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Saudis Give Nod to Isreal to Use Airspace In Iran Attack

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posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Actually, they can just barely make it without touching Jordan, by doing it from their southernmost base.

From this map you can see the very southern tip, where they can fly into the Gulf of Aqaba briefly, hang a left, and bang- they're gone over Saudi territory...

map link

This is actually pretty big news, imo. Also note that interestingly, that very route I describe would put them in a direct beeline for the nuclear reactor at Bushehr!


See the bigger map

Also, interesting to note how the US conveniently escapes any direct "involvement" using this method of going through Saudi, as opposed to any flyover of Iraqi territory. Israel has probably been working on the Saudis for quite a while on this, covertly. Betcha! And Lord only knows what kind of special deals are getting cut behind the scenes here with this. Like for instance, could Israel be pawning off a few nukes to Saudi in exchange for that blind eye? Hmm...

Cause maybe the only way the Saudis would consider it is if they had control over a few nukes just in case Iran retaliates against them for the strikes.

But as deceptive as Israel is, I wouldn't put them past them to still attack by sub instead, creating a public diversion with news of the Saudi sanction to use their airspace- and trying to catch Iran off guard. Then again, they might use both methods at once.

Either way though, this is going to ignite a major cluster****, imo. After all, Israel has got some old favors to pay off... 9/11. So the US just gets to sit back and wait for Iran to retaliate, which it probably will, against the Persian Gulf Fleet- and once that attack comes, the US moves in "justified" defense against Iran, further wiping out all other nuclear facilities that Israel can't get to because of distance and refueling issues. Mission accomplished- again- says BushBama.




posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 





Your behind the scenes real history is always fascinating and has some points worth serious examination. I wish half of it were true.

But it's just so loaded with old wives tales misinformation, wonky speculations, grafted onto bits and pieces of documented history - one doesn't know where to start dissecting.


Hi Mike my friend, I hope life is treating you well. I am a veritable font of often useless knowledge picked up from an assortment of sources ranging from cab drivers, mentors, wise old men hanging out in caves on the side of mountain tops, to history books and encyclopedias, documentaries, first hand experience, the first hand experience of others, and of course most importantly what the Chinese write down inside of Fortune Cookies.

Honestly some of it there is no way to dissect, the old wife’s tails are easy, both literally and figuratively, I just go ahead and jump right in the pool after enjoying a big full meal, or slap a slab of butter on a burn and say hey mom I didn’t sink, and wow this burn feels even worse now!

I am working on creating a time machine to go back in time and debunk and confirm everything else but alas like Barack Obama all I can contribute myself is an empty shell for the Machine and I am waiting for experts to fill in and construct the rest and make it work. Odds on whether I get my time machine working before Barack fixes the economy?




OK, just a couple highlights. There never were 12 Tribes, lost or stolen. A division of Judea and Samaria, but the other 10 are Sunday School biblical mythology. Hebrew history, we now know, is a blend of Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian history mixing real people and events with a pile of cultural fairly tales. Read some real Biblical history sometime - like Thomas L. Thompson. He and the Scandinavian school show a very different historical record based on comparisons of other written documents and accounts, the geological and anthropological record, newly translated writings, etc.


Some say there were thirteen tribes! Thirteen pops up a lot so if there were tribes there must have been thirteen. Watch the inner workings of an evil genius mind at work and see how the gears reach positive conclusions! Fascinating isn’t it? I am pretty sure the Habiru and Hapiri (Hebrews) were spread out from modern day Armenia and Turkey, through out the Mediterranean along the Southern coast of Spain and the Northern Coast of Africa and Egypt, throughout the Middle East throughout the Mesopotamian Delta and across the Gulf into Persia. I base this on their modern day descendants love of travel, and their enterprising ways, so I feel it’s safe to say whether there was one tribe, 3 tribes, 6 tribes a dollar, that they were pretty much everywhere you could make a dollar!
What you will notice in a lot of my posts is words like ‘purportedly’ and ‘supposedly’ and ‘rumored’ and ‘claimed’ and ‘theorized’.

