Originally posted by yiersan
For sure, the over majority wants a better life, and more fairness, this is why corruption one of the bigger pest in this country should be wiped out, this is only one of the among hundreds if not thousands of other social issues which would need to be addressed for. This does not mean we need a Westerner to dictate what and how we should live and/or you can remotely come close to what the general consensus of the Chinese really thinks.

I'm glad you can admit that China has major issues. This is a first I've heard about it from a real Chinese. Sad to say you still appear very defensive! It seems that when anybody discusses any country others will listen. But When China comes up it is automatically perceived as if Westerners are trying to "Dictate" to China. Sounds like paranoia to me.

At least in China when you cheat and steal from everyone, and it is publicly known, you will simply get the bullet literally". It happens during that time one of the Chinese Tycoon was caught for Fraud. And just last month the corrupted Shenzhen Mayor was also caught.

Nobody said we couldn't learn from the Chinese good for you. Having said that. What does this have to do with the fact that you will continue to see unrest from within your own country? I highly doubt the riots of the past few years had anything to do with some corrupt businessmen.

You know, one thing you are right, we do see what happens in the outside world, but if we want to join the mess what we all can see in USA/Europe? Nah, we better pass it by. Don't forget one thing, you like statistics so much anyhow, There are like over 1.3-1.4 billion Chinese, where as only 7 or 8%% or so is NON-Han, and we have only trouble with Tibetans and Uygurs who combined are like 14 million people only? Which is like plus minus 1% of the pop?

Wait a minute...

aren't you the one a few post back either here or on another thread who claimed that China had a much larger % of cultural diversity more than even the US? So how is it now that the vast "Majority" Are now HAN? Also if you are so united then why is the State so controlling? I mean if the "VAST MAJORITY" are so united then why all the worries about freedoms? I say again it's your fear of the masses finding out just how shoe horned they have been into a single monolithic system that stagnates the individual.

Not to mention the inter-racial marriages going on a daily base? So, nah, we have a lesser problem with minorities than in the West I bet. As long as the the Hans are united, there is not much you can say or do to really disrupt our stability and development.

Another good example of being a Psychologically introverted society. Again I ask why is it when discussing China you automatically "ASSUME" we in the west want to disrupt your society?

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make. It's from inside and really has no outside influence. This and the other unrest/riots are the signs of a much deeper problem one that can't be swept under the rug or just not covered on a state ran media, the people themselves know whats going on and so far not even China can erase what the people think or feel. Not yet anyway...

Originally posted by gs001
when americans show their schadenfreude to china, they forget what happened in Los Angeles 1992, conflicts between ethnic groups can be
instigated in anywhere.
of course in american's eyes, china has a original sin-communist leading
country, so china don't have the right to keep its sovereignty and territory
integrity, and every conflict between ethnic groups in china must be caused by oppression.
americans are shallow-brained people, that is why the harder they promote freedom and democracy to the world, the more hatred they get from the world.

I get it! I get it! you have 3 languages. Woo hoo! I'm happy for you.

Big difference between this and LA in '92. We didn't invade LA and take it away from the indigenous blacks. Might be because there are no indigenous blacks in LA. Might be because LA was US already, so we didn't have to invade. Whatever the reason, that's the difference.

I was all set to say that China ought to wipe out the Uighirs. You've sucessfully changed my mind.

China keep it's sovereignty? Sure, just as soon as it gives the Uighirs back their sovereignty.

China keep it's territorial integrity? Sure, as soon as it gives back the Uighirs theirs.

Same goes for Tibet.

I'm shallow-brained? Sure, but at least I'm capable of the most simple logic, which you have successfully led me to.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Originally posted by yiersan

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by yiersan
There are like over 1.3-1.4 billion Chinese, where as only 7 or 8%% or so is NON-Han, and we have only trouble with Tibetans and Uygurs who combined are like 14 million people only? Which is like plus minus 1% of the pop?

Maybe if you gave them their own land back, you wouldn't have those problems with them. It's not like THEY invade CHINA.

It was kind of the other way around.

don't you get tired of this argument again? I am tired of repeating and answering the same questions over again.

I'll be tired of it when you give a logical and verifiable satisfactory answer to it.

So far you haven't. Your claim is that their territory was ALWAYS Chinese territory, but you've provided no evidence of that.

