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How I Lost My Daughter to Paradise - Jehovah's Witnesses

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posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


It seems you don't understand the JW. I have never met a group of more self-righteous hypocrites. How do you counter you are a servant of Satan? No she had the cards stacked against her. Ya bad move giving the mother custody. I grew up with quite a few JW's and they all broke away from the cult at the age of consent. And the parents wondered why. Too many people want to belong to something bigger than themselves and the watchtower {sounds ominous} gives them that feeling even though by their doctrine heavens got a short list and everyone else is going to hell! Meanwhile they label everyone else as sinners or servants of the devil to cover their own transgressions. I watched how kind and understanding they are first hand, I was told by a few I was close to the truth and I told them Jesus was a alien hybrid and gave them my theory.....
They don't bug me too much anymore!!!




posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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Here's what Johos believe about the Afterlife:

Witnesses regard the soul as mortal, based on the statement at Ezekiel 18:4 that "the soul that sins, it shall die" (MKJV)[137] and thus believe the soul does not continue to live after one dies.[138] Death is considered a state of non-existence, based on their understanding of Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing." Witnesses believe that the only hope for life after death is in the resurrection, (as opposed to an immortal soul) which they say involves re-creation by God of the same individual with a new body.[139] They believe that 144,000 people will be resurrected to a heavenly life to be priestly rulers under Christ, but the vast majority, to life on a paradise earth. Resurrected individuals will undergo a final test to determine their eligibility for everlasting life on earth.[140]

Watch Tower publications teach that Hell (hades or sheol) is not a place of fiery torment, but rather the 'common grave', a place of unconsciousness.[141] "Gehenna", the Bible word commonly translated "hellfire", is said to describe a judgment of complete destruction[142], and that no resurrection is possible for anyone in Gehenna.[143] They reason that complete destruction does not allow for literal "torture" of the wicked, as the deceased person lacks consciousness.[144] Based on this, they believe that parables such as that of "the rich man and Lazarus" should not be interpreted literally, and that such references are speaking of symbolic death, not the physical death of actual individuals.[145]

Witnesses teach that sometimes wicked angels (demons) pretend to be spirits of the dead, and that their deception is the basis for many beliefs about the activities of "dead" people.[146][147]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by dannikilla13
 


Just advertise on TV or on radio, or in magazines, etc, Don't freakin' intrude upone me with your "truth". Cuz, it ain't the truth as I know it. Meanwhile, if you send women to talk to me about God, univited on my doorstep, just expect me to be rude and leer at your women. I give you the same respect I give to a door to door salesman. None. Just leave me the hell alone and don't wake me up or bother me. How about I pester you while you are worshipping your god? Go away! God will come to me in his own sweet time.

I remember well accompanying my dad while he was in his missionary phase. He would knock on people's doors and say, "have you heard the word of God?"

Hell, yeah, we have heard it. Now give us some hope to believe in.

I have been "saved" so many times as a child,yet WTF? How many times must I be born again? I thought it was once. Yet, after being born again I stole a candy bar and I had to be reborn again? WTF?Just go away unless you are going to lay that big thigh across my belly.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by DraconianKing
Shame on you for allowing your daughter to be stolen from you. If your kid believed you were the devil then you should have moved far away from your ignorant family. You should have told her that there is no such thing as god, demons, angels and all that other mystical fairy tale nonsense.

Your first mistake was leaving your kid with your mother when you knew the wench was a religious nutbag and would be indoctrinating and abusing your child. You should have found someone else to take care of her. If my kids ever fell for such ridiculous nonsense I'd knock hem upside their head.


I think you really should be more sympathetic. The fact you would beat your own kid if they became a JoHo shows you don't have a moral upper hand on the OP.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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I'm a hard hearted bastard at the best of times - this is the only thing I'll say on this thread, I only hope and wish you have everyones support on here and I think you will.

My best of wishes to you and your family, I hope, somehow, things can work out for you and your family for the best. I agree with you and support your actions and feelings. If I had any faith it would be with you, but I just want to say, keep trying, keep working ~ you're one of the greatest examples you could be.

Good luck.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Yet another thread bashing the Jehovah's Witnesses. There aren't enough of these already? So much hatred based in ignorance of why the Jehovah's Witnesses believe the way they do.