This is my way of passing along the vast array of information my mind records and catalogs that I have no credible way to dissect since my time machine is not working yet, and no one ever thinks to give me one for my Birthday or Christmas…as being of ‘dubious’ source…it could be true, it could not be true.

Yet where ever there does exist a ‘lie’ of dubious source, it came into being as a ‘lie’ because someone, somewhere really wanted to ‘hide’ the truth, and also create an ‘illusion’.

As learned men we both know things are seldom what they appear to be on the surface and much of the world revolves on ‘illusion’.

I always use those prefacing words when stating information I myself don’t feel is entirely credible or accurate and somewhat illusionary in it’s nature and if you look back at my post, in fact most of my posts on every topic and thread I post on, you will see a lot of those ‘prefacing’ words meant to be disclaimers, as I expound by theorizing on what might be the underlying truth, or to fill in the gaps of an ‘illusion’ someone else did a poor job of creating.

I honestly truly don’t know a credible way to dissect some things Mike because there typically are so many competing sources of information that the only way to authenticate them would to be there at the time, and for everyone that wants to believe something there is a version made to seem as credible as possible, and for everyone who wants to disbelieve something there is a version made to seem as credible as possible.

I just throw it out there along with the disclaimers and my own theories and let smarter people like your self decide for yourself!

I certainly can liven up an otherwise dead party where no one else is talking and ran out of things to say though!




The Al Saud family really can't be traced back more than the 15th Century. Like so many they have invented a noble & righteous prehistory for themselves. It would be interesting if they were interesting. But just a gang of barbaric Bedouins lucking out in the 1930s finding the sand beneath their feet was awash in oil, not much lineage. Had they played their cards right, they'd be the richest people on the planet.


There is this little kind of obstructive hazy kind of fuzzy thing that happens before the 15th Century it’s called the DARK AGES, in fact not a whole lot of information has come out of the dark ages except that they were dark, except that they weren’t real fun times to be alive, and that it was dark, and they weren’t real fun times to be alive.

My own personal ‘Theory’ is the dark ages were primarily used to stamp out pagan religions, first nations peoples, indoctrinate the world into the trinity of Abraham’s religions and obscure all other versions of history as best as could be done so that when they lifted the veil of darkness everyone would be more or less seeing the same ‘illusion’.

No telling who any of these major players were during and before the Dark Ages, unless you have a Time Machine…mine is still not working darn it, oh what I wouldn’t give for a fun afternoon at the Coliseum, and a stroll through the Library at Alexandria.




The Vatican is another matter. Did you know there were two Jewish Popes. And that doesn't include the one who died a few years ago whose Polish mother's birth certificate says 'Juden'


I am still pretty sure the Vatican is smoke for the actual Romans and the Empire, I still think the Seborgans drive that monstrosity and everything it drives and the Priestly Class worships the sun through stained glassed windows buzzed out of their minds on psychedelic mushrooms that resemble their robes whiffing incense and drinking cheap wine. People seem to love to sit their and sing and kneel and watch though, so as long as they aren’t hurting anyone…




This is not an attempt to put down your efforts so much as a plea to get more of your facts straight. The ultimate conspiracy story of the ages would be great, backed up by some solid historical facts.


In part that is why I am on ATS is to get as many facts straight as possible, where it is possible. I can tell you this though friend Mike even if I had every fact, even if I knew precisely the grand conspiracy in all it’s details, even if I laid them all out, without a typo, bad grammar or my debauched sense of humor…no one would believe it exactly as I put it out, and no one would believe every source as being factual…

Which is why it’s kind of like the old IBM Instant Replay Moment on the televised National Football League games where “You make the call”!



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In part that is why I am on ATS is to get as many facts straight as possible, where it is possible. I can tell you this though friend Mike even if I had every fact, even if I knew precisely the grand conspiracy in all it’s details, even if I laid them all out, without a typo, bad grammar or my debauched sense of humor…no one would believe it exactly as I put it out, and no one would believe every source as being factual…


My ol' pal PT,

Well you have the gift of the gab. The Blarney.