SLAYER69

I'm glad ...... like paranoia to me.

this is rather not paranoia but more like we understand more what we need than some foreigner pointing, "hey you invaded those guys, give them freedom, hey, you commit genocide, human rights blablabla". this is what is going on in reality on a daily base

besides if you DID listen before, then you will have noticed I kinda started early on already claiming we are not a perfect state

Nobody said we .... corrupt businessmen.

no, it has to do with tension built up over the past hundreds of years maybe? ever since we settled and conquered those areas like 2000 years ago conflicts have been around, claims have been around, I would simply want to quote again what I had quoted, which you have chosen to not reply upon or over-read:

National boundaries are not natural. They all arise from history, and all history is disputable. Arguments and evidence can always be found to challenge a boundary.

As for unrest in my country? You will be surprised that the past 30 years, ever since Deng XiaoPing opened up and reformed China, we had never been so stable and prosperous for hundreds of years. And like I said enough other issues, and if we keep ourselves united and relatively stable, then one day we can say, hey we came out of those black pages of the end of the 20th century, and we are at least a "developed" country now. Key is that we do maintain peace worldwide, and just smash down any separatists/terrorists.

Wait a minute...

aren't you the one ........ individual.

yes, and the article show that very well, nowhere on Earth there are still 56 different ethnic groups, given the same rights and for those minorities even more rights than the major group, who are the ones being treated unfairly relatively speaking.

maybe you still don't grasps it, governing a population of 1.4 billion with a totally different culture and history than a pity 300mln, even in your country a civil war was fought

and as you like it or not, believe it or not, different voices are heard all over the places, and guess what, the current government do try to follow the overall consensus. my theory is though that for the elite and the powerful guys it is much more beneficial if the majority is satisfied, so policies are adjusted to satisfy these "vast majority" of the population.

btw, on a side note, you know, i forecast a revolution in USA much earlier than in China

Another good example of west want to disrupt your society?

Not the common people, you and other with roughly the same opinions are probably sincerely believing that you are doing a good deed by "expressing" your voice about China, or "boycotting" Chinese made goods, protesting etc etc, because you can not distinguish from what is propaganda about China and what not anymore, so I will not hold any grudges and/or blame u.

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make. It's from inside and really has no outside influence. Not yet anyway...

But I do pity those who really believe the American government is not the one behind many (not all) of the troubles. Supporting, subsidizing, training separatists etc. NED is all over the place, CIA fingerprints can be found everywhere. Plenty of sources from non-Chinese to verify this. This is also WHAT we in China among common people do see and "feel". Of course it is an excuse and tactic used by our government too to gain more support, heck it is based on some truths anyhow, so why not make use of it? I will show you a few articles in the next post.

Originally posted by gs001
how do you know all Uigur and Tibetan want independence？

I don't. I never claimed that ALL Uighirs and Tibetans wanted independence. It's pretty clear that ENOUGH of them do, though, based on the feeds I get out of China. Enough to keep China busy with suppression operations, anyhow.

just because a small group of separatists claim that to you？

Nope. Video feeds, baby! Power of the internet, a Truly wondrous thing. Looks like a pretty large group to me...

How's that Great Firewall working at blocking outgoing stuff?

long long before you were scalping indians on their ground, those area had already been a part of chinese empire.

I KNOW you didn't go there!
Accuse me of scalping my own? Nah. You must not have read my posts properly.

Edit: I just realized that, since you use Indians as a comparative example, and Indians are indigenous to North America, That's an implicit admission that Uighirs are indigenous to the area in question. Glad we got that cleared up.

(link to image deleted to avoid scripts)

Map image had no date on it, but it looked like it was probably 1850's to maybe 1900. I assure you, I was through "scalping indians on their own ground" LONG before that.

Let's be honest here. You're MSS for PRC, right? I'm guessing Eleventh Bureau.

How close am I?







[edit on 2009/7/10 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by gs001
what if we chinese fund them, support their independence movement,
then instigate them making riots in usa？
if their riot crackdown by usa, we immediately shout 'human rights abuse, human rights abuse'.....
unfortunately great china won't use this kind of inferior tact to deal with you like you did to china.

I would say go ahead and try you would be very hard pressed to find any Native Americans wanting to do business with some tyrants who deal in this manner with their own people who just want freedom.


Yeah she sure looks like a terrorist to me.

Originally posted by yiersan
we are at least a "developed" country now. Key is that we do maintain peace worldwide, and just smash down any separatists/terrorists.