Why are so many ATS'ers "anti-Environmentalist?"

DISPROVING ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING.

Guides:
A Global Warming Primer (PDF) (National Center for Policy Analysis)
A Skeptic’s Guide to Debunking Global Warming Alarmism (PDF) (US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee)
A Skeptical Layman's Guide to Anthropogenic Global Warming (PDF) (Climate Skeptic)
A Skeptic's Guide to An Inconvenient Truth (PDF) (Marlo Lewis Jr. Ph.D.)
Global Warming FAQ (PDF) (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Global Warming Quiz (PDF) (Richard A. Keen, Ph.D. Professor of Climatology)
Journalist's Guide To Global Warming Experts (PDF) (The Heartland Institute)
The Skeptics Handbook (PDF) (Joanne Nova, Ph.D. Meteorology)

Myths:
Fallacies about Global Warming (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
Five Biggest Myths about Global Warming (The Washington Examiner)
Global Warming Economics: Facts vs. Myths (PDF) (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Global Warming: Fact and Myth (S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science)
Global Warming: Science vs. Nonsense (PDF) (Executive Intelligence Review)
Global Warming Myths (Friends of Science)
Green Myths On Global Warming - Debunked (The Association of British Drivers, UK)
Heartland President Debunks Global Warming Myths (The Heartland Institute)
Myths and Facts About the Environment (National Center for Public Policy Research)
Myths of Global Warming (National Center for Policy Analysis)
The Global Warming Myth? (John Stossel, ABC News)
Top 10 Climate Myth-Busters for 2007 (Steve Milloy, B.A. Natural Science, M.S. Health Science)
Top 10 Environmental Myths (PDF) (U.S. Chamber of Commerce)
Top 10 'Global-Warming' Myths (Human Events)

Papers:
A Climate of Belief (PDF) (Patrick Frank, Ph.D. Chemistry)
A Natural Limit to Anthropogenic Global Warming (PDF) (William Kininmonth, M.Sc. Retired Head of the Australian National Climate Centre)
Anthropogenic Global Warming: A Skeptical Point of View (PDF) (Anthony R. Lupo, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science)
Carbon Dioxide is not the primary cause of global warming (PDF) (Allan M.R. MacRae, B.Sc., M.Eng.)
Carbon cycle modelling and the residence time of natural and anthropogenic atmospheric CO2 (PDF) (Tom V. Segalstad, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental Geology)
Carbon Emissions Don’t Cause Global Warming (PDF) (David Evans, Ph.D. Carbon Accounting Modeller)
Climate Change: Driven by the Ocean not Human Activity (PDF) (William M. Gray, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Science)
Climate Change is Nothing New (PDF) (Lance Endersbee, Professor Emeritus of Engineering)
Climate Change Re-examined (PDF) (Joel M. Kauffman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Chemistry)
Climate Science: Climate Change and Its Impacts (PDF) (David R. Legates, Ph.D. Professor of Climatology)
Climate Science: Is it currently designed to answer questions? (PDF) (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)
CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time (PDF) (Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D. Ph.D. D.Sc. Natural Sciences)
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (PDF) (Arthur B. Robinson, Ph.D. Professor of Chemistry)
Global Warming: Experts’ Opinions versus Scientific Forecasts (PDF) (Kesten C. Green, Ph.D., J. Scott Armstrong, Ph.D. MIT)
Global Warming - Is Carbon Dioxide Getting a Bad Rep? (PDF) (Joseph D’Aleo, M.S. Meteorology, CCM, AMS Fellow)
Global Warming Is Not Happening (PDF) (Christopher Monckton, Mathematician and Former Science Advisor to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, UK)
Governments and Climate Change Issues: The case for rethinking (PDF) (David R. Henderson, Ph.D. Professor of Economics)
Is the Climate Really Changing Abnormally? (PDF) (Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental Economics)
Is the Earth still recovering from the "Little Ice Age"? (PDF) (Syun-Ichi Akasofu, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Geophysics)
Is the Sky Really Falling? A Review of Recent Global Warming Scare Stories (PDF) (Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology)
Is There a Basis for Global Warming Alarm? (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)
Limits to existing quantitative understanding of past, present and future changes to atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration (PDF) (Richard S. Courtney, Expert Peer Reviewer, IPCC)
Low climate sensitivity and other inconvenient truths (PDF) (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physics)
Politics and the Greenhouse Effect (Hans Jelbring, Ph.D Climatology)
Pseudoscientific elements in climate change research (PDF) (Arthur Rörsch, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Molecular Genetics)
Satellite and Climate Model Evidence Against Substantial Manmade Climate Change (Roy Spencer, Ph.D. Meteorology)
Taking Greenhouse Warming Seriously (PDF) (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT)
The Acquittal of Carbon Dioxide (Jeffrey A. Glassman, Ph.D. Applied Physicist and Engineer)
The Global Warming Scam (PDF) (Vincent R. Gray, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry)
The Increase in Global Temperature: What it Does and Does Not Tell Us (PDF) (Robert C. Balling Jr., Ph.D. Professor of Climatology)
The Lynching of Carbon Dioxide - The Innocent Source of Life (PDF) (Martin Hertzberg, Ph.D. Physical Chemistry)
The Myth of Dangerous Human Caused Climate Change (PDF) (Robert M. Carter, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental and Earth Science)
The IPCC's dubious evidence for a human influence on climate (PDF) (John McLean, Climate Data Analyst)
The Missing Hotspot (PDF) (David Evans, Ph.D. Carbon Accounting Modeller)
The Science Isn't Settled - The Limitations of Global Climate Models (PDF) (Tim F. Ball, Ph.D. Climatology)
There Is No Evidence (PDF) (David Evans, Ph.D. Carbon Accounting Modeller)

