from scripture that specifty that somehow the Son was NOT involved in the creation. As I recall, the creation stories (I hesitate to call them either accounts or myths), speak only of "God" (and refer to his Spirit - which seems to be a more poetic element than a meaningful reference to the NT Paraclete).

But given as you want me to point at things for you, the opening of the Gospel of John talks about all this for you - ref given in my previous post. I'm sure all this is all familiar to you:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men...

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him...


There is a distinction, otherwise Jesus wouldn't be the son of God.


The Wiki article on the Trinity barely scratches the surface of the complexity. But this distintion between Jesus and God, as a real matter of substance, is a red herring:

The term "Son" is a term describing in some way the relationships between the elements of a single truine God. It is not a way to show their derivative nature from a single other source. "Son" does not mean son in the sense of the human progenetive relationship. We could discuss the meanings of the relationships within the Trinity for years - as indeed people have been doing (one of the extant distinctions between the RC and Eatern Orthodox churches is the Nicene Creed's "filioque" clause - and how this implies the progenitive nature of Father and Son, and what precisely this all means).... but in essence, a fundamental distincton of substance as a way to distinguish Jesus and "God" is not something you'll find in normal Christian belief. And it's also pretty irrelevant to this thread...... :-)

Caveat - again, this is not a post in defence of doctrine itself, but a post showing that your claims of internal contradictions are unfounded.


So when a person opens the book of Genesis, it will tell them that Jesus created the heavens and the Earth? It will tell them that Jesus created Adam and Eve? No.

The Trinity is the 3 being the same "spiritually", but that doesn't mean that each of the 3 don't have their own distinctions and traits. For instance, in the story, God did not die on the cross, Jesus did. See what I'm saying?

The distinction is not a red herring at all. Saying that God and Jesus are exactly the same thing contradicts the *important* role Jesus plays in the book itself.

Obi Wan and Yoda were with Luke "spiritually" when he defeated Darth Vader, but Luke is still the one who did it.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 05:01 PM by Angus123
Originally posted by Imago Dei
Originally posted by Angus123
Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by moocowman


...You can't just cross out the creator of the very universe chap. Your in for a very rud awakening, when you will go spiralling of into outer darkness like a spinning X for eterinity.




[edit on 10-7-2009 by Imago Dei]


Well it could be worse. I could end up in Heaven with all the XIANS.
So given that option... I'll take what's behind door #2. I hope it's RUD!

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Angus123]


Good it wouldnt be heaven if you where there!


It is times like these I almost wish your Jesus was real so he could smack you upside the head for claiming to follow him but doing nothing of the sort.


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 05:05 PM by StaringBack
Originally posted by Angus123
Originally posted by Imago Dei
Originally posted by Angus123
Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by moocowman


...You can't just cross out the creator of the very universe chap. Your in for a very rud awakening, when you will go spiralling of into outer darkness like a spinning X for eterinity.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Imago Dei]


Well it could be worse. I could end up in Heaven with all the XIANS.
So given that option... I'll take what's behind door #2. I hope it's RUD!

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Angus123]


Good it wouldnt be heaven if you where there!


It is times like these I almost wish your Jesus was real so he could smack you upside the head for claiming to follow him but doing nothing of the sort.


Thank you! That was my original point about this Imago Dei guy that I was trying to make. Some how it got turned into 2 pages of this "Trinity" and "son doesn't mean son" bull****.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by StaringBack]


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 05:41 PM by Bunken Drum
So I came across this (not literally :lol which may shed some light on religion vs sex:

Better than sex
The first clinical evidence to link the temporal lobes with religious sensations came from monitoring how TLE patients responded to sets of words. In an experiment where people were shown either neutral words (table), erotic words (sex) or religious words (god), the control group was most excited by the sexually loaded words. This was picked up as a sweat response on the skin. People with temporal lobe epilepsy did not share this apparent sense of priorities. For them, religious words generated the greatest reaction. Sexual words were less exciting than neutral ones.
God on the brain

