How I Lost My Daughter to Paradise - Jehovah's Witnesses

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posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Well that's a bit over-reached don't you think? Do you even have children?

If not, then you cannot assess this situation with as much clarity as you claim.


I have a girl that will be 5 yr old on the 8th.

And my boy is 1.5 yrs old.

This craps getting off topic.

How about we focus on Solutions for the OP???

I gave my simple 4 step plan. Anyone else have solutions that may help the situation?


Muzzleflash,

You have every right to be angry and your points ARE well taken. I do not forgive myself. I made mistakes. I had poor judgement. My daughter is not ok. She is 27 years old and is not ok. She is confused and unable to think for herself. She became addicted to painkillers because her emotions were too hard to handle.

It is my fault and the consequences of that do not go away. Time does not heal all wounds. I'm sitting here crying my eyes out trying to tell you I'm sorry. To tell her I'm sorry. I am sorry.

I didn't know how to handle my responsibilities. My mistakes have cost more than I can tell you. But I can't give up and stop trying to do better. I'm 48 now. The portion of my story in the OP is from 1982 through 1996.

Nothing is ever going to change your circumstances, or mine, or my daughters, or anyone on this board.

But hope is in the responses in this thread. Hope for all of us.




posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


In regards to my previous statements, I apologize. I am not taking my own advice, I should not judge you as I don't know what you've been through either.

Your honesty is much appreciated and I"ll do well to learn from your example.

Once again, my apologies friend.

~Keeper


no need to apologize it was not your fault

i came off a bit upset and i am sorry, as i have faced similar problems in my life and it gets me riled up

it was my bad - so i am sorry to you and everyone else including the OP

please just know I am trying to help in my own screwed up way



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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Come on guys let's all group hug.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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Please everyone remember, there are two sides to every story.

JW is an evil organization, but just keep in mind, the courts wouldn't take a kid away from a saint.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut

It is my fault and the consequences of that do not go away. Time does not heal all wounds. I'm sitting here crying my eyes out trying to tell you I'm sorry. To tell her I'm sorry. I am sorry.


I am sorry too. And I love you!

Being at fault for a mistake is not bad or wrong.

Denying it is bad.

Admitting fault is good(if its true) -- it makes you awesome!

The only reason I can even deal with my mother at all now, is because she apologized for it (many times over) although we still have issues that we have to work out.

That is why I told you, you can fix this! You kid loves you so much, you have no idea

You have to go talk to her. She needs you still. I know I still need my mother


Even tho i am almost always critical and angry with her, I still love her more than anything. Shes my real mom.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


So much misery and dysfunction, i am so sorry for the life of pain you have had/having.

Based on only your perspective i would guess your mothers and your issues run deeper than a specific religion. I think a culmination of life experiences shapes a persons personality(yours and moms actions) and not a religion she has only been associated with for a short time.

This is a really tragic story....dont give up on breaking the chains of dysfunction, keep working toward being in a position were you can be reunited with your girl. Please take care.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I agree 100%, even all the crap that my mother has put me through can't make me stop loving her. It can't make me not want a relationship with her, and a healthy one at that.

As confused as your daughter is about who she is and what she wants, she still sees you as her mother and she will forever love you. I'm hoping something happens which breaks her faith in this ridiculous Cult so she may begin to heal her wounds.

Perhaps you two can do it together. But it must be a joint effort.

~Keeper



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


I am so sorry to hear that. I hope, that some how, your daughter will see the "truth". Good luck x100.

I'm not the kind of person to rag on anyone's beliefs, I try to live a "live and let live" life. I, like you, had a child early. I was twenty, my then soon to be wife was twenty-five.

After a couple of years, we moved into our own house, across the street from a Jehova Witness.

Long story short, the time we lived there was absolutely crazy. While I was at work, the neighbors from across the street would come over, ask my then wife to come over for "lunch". Little did my wife know that it was basically an "intervention" like meeting with a TON of other JW's (Jehova Witnesses) there basically trying to FORCE convert her. My wife in defense said, "No, I can't become a JW, my husband would KILL me!". They tried to talk her into it by saying things like, "Oh, but when you become a JW, your husband will have to convert too, or else you will have to divorce him, and I'm sure he doesn't want to divorce you?"

It continued like that until I walked over there and threatened their lives saying that if they EVER come knocking at my door, call my wife while I was away or leave their damned pamphlets in our mail box, I'd have them strung up by their necks in my yard. (This of course came after several attempts at trying to get them to stop, each and every time, they'd say "OK" but to only continue trying to convert my wife behind my back because they knew very well I would never convert.) I never felt "good" about it, but it made them STOP.

Another thing which surprises me, is a story my now ex-wife told me. One of her friends was stressing to become pregnant. She was infertile. Her hopes of gaining a child was dashed, she was depressed as well as her husband.