Reports:
Civil Society Report on Climate Change (PDF) (Civil Society Coalition on Climate Change)
Climate Change Reconsidered (PDF) (NIPCC)
Global Warming Censored (PDF) (Business & Media Institute)
Independent Summary for Policymakers: IPCC Fourth Assessment Report (PDF) (The Fraser Institute)
Critical Topics in Global Warming: Supplementary Analysis of the Independent Summary for Policymakers (PDF) (The Fraser Institute)
Is the U.S. Surface Temperature Record Reliable? (PDF) (Anthony Watts, AMS Certified Meteorologist)
Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate (PDF) (NIPCC)


z4.invisionfree.com...
z4.invisionfree.com...
z4.invisionfree.com...

So called "ENVIRONMENTALISTS", crack me up. So many ATS'ers are so called "anti-environmentalists", because your logic is stupid. People who don't believe what you do is not anti-environmental. There is no scientific consensus one way or the other regarding GW, therefore it is safe to say that opinions are divided about half each way on ATS, too.

Originally posted by contemplator
Because most ATSers are frothing at the mouth evangelical christians, and you know how it goes.. everything here was put here by God for them to consume and use.. why consider anything other than the Lord?

I am 100% Athiest, DUUUUUUUUUDE. Because everyone who believes in actual SCIENCE ( as outlined above ), is a foaming at the mouth christian.

"I agree the 11C figure was unreasonably hyped. It's a difficult line for all scientists to tread, as we need something 'exciting' to have any chance of publishing... to justify our funding," - Scientist to the BBC, 2006

website OBLITERATES AGW theory!!!

With the release of Al Gore's propaganda movie 'An Inconvenient Truth' and with the help of the media the public has been driven into a mass hysteria based not on science but lies. You will learn that there is no empirical evidence that man-made CO2 is the primary cause of the mild 0.6c increase in temperature over the last 100 years, Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is not pollution, pollution has nothing to do with global warming, Al Gore and his movie are a fraud, there is no "consensus" on the cause of global warming, the earth has been warmer in the past then it is today, the land based temperature stations are biased and their temperature records have been "adjusted", Antarctica is not melting, Arctic sea ice cannot effect sea level, sea levels are rising millimeters not feet, computer climate models are worthless, polar bears are not endangered or dying, droughts and hurricanes are not caused or made worse by global warming and there is extensive evidence of natural causes for global warming such as increased solar activity and orbital variations.