You must have read Thomas Cahill's seminal works "The Gift of the Jews" and "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

Broad brush stroke history is fascinating.

Line up a few credibly sourced pieces of the historical puzzle and just fire away. Nobody ever gets it all right. Never let uncertainty and unreliability of information get in the way of a good story. Headlong narrative, charm and wit, are what makes for compelling narrative.

You've got all the vital components. Good knowledge of the past, great self-deprecating voice, deceptively casual conversational style, a million illuminating anecdotes.

Shame to dribble it just away on a stream of ephemeral messages.

All said in the spirit of encouragement you understand.

Look forward to your Outline of History, Pt I.


Mike



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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There's never been any love lost between the Persians and the Arabs.

The Persians seem to think that Arabs are ignorant, dirty people of crude origin. I recall someone saying that the Qur'an itself was in essence, a Persian creation.

The Arabs traditionally seem to think the Persians overbearing, aloof, and full of themselves.

Culturally, they have vast differences.

Religiously, SOME differences.

I think the Saudi's, the Jordanians, and a few other Arab nations wouldn't mind the Persians being taken down a notch.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Being Jewish myself I'd like to believe what you say... I'd feel allot safer...

Sadly, it's not

would be nice though... if some of my relatives actually ruled the world, i'd be allot nicer to them that's for sure...



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by dooper
There's never been any love lost between the Persians and the Arabs.

The Persians seem to think that Arabs are ignorant, dirty people of crude origin. I recall someone saying that the Qur'an itself was in essence, a Persian creation.

The Arabs traditionally seem to think the Persians overbearing, aloof, and full of themselves.

Culturally, they have vast differences.

Religiously, SOME differences.

I think the Saudi's, the Jordanians, and a few other Arab nations wouldn't mind the Persians being taken down a notch.



My friends in Lebanon paint a different picture. The Middle East Sunnis have benefited more with the oil booms and the Shiites are considered an underclass in most countries. But the tide is turning - and fast.

The 30 year Mullah regime has managed to beat a lot of Persian tradition out of the citizens. They still feel smarter and more sophisticated than Sunnis they consider one step away from Bedouins. And to a large extent they are.

But Iran is losing a connection to the rest of the world and it's own past just as Russians lost out with decades of stifling Communism.


Mike



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Given the time of the Israelites existence and being a displaced people repeatedly in fact, when you factor in the number of people alive today, it is easy to conclude... factually that Israelites ended up all over the world... influenced many cultures...

I'd say you can trace them to the new world as well

But as today's Jews most actually breed into the local population and.... there is not now nor has there ever been any kind of "intent" in regards to this...



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Being Jewish myself I'd like to believe what you say... I'd feel allot safer...

Sadly, it's not

would be nice though... if some of my relatives actually ruled the world, i'd be allot nicer to them that's for sure...



From another club member.

Considering the claims of world control and unimaginable wealth, the Jews aren't doing such a great job.

One crummy strip of desert land in the armpit of the Middle East. Not a drop of oil under it. Having to fight just to hold on to that. Not even doing so well on this front.

I too wish we vastly overrated Jews were as all-powerful and Machiavellianly clever as we're cracked up to be.


Mike



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


As I have said many times Mike but let me say it again, I do not think either the average Jew, Christian or Muslim understands the divide and conquer nature of the Roman conspiracy that led to the Cult of Abraham being fractured three ways, or that as part of their faith they have been duped into an 'army' or a 'gang' for lack of a better word, with an overall specific objective tied to their branch of the faith, that is vital to the overall conspiracy, but instead appears as simply a natural part of their faith.

If you told conquistadors and colonists that they were actually Rome's Army not acting on behalf of an independent Spain or England, France or Germany they of course would deny it, because it wasn't put to them that way. It had that net effect, but it was presented to them in the guise of other things based on their religious faith and cultural identities.

There are a few select people at the top of a conspiracy, and usually just one, no more than two, that know every detail.

When you are running a conspiracy the more profitable and effective it becomes based on how many pieces you have to it, with the lion's share and the most benefit and safety going to the one or two people who have every part of the plan.