Well, the same lady "friend" that tried to force convert my ex-wife said she could help. She said she had a pill that would give her (my ex-wife's friend) a chance at getting pregnant. But she only get the pill if she became a JW since it's a "JW kept secret". Of course, my ex-wife's friend jumped onboard and converted. She got the "pill" and lo and behold, nothing happened. Her husband which was an Atheist got royally pissed. Their marriage ended six months after.

I know this sounds insane, but unfortunately, these are the tactics used by some (not all) Jevhova Witnesses.

Because of the above mentioned stories, I keep a good distance from anyone being a JW.

So I can only imagine what Hazelnut's mother did to her and her daughter. I get goosebumps from the thought, and it breaks my heart.

Again Hazelnut, I'm hoping things will turn around for you. I hope your daughter will see the truth and how her grandmother manipulated her.

If you ever need to talk to someone who dislikes JW's as much as you, I'm a U2U away.


Peace,
FK



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by Frontkjemper
 


I agree with you..lol.. they are seriously sneaky an dnot in a good way.

What I always wonderied why the hell are the JW trying to convert more people? I mean their belief cleary says that:

That on 144000 will be in heaven to reign with God.

So what gives..lol.. I know the answer, but its always humored me...

[edit on Jul 5th 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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I too am really sorry for your tragic situation, but it does NOT have to continue to be this way. You guys are all still alive and able to communicate in a compassionate, loving and forgiving manner.... who of you will break the ice?????

I am one of Jehovah's Witness. I converted in my early twenties, it was a VERY informed, intelligent decision on my part, so I was NOT "brainwashed" into anything. I wish I would have converted earlier, it would have saved me a lot of heart ache, and bad choices on my part.

I also can sympathize with your daughter... I lost my mother in death when I was 7 years old.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the religion had nothing to do with your situation, but I will say that I think it goes way deeper than that.

Everyone has been quick to trash my so call "cult" without knowing the full story.

I would love to hear the story from both your mother's and daughter's perspective, so that we may be in a better position to judge.

Anyway, I do feel for you and all involved. It's not too late though to patch things up.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by Frontkjemper
 


I agree with you..lol.. they are seriously sneaky an dnot in a good way.

What I always wonderied why the hell are the JW trying to convert more people? I mean their belief cleary says that:

That on 144000 will be in heaven to reign with God.

So what gives..lol.. I know the answer, but its always humored me...

[edit on Jul 5th 2009 by TheMythLives]


From what I understand, according to "The Truth", Armageddon won't occur until The Word is preached all over the world and every single person has been given the "choice" to choose Jehovah. That is why they preach from door-to-door. Once that has been accomplished, then Jehovah will begin Armageddon. I got on the hitlist because I chose to turn away. That is an even worse sin to them.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Yes that is one of three reasons. I really know to much about religions that is is somewhat embarassing and shameful, in a good way of course. But hey thats how the world works. Opposing views is what brings people together.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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Now that I think of it, my sister-in-law was raised a Jehovah's Witness. My brother gave her a teddy bear for Christmas when they had just started dating, it was the first Christmas gift she'd ever received. I think the teddy bear won her over to the "dark side".


Her father tried to convert my brother by telling him that he'd buy them a house and that my brother would be able to make money doing door-to-door visits to convert other people. But my brother refused.

They've been married about 15 years now and celebrate Consumermas yearly, in the typical non-Christian way.

Hazelnut, I hope your mother hasn't forced your daughter to marry another JW yet. I'm sure it's probably part of her plans for your daughter. That would make your/her situation even more difficult. LOL diffi-CULT... I crack myself up!



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Hazelnut
 

What has been going on since? I hope you have had custody returned to you? And your mother, what a woman she is.....

~Keeper


First, I'm sorry to hear what you went through with your kids. It is hard to understand why people want to make life so hard for other people. And thank you for sharing your painful experience with me.

My story left off when I received the word that my daughter supposedly requested to live with her father at the end of court ordered visitation, who incidentally hadn't spend 20 minutes with her before the court battle in 1994 that I won. My mother was the one responsible for bringing her absent father into the picture.

After two years of court and mediation and the whole nine yards, my daughter wrote a three-page (legal size) handwritten statement villanizing me. She wrote that I was abusive and negligent and that she was afraid of me, that I mistreated her. Since it was in her own handwriting, the judge granted temporary emergency custody to her father (in cahoots with mom).

I have another daughter that I mentioned in the OP. Her father, my oldest daughter's step-father was also in on the plot from the beginning. His new wife and the new wife of my oldests' dad got together with my Mom to get my daughters back.

The lies they came up with were fed to each of my daughter's seperately. My oldest daughter claimed that I abused her physically, mentally and emotionally. But the real blowup occured when my youngest daughter went on her court ordered visitation 6 weeks later.