The current man-made global warming hysteria is largely driven by the environmentalist movement in an attempt to reshape western society away from capitalism by implementing state control (socialism) over private energy usage (Carbon Taxes, Cap and Trade). These environmentalists wish to get rid of the suburbs, SUVs, single family homes and return western society to a neo-urbanistic state of living. This is because the current environmentalist movement is filled with ex-communists and neo-socialists who have long ago abandoned science and replaced it with their politically motivated environmental "religion". Don't believe me? Go ask any "environmentalist" - socialism or capitalism? No, not all scientists even those who support man-made global warming theory seek these politically motivated intentions but their position has been distorted and exaggerated for political gain by extremists. I have created this page to help shed light on what you have not been told.

z4.invisionfree.com...

FURTHER READING...:


Oblierates AGW theory.
z4.invisionfree.com...


Why Al Gore has BLOOD on his hands...
larouchepac.com...

[edit on 7/7/2009 by C0bzz]

The only reason I initially replied to this post is the incredible gall of people who make assumptions and the giant jump to the conclusion that if we are not buying what they're selling suddenly we "don't care about the earth".

That's the "religion" talking. What moron "doesn't care about the earth"??

Twenty years ago the environmental movement focused on cleaning up our water, our air and bringing nature back to our world.

Now it's all about bad science and big money, whether it be a sleazy fly-by-night wind developer or a non-governmental organization seeking funding or a politician looking for easy votes. I've spent the last 3 1/2 years getting a huge eyeful on this. It is truly disgusting.

I put the blame on the gullible who just want something to "follow" rather than truly loving the earth. I avoid arguing with them because it's creepy how they are all like reading from a script given to them. Believing in AGW DOES NOT make you a true environmentalist.

reply to post by C0bzz


Unfortunately I don't have time to reply to all of the propaganda you posted, but here's some food for thought:

31,000 scientists and 9,000 PhDs? Umm, how did they prove this?

All you have to do to sign the thing is print it out, fill in your 'credentials' and send it back in.

So, yet again, another site that simply claims to be credible but is in no way credible.

And as far as the Earth cooling in the last 12 years, that's completely not true...well, actually, that's a blatant twist on logic to make it seem like the Earth is cooling.

The Earth's average (mean) temperature has steadily risen since the industrial revolution. No, it doesn't rise every year or remain consistent year-to-year, but over periods of time it does consistently rise.

There were periods in the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. where the mean temperature dropped quite a bit from the previous year, but that doesn't mean that the mean temperature wasn't rising steadily over the course of the decade.

global land-ocean temps
Global temps
More graphs

I'm also curious as to where you get your information that the Earth is cooling when meteorological data shows that from the period of 1997 to 2008 Earth experienced the 10 warmest mean years on record?

Could you find a reputable source that isn't www.ihatecapeandtrade.com?

Because, if the Earth had actually been cooling since 1997, then it would be impossible for the last 10 years to be the warmest recorded, wouldn't it? Hmmm.

Source

reply to post by Avenginggecko


OK so you believe the crap that Al Gore spews. Please answer me this, why in this chart
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fbba7d8377e2.jpg[/atsimg]

Did the temps rise in 900AD? Did we have some hidden industry going on then? This chart only shows the last 1109 years. What do you think the chances are that if we look at a chart of, lets say, 10,000 years there will be several times when the temp goes up, and then back down? Almost as if it were a normal CYCLE.