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
So if a person becomes a religious leader after temporal lobe epilepsy leads to powerful religious visions, as the article speculates St Paul, amongst others, did, then we can expect that they were more stimulated by a table than sex, but that god trumped both.
I'd imagine that if someone just didn't get it, all that bed-squeaking, or, heaven forfend, table rattling & banging, moaning & grunting, laughing, yelling, squealing & screaming, would have become very annoying. All those people enjoying themselves in a way that made no sense to the afflicted... probably would make such a person jealous too.



reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 07:16 PM by moocowman
Originally posted by Bunken Drum
So I came across this (not literally :lol which may shed some light on religion vs sex:

Better than sex
The first clinical evidence to link the temporal lobes with religious sensations came from monitoring how TLE patients responded to sets of words. In an experiment where people were shown either neutral words (table), erotic words (sex) or religious words (god), the control group was most excited by the sexually loaded words. This was picked up as a sweat response on the skin. People with temporal lobe epilepsy did not share this apparent sense of priorities. For them, religious words generated the greatest reaction. Sexual words were less exciting than neutral ones.
God on the brain

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
So if a person becomes a religious leader after temporal lobe epilepsy leads to powerful religious visions, as the article speculates St Paul, amongst others, did, then we can expect that they were more stimulated by a table than sex, but that god trumped both.
I'd imagine that if someone just didn't get it, all that bed-squeaking, or, heaven forfend, table rattling & banging, moaning & grunting, laughing, yelling, squealing & screaming, would have become very annoying. All those people enjoying themselves in a way that made no sense to the afflicted... probably would make such a person jealous too.


Oops I just somehow managed to delete my response to Dasfex, bit long winded to retype no I'll do it later. Nice find bunken drum star for that.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by moocowman]


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 09:57 PM by 297GT
reply to post by moocowman


I find your signature offensive...
Can you tell me what I do that you hate....you don't even know me or ANYTHING I do.

Dont be so pig headed, while I am a Christian...think of this I dont hate every thing a Muslim do nor Buddhists, nor, non believers, new agers, or any of those religions....
What you are saying is like ALL Americans are evil so and so's because of a few people in power....

The only faith that I know of that is not a religion is true Christianity....!!!
You would not be abale to know if I was a christian if you meet me or worked with me unless I told you...

I can say to some one who is living wrong that it is not in there best interest, but I wont judge that person if they choose to not listen. I wont preach to people but I will talk freely about my relationship with Jesus.
I use to help the homeless and told no one, I dont earn much money and freely give away money some times very large sums of cash and I dont tell people....I am a spirt but I am trapped in a human body at the moment so while I dislike the human evils that go with this vessel it really can bet totally pure, so God understands that and forgives me....
I have been justified by God thu Jesus.
Justified = just as if I have never sinned



Now again what have I dont that allows you to have such an absurd statement?


reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 11:20 PM by DASFEX
Originally posted by moocowman
Well all looks a bit homosexual to me my friend, not that I have anything against gay people, I may well decide to try it myself one day who knows what the future can bring eh ?

Being a homosexual struggling against natural tendencies within a homophobic religion, would go a long way to explaining your hate toward anyone that would question your fragile faith.


1), I am not gay, just watching guys kissing makes my skin crawl. Where you even got that idea curious to me but I assume it is a challenge to my masculinity and I guess I am supposed to blow a gasket now or? Perhaps it is your wishfull thinking and I turn you on but alas, You ain't my type and I can't see how much we have in common, what with you loving gossip and all the drama you like to indulge in on these boards.


The word, relationship suggests more of an intimate knowledge of between a woman and a man,. Being a person who doesn't take relationships with woman lightly I make sure I know who I am getting involved with and once I am committed to her,, all other woman I used to see, have lunch with, go out with an all that, are now kept at a distance where its strictly business if at work and if I am out or meet with a woman I used to be friends with, appearances can be taken the wrong way by the woman I am in a relationship with so I don't meet woman unless I am with another friend or colleague. If I go out with my girl friend and run into an old fling ex-girl friend etc,. I am cordial stay on topics of good roads good weather etc,. and gtg. That is what I meant by "guarded”.