Often the other players on the higher ranks who are in possession of significant ellements but not all the ellements end up getting double crossed and tricked as it all goes down, cut out, and left out, and usually hung out as something called 'cut outs'.

It is pure nonsense to think that the Jews are all conspiring in a grand conspiracy they all understand and know about and are participating in fully and willingly.

In fact hardly any of them know the details. They like every other branch of the religion and ethnic group can be manipualted into doing what the conspirators want them too simply through the religion and through appeals to pride and vanity and emotional manipulation.

You guys have to stop feeling bad about the fact you got duped into this and stop feeling like each and every one of you is personally responsible.

The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims are all being set up. Can't you actually each see how each villanizes the other...pretty suspicious if you ask me...

How the heck can any of the three be right, when each believes the other is wrong?

It is definately an argument that should be settled out in the sand box, so I guess they picked the Middle East...your right, it's a dry, armpit kind of place...how the heck did you get tricked into that? It's almost as bad as the Indians tricking 10,000,000 people to live in a stinking Island in the Hudson because they thought they got a deal for it because they only paid trinkets.

Yep if you can make it there you can make it anywhere, give us your Tired your Hungry your Poor, talk about trying to maximize a profit!

I just think the whole game should be called off, everyone should hug and shake hands, and promise to do it again sometime, but like not sometime soon OK?



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 03:34 AM
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Very compelling PT. I can’t say it’s wrong. I just don't get a feeling there is a Wizard behind the curtain here in the Great Land of Oz.

I feel more like I’m in Blunderland than Wonderland.

You suggest we’re in a Philip K. Dick novel where consensus reality is manufactured.

I have a radical counter interpretation of world events that I find easier to validate.

I think most world leaders, even in our advanced age of technology and information, are essentially inept. They barely manage to do their jobs adequately, are incapable of long term strategies and planning, and basically stumble from one crisis to the next. It's more like fixing holes in a leaking boat that sailing with the wind.

The occasional flashes of brilliance and revelatory vision really do stand out, because they are so rare. And even these are often just dumb luck with so many trails and errors.

The global meltdown is just the latest manifestation. No master plan. Too many hands in the cookie jar, everyone grabbing as much as they can. People worth $5 Billion feel the need to become worth $10 Billion.

I never got the need for a New World Order. Not even sure what the Old World Order was, or why anyone wasn't happy with it. Draining the world of it's resources by paying off local warlords and lunatic despots worked fine for thousands of years. It's how the West rose and the rest were kept in their place.

The 60 year experiment of giving enough back to the workers so they could become modest consumers and even own their homes is coming to a finish.
They tried it. Some good things, some not so good. The plebs weren’t smart enough to lay off the candy. Over consumption went beyond luxury seeking, it became an addiction.

So a great leveling is happening. Everyone has to look at each other and say “What were we thinking.”

As you sagely point out, if everyone holding thousand year grudges just kissed and made up, there would go the need for militaries, weapons, security, intelligence networks, etc. But suspicious tribalism still rules. Your enemy is not the faceless multinational conglomerate board member. It’s your landlord, your local politician, the business owners living in those expensive homes up the road. They played the game better than you did. Time to bring them down a notch. Punishment is a great form of catharsis.

Problem for most of us, the conniving unscrupulous entrepreneurs, and businessmen are the ones who have kept us moving up the food chain all these years. The bankers may be corrupt, but no banking, no venture capital, no loans – then no investing in the future with money accumulated today. Call them a necessary evil.

Even the cultural, religious, racial antagonism and fierce competition is a vital component that motivates people and makes them run faster on the treadmill. Waiting to get to Lotus Land one day.

It's a hopelessly inefficient machine. But it's the only one we've come up with so far. And it does work, like a beater car. Not a smooth ride, but it gets you from Point A to Point B with only the occasional breakdown.

Looking for explanations why things are so bad. Like our ancestors looking at the skies at night and imagining Gods controlling the Moon, the tides, the wind, the stars, we envision invisible forces of wealth and power. We’re Creationists by nature. Evolution seems suspicious. There must be a Master Planner somewhere.