This is what makes me so pissed off at this whole Global Warming agenda. Our tax dollars are being wasted on trying to convince people that we are responsible for this and taxing the industry as punishment instead of using that money to fix some of the obvious flaws in the way we do business. (drinking water out of plastic bottles that will not degrade for 10,000 years.) (Burning gas in our cars and causing the smog you see in LA) (Suppressing any new technology that threatens big oil)

Please look into the real facts and science that goes beyond 30 years ago. the Earth is a bit older than that.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by network dude]

Everyone's talking and no one listens:

let's look at this:

the Houston shipping lane is a 52 mile connector between Houston and Galveston Bay. The chromium, nickel, and other metal pollutants were found in excess of EPA standards and are shown to be increasing. Also, farther along in San Jacinto River and the Houston Ship Channel (a mixed-water channel) rates are also rising, indicating that increasing amounts of dioxin, metal contamination, and dioxin and PCB concentration in fish, catfish, and crab have exceeded safe eating tolerances.

In other words, you can't eat the fish there because its poisonous.

let's look some more:

Nationwide, coal plants, cement kilns, commercial boilers and refineries contribute 112 tons of mercury emissions. In Colorado, where the rockies force clouds to watershed either into the Pacific or Gulf/Atlantic, reservoirs have to shut down fishing due to mercury contamination that is theorized to come when clouds that rain out to pass over the mountains shed mercury-laced water into the primary reservoirs of Colorado. Just to make the point clear - 1/10th of a lethal dose of mercury in adults causes neurological damage in children.

Lets not forget the plastic "island' in the middle of the Great North Pacific Gyre that is a stew of plastics twice the size of Texas. That plastic, as sunlight heats it, releases PCB, DDT, and PAH (polychlorinated biphenel, dichlorodipheneltrichloroethane, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) which are mistaken for estrogen and estradiol in animal endocrine systems, which can cause massive problems.

This is a quick compilation of three major problems in food chain, water quality, and sea life based primarily on human interaction and pollution of the environment. While we may argue the points of whether global warming or climate change is accurate, the days of being careless with our waste are over.

The idea that dominion means lay waste without repercussion is foolish, and greedy. to have dominion means that the dominant works in harmony with the submissive in order to create a pleasing outcome. It means that because you are in charge, you have to take care of the thing you are in charge of. Alphas lead and care for the pack, guiding it from shelter to feed and in defense.

Aren't we supposed to be smarter than animals?

Unfortunately I don't have time to reply to all of the propaganda you posted, but here's some food for thought:

Yep.

Because anything YOU disagree with is propaganda.

31,000 scientists and 9,000 PhDs? Umm, how did they prove this?

All you have to do to sign the thing is print it out, fill in your 'credentials' and send it back in.

5. Does the petition list contain names other than those of scientist signers?

Opponents of the petition project sometimes submit forged signatures in efforts to discredit the project. Usually, these efforts are eliminated by our verification procedures. On one occasion, a forged signature appeared briefly on the signatory list. It was removed as soon as discovered.

In a group of more than 30,000 people, there are many individuals with names similar or identical to other signatories, or to non-signatories – real or fictional. Opponents of the petition project sometimes use this statistical fact in efforts to discredit the project. For examples, Perry Mason and Michael Fox are scientists who have signed the petition – who happen also to have names identical to fictional or real non-scientists.

Of course, you can write that off, then there's these.

epw.senate.gov...

www.tcsdaily.com...

www.opinionjournal.com...

But I suppose that's just Propaganda.

And as far as the Earth cooling in the last 12 years, that's completely not true...well, actually, that's a blatant twist on logic to make it seem like the Earth is cooling.

NASA GISS, RSS MSU, UAH AMSU, HADLEY all show the Earth cooling since 2002. Mind you, these are cooling from 2002 levels. You can push it to 12 years because 1998 was VERY hot, so is averages out to cooling.

The Earth's average (mean) temperature has steadily risen since the industrial revolution. No, it doesn't rise every year or remain consistent year-to-year, but over periods of time it does consistently rise.

The majority of the warming was before 1945, however when the post war industrial boom began temperatures began decreasing which began global cooling hysteria. It was only untill the 1970's temperature began rising again. And yes, it has risen since the industrial revolution, but you know why? That's because you're cherry picking a point in history where temperatures were cool. If I picked Egyptian Warm Period, Minoan Warm Period, roman Warm Period, Mediaeval War Period as a starting point, then I could show that the temperatures are normal. Infact, these warming periods come in cycles, every thousand years or so. 1000 years ago was the Mediaval period, therefore it makes complete sence to be where we are now.