As I said before, I don't know why I bother but I know Ill never bother again, but last time. I don't hate people who don't have the same beliefs I do, That would be you. as you are the one making war on Christains and Christianity and blah blah blah who cares, the faculty there must have sized you up as a PITA and will ignore you as I will. Your story doesn't add up and what ever the issues are or were, most won't listen to you anyway because people have a uncanny ability to go selectively deaf listening to your opinions right or wrong, none of them will know, they shut you off the moment you mock, insult or become abrasive and combative and blame them for your problem. ,

I don't hate woman and I am not bitter but if you insist on thinking I am, I won't lose any sleep over it, I need your approval like I need a 3 time loser as a mentor and role model,


Dude as far as I can see, Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with gay people it is Yahweh that will have them killed.


He most likely didn't have a problem with them. He most definitely had a problem with gays actively engaged in having sex with men and woman having sex with woman, men or woman having intercourse before marriage and sex with married woman or men when you aren't the one married to them.

Of those sex sins, homosexual sex is given the distinction of being called "an abomination" before the lord. Really doesn't matter to you anyway and everything Ive told you, gets re-posted with all kinds of presumptuous conclusions or intentionally done to irritate me. Eithe one, Ill stay at cause and move on, I am kinda bored watching you being at effect.



Why not do yourself a big favor, go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air, look to the sky and say Jesus I love you and I'm gay.


Mmmm seems the problem you are having with religion is similar to the one you are having with me, first you arbitrarily pull some gay inference out of a post where the context of it had nothing to with what or who I am having sex with and clearly states I have a relationship with one woman and not relationships with many. Most married guys don't. I just wanted to clarify what I think relationships mean more with someone thought I should have known she was a female merely by noting she was sensitive to an issue about someone who committed suicide over religion.



You will probably find a huge weight lifted off your shoulders and feel a lot less bitter toward women.


There you go again casting aspersions and being completely off the mark.

You jump to conclusions looking for bones to pick and make comments that even if they were true, aren't necessary. You do it because you enjoy pissing people off, I understand that, lots of people get off on that sort of thing. I can guarantee you, there are woman I know on these boards, I am certain they would disagree your attempt to cast me as a bitter woman hating closet homosexual who hates anyone that doesn't agree with my opinion about religion. Hell most people are secular that I know and with the exception of your mission to piss off every Christian you can because it is there fault you lost all your charm because your daughter got cooties having to be in the presence of such a contemptable class study. She'll live.



Remember son,


Jeez are you that old you can call someone old enough to remember seeing Jack Ruby get capped on TV, son?



your mother didn't do this to you no one did anything to you, you are you. Go out there and be yourself, I guarantee you this, if Jesus is real and a decent bloke as claimed then he'll not love you any less.


yeah yeah yeah whatever, *yawn*

I'd have written more but,, so far you have told me I am bitter, gay, angry, and umm young enough to be your son, but I just see that as another little jab being a condescending antagonist. You are wrong about that school about the religion about people every time someone disagrees with you, you profile them superimposing what most likely is what you think would rattle their cage etc,.

You got no class moocow and the personality of a tree stump once your angry tirade subsides.. Its been fun, but this thread is pretty much run its course and all you are doing now is instigating trouble using passive aggressive remarks and innuendo and its neither anything I aspire to, am impressed with or want to get good at because it's cool.

Just isn’t my style but you go on, have at it. Ill let ya have the last word, from what I have seen, your credibility and how far off you are, reading people and institutions, I am comfortable knowing sooner or later, everyone else will see you for who you are and what you're about and Christianity,

got nothin to do with it




[edit on 11-7-2009 by DASFEX]


reply posted on 12-7-2009 @ 12:19 AM by Angus123
reply to post by DASFEX


If you were straight you'd have never posted a long winded effeminate screed like that, lol.
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