Maybe there is.


Mike


[edit on 6-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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sighhhh

good read.
sad.

doesnt leave much wiggle room for the future ?



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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Well this just isn't cheery news for the morning.Israel must have made quite the offer..either that or Saudi's hatred for Iran was enough to make a pact with Israel who they dont like either.In any case...it does set a dangerous precedent and shows the chance is growing for a war between the two countries in the near future,moreso than other Israel/Iran news reports.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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Israel and Saudi Arabia share intelligence a lot. Don't buy into the media rhetoric so much.

This is from Arab personal sources btw.

In fact the current King, Abdullah, is about the most liberal one they've ever had. Hates Mr A with a passion. Knows Iran's long term goal is to have the al Saud family overthrown.

Muslim world politics are complicated. Right now Israel is sort of their White Knight. Note no one did anything when they went into Gaza.

Everyone in the ME is starting to get tired of the Palestinians, particularly the Saudis. Iran uses them as a tool for sympathy gaining.

The big game has moved to the Caucuses. It's about pipeline placements now.


M


[edit on 7-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend... well, at least for the purposes of lighting a nuclear fire over Iran. The Saudis hate the Persians and always will.

I feel sad for the millions of youth in Iran under the boot of the Mullah elite. They just want to be free, yet their rulers are going to cause their deaths just because they want a bomb so badly to carry out the Mhadi's wishes of death and destruction.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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From all available information, and knowing how the Saudis like to leak information strategically, the plan is to underline to Iran and anyone considering supporting them, like Russia, that everyone is onside and fully prepared.

Iran has to look closer at what cards they are really holding. Hezbollah and Hamas are on the payroll, but how far does that go? US forces are in their neighbourhood. They've been provoking Israel in Gaza, Lebanon, and rhetorically. They've made noises about the US and Britain fomenting dissent. Real or imagined, their non-compliant nuclear program is interpreted as a threat to peace in the region.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, is waiting to see what they'll do next.


Mike


[edit on 7-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
From all available information, and knowing how the Saudis like to leak information strategically, the plan is to underline to Iran and anyone considering supporting them, like Russia, that everyone is onside and fully prepared.

Iran has to look closer at what cards they are really holding. Hezbollah and Hamas are on the payroll, but how far does that go? US forces are in their neighbourhood. They've been provoking Israel in Gaza, Lebanon, and rhetorically. They've made noises about the US and Britain fomenting dissent. Real or imagined, their non-compliant nuclear program is interpreted as a threat to peace in the region.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, is waiting to see what they'll do next.


Mike


[edit on 7-7-2009 by mmiichael]


You better pray a million prayers that Israel does not attack Iran. I dont like a lot of things Israel does but I'd hate to see them get destroyed!



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by ElloAll
You better pray a million prayers that Israel does not attack Iran. I dont like a lot of things Israel does but I'd hate to see them get destroyed!



I don't pray. Found it doesn't produce reliable results.

Israel doesn't want to attack Iran. They've had amicable cooperative relations in the past.

As you seem inclined, put in a million prayers Iran doesn't provoke Israel, the US, Britain, Iraq - to an extent that they find cause to take military action.

I wouldn't want to see any unnecessary suffering and death for anyone.

When the current Iranian regime figures out how to behave diplomatically and responsibly in the 21st Century, without their sabre rattling as well as supplying training, funding, and support for groups trying to kill Israelis, the threat will be gone.

Let's all pray they figure that out.


Mike






[edit on 7-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by ElloAll
You better pray a million prayers that Israel does not attack Iran. I dont like a lot of things Israel does but I'd hate to see them get destroyed!


It's really hard to keep up with your back and forth.

Here's what you send elsewhere about those living in Israel -

Originally posted by ElloAll
the Khazars were always a blood-thirsty people expelled wherever they go -- like aliens without human emotions,


Thread here

Either they are humans worthy of saving their lives, or they are sub human aliens without human emotions ... which makes them a whole lot easier to kill off.



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