It would be completely illogical to think temperatures would not rise from the industrial revolution, it had been rising then and before then, in CYCLES.

Could you find a reputable source that isn't www.ihatecapeandtrade.com?

NASA GISS, RSS MSU, UAH AMSU, HADLEY show the Earth cooling since 2002.



Papers:

www-eaps.mit.edu...

www.bobbrinsmead.com...

www.bobbrinsmead.com...

www.youtube.com...

Peer reviewed papers:

www.springerlink.com...

www.springerlink.com...

I fail to see how these sources are not credible.

If it were real, why is that that climate models where Anthropogenic CO2 influences climate dramatically always fall flat on its own face?

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 7/7/2009 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz


stop flooding this thread with facts. They are getting in the way of the story. It's just getting to the good part. Al Gore is going to tell us how long we are going to survive before the carbon monster eats us all.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by C0bzz

 

stop flooding this thread with facts. They are getting in the way of the story. It's just getting to the good part. Al Gore is going to tell us how long we are going to survive before the carbon monster eats us all.

Al Gore is a pot addict douche.

www.aim.org...

www.guardian.co.uk...

archive.newsmax.com.../9/26/224652

archive.newsmax.com.../9/20/144617

archive.newsmax.com.../9/7/223905

www.youtube.com...

www.tennesseepolicy.org...

www.globalwarmingheartland.org...

www.heartland.org...

newsbusters.org...

scienceandpublicpolicy.org...

nl.newsbank.com... _direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date&s_trackval=GooglePM


Just some more, "fun facts".

The thing i dont understand, if global warming/climate change/carbon tax is cooked up by the NWO... how come 8 years of the Bush admin tried to fight Kyoto and such things? for the better of American industry?
Another thing i cant understand is why people ignore the greenhouse effect, its like you ignore Pythagorean theorem..

[edit on 7-7-2009 by Foppezao]

Another thing i cant understand is why people ignore the greenhouse effect, its like you ignore Pythagorean theorem..

Carbon Dioxide introduced by man is 0.117% OF ALL GREENHOUSE GASES. Additionally, global warming alarmism is WRONG because it does not take into account water vapour, the most prominent greenhouse gas. So yes, man DOES have an effect, however it's likely to be a TINY one and additionally there are many other factors to the environment, water vapour, the sun, and clouds, for example. Additionally, it has been shown that historical Carbon Dioxide levels actually lag slightly behind temperature, not the other way around.

When studies try to base temperature from rising carbon dioxide levels then fall on their face. Pretty much always.

researchnews.osu.edu...

www.ucar.edu...

www.eurekalert.org...

www.sciencedaily.com...

www.heartland.org...

Global Warming Models Labeled 'Fairy Tale' By Team of Scientists
www.cnsnews.com...





More DIRT on Al GORE.

Nobel Committee Bypassed Holocaust Savior for Al Gore

For instance, meet Irena Sendler, a 97-year-old Polish woman who saved 2,500 Jewish children from certain death in the Warsaw ghetto during World War II.

Hadn't heard of her? Well, don't feel bad, for since the Nobel Committee announced the nominees in February, there have only been 107 reports about Mrs. Sendler being one of them. By contrast, Al Gore and "Nobel" have been mentioned in 2,912.

newsbusters.org...

Thanks Al Gore for helping thousands (millions?) of South Africans die of HIV / AIDS by not allowing South Africa to produce there own drugs! FYI, I am so sour at Al Gore because my school has been shown An Inconvenient Truth many times and that was only in my classes. Now a few hundred people are mini versions of Al Gore.

[edit on 7/7/2009 by C0bzz]

Originally posted by C0bzz

Another thing i cant understand is why people ignore the greenhouse effect, its like you ignore Pythagorean theorem..