Get in their face? That's like saying "look how ignorant and intollerant I am". It gets really tiresome reading these things over and over again.

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness but I know that they are not as bad as people make them out to be.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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That's a very sad story.. I felt rage and sadness at the same time....The more I see the more I hate religion.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


While I want to lash out at you for a few reasons, I do not have the room to speak, because ultimately, your mother back stabbed you.

A person who many new parents use for guidance and support...

Life can be gut wrenching.

My questions to you are these.

Did you know your mother was a religious zealot?
Why did you marry an alcoholic? While people on the outside, their brains truly function differently.
Seems like you were in no shape to be raising a child?

In the end, you have the free will. You should only want a very little amount of dependence in your life. Seems like you look to others for the answers, when it is you who needed to find the truth.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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You made some mistakes as I'm sure you know. Easy mistakes to make trusting your own family, but religion can make people think stupid things. I mean, when people are concerned about where their soul is going for eternity, all based on lies, they do stupid things.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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WTF You were on welfare and the father walked free. I can't believe this shiet this is total crap. First off if You made that waste of sperm father do his stinking duty You wouldn't be in this spot. What on earth made You feel that You had the right to allow that piece of shiet that thinks he is a man get away with not supporting his child. This crap totaly pisses me off and I have to pay taxes to raise pieces of craps children like this....


Your first mistake was in allowing this piece of filth sperm doner to get away from his manly duties.

Second mistake was marrying a total looser which shows You have a very low self esteem and You have very bad taste in men.

Third mistake leaving Your children with someone like Your mother whom was a problem before hand. This is not about stinking religion its about the empty nest syndrome Your mother is going through and guess what all mothers go through it thats why men always have problems with the damn mother in laws because they but in and try to run our family from the side lines.

Fourth mistake You didn't fight long or hard enough against Your mother... I think or know deep down inside You think You are a total piece of garbage and You don't feel worthy so guess what You let that biatch roll right over You.

Fifth mistake You have fallen for the lies and have no self esteem. You need to get over Your shortcomings and man up to Your responsibility and take care of the blessing that GOD has given You...

Sixth mistake is You didn't utilize the options that are Yours by having Your employers to help You witch they can btw




When I read this story it pisses me off to no end. I am not trying to point the finger at You but I was abandoned as a child so I know how it feels. My father left and never came back which has affected me my whole life and left me with many scars. I told myself I would never abandon my child and I have stuck to that even if I am not 100% happy in my relationship. I could be just like every other looser and abandon my family for less responsibility but I refuse to do it. I am a seaman and I am gone 9 months out of the year to support my family and believe me if it was just me I wouldn't stay gone so long. I think You need to reevaluate Your life and answer the question do You feel unworthy of raising your child or are You not....


I am not trying to bash You or hurt You but to me it sounds like You have emotional issues or bagage from your past that needs to be adressed.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
Meanwhile they label everyone else as sinners or servants of the devil to cover their own transgressions. I watched how kind and understanding they are first hand, I was told by a few I was close to the truth and I told them Jesus was a alien hybrid and gave them my theory.....
They don't bug me too much anymore!!!


I've had two run ins with the JW. I had a female friend in high school who's mother joined the JW and once she did she married a JW. Because my friend refused to join her step dad used to beat her with his belt (she was 16 and a straight A student), she had an older sister who converted and slept with everyone in town. The older sister was only doing 'Gods work' by sleeping around while my friend was 'steeped in sin' for not converting. She ran away at 18 as soon as she graduated.