This time, the charges and accusations were not only against me, but of my third husband. She said he sexually molested her. She was 10 at the time and I had just had my third daughter who was only four months old.

Children's Services in two states got involved. My husband was removed from our house. Both of my daughters had emergency orders granted giving their fathers custody pending investigation in another state.

The investigators interviewed me, told me I was lying and threatened to take my baby. I didn't believe my husband had molested my daughter and told the social worker the history behind the accusation. However, the wheels of social services are geared against the parent.

In order to avoid having my daughters testify in court on the accusations that I believed were lies, and on the advice of my attorney, I painfully decided to rescind my parental rights and responsibilities to both of my daughters. I did it because I could not allow them to be put onto a witness stand and be proven to be lying. I loved them too much and felt forced to let them go.

...long story short...8 years later I was reunited with my girls, one at a time after they each had a child of their own. They each confirmed the lies originated with my mother and her congregation.

As for my mother? She did not get my daughter. Her father did. And his new wife who is even worse than my mom. Mom got sick and slowly deteriorated until she died almost 2 years ago.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by Hazelnut
 


Well thank you for sharing that, I am happy that in the end you still did get to see your daughters and they attempted to mend some bridges with you.

As for your mother, well I'm too tactful to express my feelings over her untimely fate.

I had much the same experience with my children, I have 3 so after the fiasco with Andrea, my mother decided it would be great to do it for all of them too.

And the worse part is, for a time, the schools were against us too. They said the fact that my husband was a pediatrician was cause enough to investigate wether or not we were "touching" our children in a homosexual manner. Even though our children were quite old enough, my eldest being about 10 at this point to clearly speak out in our defense.

Since that time multiple lawsuits were filed and we were on the receiving end of some very nice judgments against the school and a certain person from social services, but the fact is that these kinds of persecution because of religion happen all the time.

Even now, we are attempting to adopt a fourth from Euthanisia and they initially denied our request because the application had both our names on it as "married". I had to refile alone to get through pre-screening.

What a ridiculous mess.

Anyway, My heart goes out to you and your family, just don't forget they love you and that your trials will make their children stronger since you will have a bounty of advice for them.

And you have friends here too my dear, don't feel afraid to reach out. I'm only a U2U away
.

~Keeper

[edit on 7/5/2009 by tothetenthpower]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Half of my fathers siblings are witnesses. Seem to be fairly nice people, and I always wondered why I could never go stay over with my cousins. I think i've got a pretty good idea why now. What amazes me is just how much money they give to their "church". My uncle has owned a few businesses in his life and was actually quite successful with them. Unfortunately they have no money to show for it due to their constant giving to the church. Seems quite a shame, they could have had a much easier time of it in their lives.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


My daughter's name is Andrea too. A coincidence to be sure.

It is my most fervent hope that people learn to stop interferring and start learning how to accept each other's differences.

I studied several religions because of my exposure to JW's. I had never been to church or even thought about god before they came along. Now I believe that my focus combined with strong emotion can create the world I want to live in. I hope its true...even if it isn't it a better way to look at life in general.

Sometimes I think I'm a Wiccan, sometimes I think I'm just a student of life and sometimes I think that we are all here to experience as much as we can. In this particular lifetime, it seems like everyone is having monumental personal challenges. Could it be that we are actually all players in a rather huge theater?



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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Sorry to hear about this. Sadly, it is more common than you think.

Your story sounds just like all those families broken and torn apart by cults. Guess why? Because Jehovah's Witnesses are basically a cult themselves.

I know the damage religious fanatics can do to a family. I have an Aunt and 2 cousins that are 7th Day Adventists, and they try the conversion and 'saving' stuff non stop because they truly believe the world is about to end and I am going to be judged and sent to hell (any day now).

I'm not going to offer any specific advice, because my advice usually ends in making things worse for people. Just stay strong. If you love your daughter as much as you say, fight for her. Go through every last option and appeal available to you. Find a councilor you can trust and have her treated (when you get her back).



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by Hazelnut
 


You’re a brave woman to have persisted, your strength is a testament to your love. I lost my first four children, wife and home while still in a coma; sadly allowing the guilt of having not been there as daddy for more than a few months at best each year (due to ‘Uncle Sam’s World Tour’) to cause me to give up. There is not a day I do not regret this.

[edit on 7/5/2009 by SGTChas]


Dude ... you have my sympathies. I hope you have found happiness in life after that, but I sure as hell wouldn't blame ya if you haven't.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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i live part of the year in n.arizona and southern utah. for anyone who has not heard the horror stories about the extremists like warren jeffs, these groups can be very dangerous, especially to children. i'm sure there's been threads here about this.

i'm saddened by your story, please fight the depression that is associated with this.





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