Carbon Dioxide introduced by man is 0.00105% OF ALL GREENHOUSE GASES, or 0.0000105% of the atmosphere. Additionally, global warming alarmism is WRONG because it does not take into account water vapour, the most prominent greenhouse gas. So yes, man DOES have an effect, however it's likely to be a TINY one and additionally there are many other factors to the environment, water vapour, the sun, and clouds, for example. Additionally, it has been shown that historical Carbon Dioxide levels actually lag slightly behind temperature, not the other way around.

But what figures are those, is that also factory farming, pigs, manure etc?
And how about the Methane in the permafrost?Isnt that greenhouse effect when the methane is released into the air? That is melting [ and so the pole caps], so how come people here are saying it is only getting colder?

[edit on 7-7-2009 by Foppezao]

But what figures are those, is that also factory farming, pigs, manure etc?

Yes.

Human activites contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.

www.geocraft.com...

BTW, I revised the figures in previous post.

And how about the Methane in the permafrost?Isnt that greenhouse effect when the methane is released into the air?

Yep.

That is melting [ and so the pole caps],

Cannot comment on the Arctic or Permafrost. But I do know that Greenland has stabalised, Western Antarctica continues to melt which is however, MORE than offset by Eastern Antarctica which is thicker than it's been in quite some time.

Antarctica.
www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

Sea ice.
www.dailytech.com...

Greenland:
wattsupwiththat.com...

Permafrost:
www.bloomberg.com...

so how come people here are saying it is only getting colder?

NASA GISS, RSS MSU, UAH AMSU, HADLEY show the Earth cooling since 2002.


www.bobbrinsmead.com...

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on? “- Geologist Dr. David Gee, the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress, who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

[edit on 7/7/2009 by C0bzz]

wow, so your brainwashed??? yep... gotta save the planet.... gotta raise the taxes.

Algore is a joke. He gets a award for what??? umm guys manbearpig is real.. serial.

This is what Algore does:

That's what algore does...lol :

Here is what Nasa says:


Then their is a tone of vidoes online of history channel and discovery channel showing scientist in the north pole collecting ice pillar samples from ice burgs that show past history temps. They found that global warming is a natural cycle.

Here is FAT TAX: www.foxnews.com...


That is one example... About 4 months ago. I saw Algor on c-span. He was ranting about carbon tax and global warming. He even talked about putting a Fat tax on people. He claims that when fat people fart and also burp and breath they are outputting too much carbon dioxide into the air meaning green house gases. He said America has a overweight problem. When I heard this I lol and then just changed the channel.

I then saw a story on it on fox news. Now I tried searching on the internet and I can't find this story. I don't know if that was just algors opinion but I found that some cities and states are trying to get a Fat Tax in place to try and force people to slim down.

At the end of this story . Global warming is a natural effect. It's a solar cycle we go threw.

Not us creating the problem. It's on a solar scale. It's effected by a galactic orbit.

We are not as big as our solar system so we can't do big changes on climate.

Green mongering has been proven to be the same warmongering and all of the solutions have been enslavement techniques and not fixes. Hell they haven't even came up real facts to back claims. So yes I take care of my environment for my children but I Reject anything that makes me pay(taxed) for the "same old routine" of polluting and passing the costs onto people. Boycott those that are extremely bad and reuse products. Just don't believe the "green" hype of communism that is spreading like fire. "Remember its all for the children so hand them over now to?"

reply to post by grapesofraft


I don't like being lied to, especially by people who insult me while telling me lies.

Modern Environmentalism is about controlling people not helping the environment. So, why should I support it?

There are some environmentalists who aren't interested in controlling people, but they are usually interested in worshiping nature. I believe in worshiping nature's God.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by CharlesMartel]

I'm an environmentalist (enviro/animal law). I think it's insane & wrong to poison the planet & all the living beings here. People seem to think that they can pollute all they want & that it will never affect them. Well, maybe some of the health problems are a result of environmental degradation. For ex, maybe people should start looking into obesogens if they have weight problems: endo.endojournals.org...

reply to post by silent thunder


I don't believe in the Global Warming is really Cooling Hoax, but I'm far from anti-environmentalist.