The second was I had a co-worker who was JW, she told me how her daughter had been raped and now that the child was 5 they were going to ritually purify her because she had been born in sin. The ritual involved fasting and flagilation with a cane.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Fom your first post i felt that you were leaving important pieces of your story out, that the blame game was in full mode and that you have not accepted your own blame in the tragic childhoods that it seems all of your children have had to endure.
So I read the whole thread trying to figure out if i am just a cold hearted bitch for my lack of sympathy until you got to your conclusion post and i realized that the tone of both posts is one of "look what everyone has done to ME?" Sorry but you have had at least 2 ( you never concluded what happened to the youngest child after sexual molestation charges were brought and you "just did not believe")children legally taken away from you for being an unfit parent, not once but twice. How convenient that both of your ex husbands wives were the same religion as your mother and were just as big of zealots. So everyone just decided to team up against you huh? Nothing was your fault, poor you.
I think you have probably fooled yourself into believing your own story to relieve the guilt that you should feel.
You didnt even bother to look at your daughters charges of sexual abuse by your third husband???? WTH is wrong with you? I have 3 children and if one of them said that someone touched them I am going totake it very seriously.
Maybe you did get a bad ride here, maybe your mother, ex's and their wives decided to team up against you, maybe you have no fault and have been an angel of a mother but I doubt it because your own lawyer told you to give it up. I went to court with my ex husband over my oldest child, HE HAD NO CASE BECAUSE HE HAD NOTHING AGAINST ME BECAUSE I AM A GOOD MOTHER. My lawyer would never have said to just give up well just because. And all of a sudden you care about the girls on the stand yet you didnt even bother to question the sexual abuse charges????? Give me a break.

I am not defending the religion but this thread should never have been about religion, the religion is an after thought in this story.

I know I will get trashed for my lack of sympathy but i dont care, bring it on.
I have 3 beautiful children that I love more than life, I have and will continue to do everything in my power to give them stability, happiness, love, understanding. a great childhood, respect, hope, etc. My oldest is from a previous marriage and we went to court and I remain and will always remain the full custody parent, the full time mom. Do not try to tell me the court system screwed you, I know my way around the system and yes many can get screwed but in most cases it is because the other party has more money for a better attorney or knows someone who knows someone.
Please stop trying to off your guilt on to everyone else and accept your part and then do everthing in your power to build loving relations with your children.
If you look at my posts on this board you will see I am for the most part a hippie boho who loves all and tries to see all sides but I cannot just sit here and let everyone pat you on the head and help you continue to deny your role in all of this.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by IchooseFreewill
How can this thread not be about religion. There are nuts out there that take things way to far. ALL and i mean all organized religions have the BS of join us or be dammed. its gotten to a point that most people are getting smart enough to see through religion. Its there to control you thats it, put you in a place where you have no control unless your god or savior says so, its pathetic. I give props to the OP for doing what she did ; enrolled in the military so she could provide a future to her children. I am truly sadden by the outcome. most ATS users who are religious,or their next generation in the coming years will not be I guarantee. why? because we deny ignorance.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by IchooseFreewill]


THIS IS NOT about RELIGION!

It is "Allegedly" about the Jehovas witnesses who do NOT represent most Christians much less any other religion but there own. They are one of the few religions that stood up to Nazi Germany and did what they could to help the jews in the concentration camps.

They are concientious objectors to any and all wars that have anything to do with killing people for political ends. They have some screwed up ideas about Jesus Christ and believe william taze russel was more than a con artist but they are not a violent people and I can't believe some of what I am hearing. Before I make any comment about the inconsistencies I have read in the OP's original post regarding how the laws are concerning family courts the lines are pretty black and white and unless we are not getting the entire story or have the benefit of hearing the other side of the story (the mother) I will NOT make this about how Religion destroys everything NOR will I let this allow for me to sweep the entire church of the JW's in with the absudity of the OP allegations about her mother whether it is true or not.

There is a problem going on here and I doubt I am getting a real balanced cut and dried perspective when erisa laws are one thing that don exactly corroborate her story and the other is something she said about the army that doesn't make sense but Ill send a u2u regarding that as it tends to get into sensitive areas of ones life trying to blend two types of juris prudence between that of the UCMJ and the Laws Civilians are under.

Look, it is true Religion as been the excuse to do some very bad things in world history but civilizations where the political state was atheist have done as much if not worse but even so we must differentiate between an excuse to blame it on atheism and the whacked out ideas of Stalin or mao etc just like we must between differen't religious cultures and beliefs.

I am not a JW but I am very familiar with what they teach and some of it is pretty out there but this is a clear case of parental alienation which is a well documented issue and strictly frowned on by family court.

Am I mis-understanding something or did the OP say she signed over "guardianship" and not given the child up for adoption by the mother?