If you mention a geothermal plant anywhere near one of the rare geyser fields of this world I get livid. Those plants without question destroy geyser fields, a rare natural treasure. Steamboat Springs and Beowawe which WERE some of the larger geyser fields in the world are completely destroyed.

Now El Taito, currently the 2nd or 3rd largest geyser field in the world might be destroyed by that same geothermal power so called environmentalists push.

This is why I hope that China 'gets it' just as Russia did with Dolina Geizerov, and protects a field rumored to rival Yellowstone located there, and those confirmed fields in Tibet from geothermal exploitation.

The destruction of said environment is not global warming, but mans actions against the environment. Go to the decaying and dry sinter shields in Nevada at Steamboat Springs and Beowawe with geothermal plants sitting next to them and see that destruction first hand and tell me they are environmentally friendly.

You know, those same environmentally friendly geothermal plants that so called environmentalists push.

Not convinced? Shall I list some more?

How about Reykir, Iceland Geysers? Destroyed by Geothermal power
How about The Spa Near Taupo, New Zealand? Destroyed by geothermal power and Waikato River alterations by man.
How about Wairakei, New Zealand which had ~ 100 geysers? Destroyed by geothermal power.

How about Salton Sea, California? Destroyed by formation of Salton Sea. Even if drained, destroyed by geothermal power in the area.

How about Orakei Korako, New Zealand? Partially destroyed by man made reservoir for hydropower. One of the Geysers, Minginui Geyser, could erupt to the same height as Steamboat Geyser. At least there's hope here, as they might drain it to restore the field.

Wonder why there's not more? Thats how damn rare they and isolated they are. Most large fields have been destroyed by that so called environmentally friendly power source.

Focus on the real problem such as the blatant destruction of rare natural resources and you'll have my attention.

Creating one of the largest scams in the history of the world to profit off it, and you will draw my ire. It's that simple.

Thanks for your replies, everyone...even those I'm not in agreement with.

I'd also like to add that the "global warming" debate takes up far too much of people's attention when considering the environment...even if you are a staunch denier, or think its totally non-human-caused and there is nothing to do about it, there are tons of other problems on the planet...desertificatrion, threats to crops, the general runation of the countryside by overbuilding, the death of the honeybees, loss of species diversity, and so on.

Basically, it seems to me that our planet is dying, at least in terms of being a place humans can live in comfort. I have no doubt life on planet earth will continue for millions if not billions of years...but we may not be among the survivors. There is something very ancient in us that responds to cool breezes rustling the tree leaves, the soughing of pines, windswept fields, and burbling brooks...its called "instinct" and it seems to me that people who should know better devalue it and refuse to cultivate nature in a way that allows for a healthy human psychology and physiology. Instead we surround ourselves in concrete and plastic, bathe ourselves in neon and halogen, and then wonder why so many of us have to take various antidepressants, seditatves, or worse just to make it through any given day in this unnatural hell we've created for ourselves.

reply to post by silent thunder

Why are so many ATSers antienvironmentalist? Allow me to hazard a guess.

ATS is a conspiracy theory web site, so it attracts a great many conspiracy theorists (not exclusively, though, by any means: most members are actually quite sane).

Conspiracy theorists tend to be paranoid or schizoid. Not paranoiacs or schizophrenics, but people who have such tendencies without being so severely afflicted that they cannot function (though we have a few of those, too).

Paranoid and schizoid people tend to self-centred, suspicious of others and hostile towards them. Accordingly, they tend to be political reactionaries, well to the right of what most people, even thoughtful conservatives, would deem ethical or sane.

Given these qualities, it is hardly surprising that so many are antienvironmentalists.

I'm not an Anti Environmentalist, I'm an anti-Global Warming and anti- carbon emmission tax.
When it comes down to farmers having to pay tax on their cows farting, you know it's gone into cuckoo land.
It's just a new money grab scheme that isn't going to help the Environment at all. I think most see the scam for what it is.