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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you have a sad story, but why didn't you make smarter decisions in the first place?

like, not marrying an alcoholic and have a second child with him? did he start drinking only after marrying you? it seem like you found trouble from the get go.

why did you give up guardianship? there are many ways to have your kids cared for while you were in basic training.

i also realize it is very common to have a baby out of wedlock, but you also should have realized that you made very poor choices to begin with, maybe your daughter was better off with your mom.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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It seems that you should have reason to complain. There are certain points that need to be clarified, though. First, you´re saying that you´re mother changed dramatically because she found a religion yuo don´t accept. However, you stated that, from your daughter´s birth, you´re mother was always directing things. Her personality is like that, right? This has nothing to do with religion.

Second, you said that you could not get back the guardianship of your daughter. That is very strange! Is there something you´re not telling us?

Third, food for thoght: Do we really lose someone to others, or we lose ourselves from others?Your mother quit smoking which is a disgusting habit. Was this religion so bad that even helped your mom stop smoking?

Fourth, had your mother stayed an atheist would prevent her from acting the same way now that she has a religion?



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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This thread should be moved to BTS, where is the conspiracy?
I cannot believe how many of you are flagging this thread and patting the op on the head. You are just contributing to her own denial and saying it is okay to turn your head to possible sexual abuse allegations, abandoning your children and playing the "poor me" card. What about those children????
Come on people this is ATS go reread her posts and maybe you will see my lack of sympathy, didnt most of you read it thinking that it didnt make much sense and that there was alot missing???



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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I had some of those SOB's come by today...

Told them I was an athiest, I ate babies, and they were next on the menu.

(totally untrue)

They left.

As bad as the freakin moonies and hari krishnas!


May you and your little one be watched over and the hand of the Maker of us all be on you.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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My ex-wife had allegedly become a JW, but even they knew she wasn't one of them, or at least the one I spoke with. They were, from my understanding, opportunistic and with their own personal agendas. The one I worked for, was in some ways, a good friend with a bad history he just couldn't shake and didn't set a very good example as a JW either. There's a lot of hypocrisy in many of these groups.

When she had decided to leave me, they told her she would then be responsible for everything that happened with me, as-if to answer for my sins etc. Their threats had no effect/affect on her. She was only using them anyway. (what goes around......?)

There were some things I agreed with them on. But as a group or in particular, organized religion, I didn't ever trust these anyway.

I wouldn't deny a friendship or discussion with them, but I don't care for any of these groups knocking on my door unless it's JC himself or one of the angels.

I don't know your entire history, but I think the law isn't always on the right side either.

The one thing I mostly agreed with them on, was the system of things. But even our own elite believe the NWO is their answer. I doubt that would be the last system either.

All I can say is that things could be much worse in some way. You can only hope she'll wise up eventually, as many of them do and come back to you.

My sister is with one of those dispensational/evangelical groups and although I enjoyed some of their bible studies and sermons, I didn't feel I belonged there. ( MY time was not yet)



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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As a mother of four I can't get past a couple of things. 1) you gave up your kids to your mother knowing what sort of person she was. I mean you left because of some of those reasons correct? If it is too bad for you then how is it ok for your daughter you claim to love so much? 2) You married an abusive alcoholic? were you not aware of his drinking and abuse before you married him?

For me as a mother I can't get beyond those things right there. The rest of it almost doesn't even matter because you made those two choices right there and then act like you were blindsided. You willingly chose the military over someone who was the love of your life, your child? That to me says you were not doing what was in her best interest.

I have absolutely no doubt that you are really struggling with this and are experiencing a horrible loss of sorts. But what makes it that much worse is that most of this is your own doing. Sometimes our mistakes come with horrible consequences. Your mistakes cost you your daughters?? or just one daughter? I'm a bit confused about that one.

I would put aside everything you want, all your own issues and make every single action you do about fixing your relationship with your daughter. If you really want a relationship with her then this will have zero to do with you or how you were wronged. It will however have 100% to do with your daughters, what they want, what they like, what they believe, everything. Even if you don't like what they believe, give them the respect that you expect others to give you. This is alllll about them now and nothing about you until things are fixed.

At least that is my opinion as a mother. The past is just that and fixing blame on anyone almost doesn't matter at this point. What matters now is how to fix the past by making your daughters the center of your world and making it about them and not yourself.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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You have my profound sympathy. My sister got involved with those whackos and ended up dying because of their stupid prohibition on blood transfusions.

One sure way for my blood to boil is to have those stupid creeps show up at my door.






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