I am writing this thread in response to many threads I have seen about that Hell does not exist. I would like to offer my humble opinion as it relates to my own spiritual path. I offer this information to only show that there are other ways to think about this issue.

For the past year I have grown spiritually very quickly. So quickly in fact it is astonishing to myself. I call this experience spiritual enlightenment and there are several stages in it progression each step accelerates.

Step 1: ALL is not as it appears to be
I began this phase many years ago, began questioning why things on this earth operated the way they do. We all encounter situations in our lives that cause us to reflect on them in order for us to understand the purpose or cause of these situations.


Step 2: The search for truth
You begin searching for what is true. During this phase you struggle to grasp the reality, as you use your old ideas and beliefs to justify the truth. By the end of this phase you realize you were no closer to the truth, because you defended your own position so adamantly against others beliefs. All beliefs were from the same set of belief systems that supported your initial opinions to begin with. This was the hardest phase for me to overcome. I had to acknowledge that most of the beliefs of why things were they way they were in this world, were products of how I interpreted my reality, and how I limited myself from the truth when I tossed the old beliefs at others old beliefs creating a environment that resulted in no truth every being found. To get to the next step I had to clean my slate of beliefs.

"For then shall be great tribulations, such as not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor shall ever be." -Matthew 24:21


Step 3: Acknowledge that all things are possible
That's right everything, every idea is possible, and you must believe this. Once you do, you don't need to concern yourself with arguing a point against someone who doesn't get what you are saying unless that person is open to entertaining the idea. For most of your points that you will make in this phase you are coming from the opinion that anything is possible, which you search for understanding on not is it possible or not, but How could it be possible. Do not cast your pearls before swines, they won't get where you are coming from that you are not concerned with old belief systems, but rather creating a better place and life.

"I am the light of the world, He who follows ME shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." -John 8:12


Step 4: Seeing through physicality
In an instant you will have the wool removed from your eyes. The clues are all around us. We are living in Hell as described through religious text. You shall know them from their works is a famous quote from the bible, referring to gods people. However, if you have not become enlightened you will never see them. As their works go against everything that an unenlightened man would fear. If you are not enlightened you will view these people as threats to your physical existence, you will wonder who does this person think they are, they can't have my power. Know that these people operate with a sense of duty to their chosen path. I see them very clearly on these boards...yet, people spit on them like they have placed themselves on a throne, when in fact they have not. In this phase you will read the bible and all religious text and it all has the same meaning. It's spiritual not physical and the Hell you all envision is right here. So, do you want to continue living in hell and miss the boat to redeem yourselves spiritually? You get an opportunity right now. Allow each the opportunity to explore their own path, and judge nobody as they are you just moments before. Remember this has nothing to do with physical acts. Remember when the Kingdom comes to earth there will be those locked out. That is the spiritual locked out not a physical locked out.

The mark of the beast is the devil's system of governing. If you go against the system you will not be allowed to buy or sell. That's right once you accept that nice paying job, and something unjust is occurring you better not speak up. You will offend those that wish to keep their power and you will be out of work.

"I am the Creator of all and Lord over the devils as well as over the angels, and no one will escape my judgement. The devil, in fact, sinned in a threefold manner against me: namely, through pride; through envy; and through arrogance, i.e., through love of his own will. He was so proud indeed that he wished to be lord over me and that I should be subject to him. He also envied me so much that if it were possible, he would gladly have killed me in order to be lord himself and sit on my throne. Indeed, his own will was so dear to him that he cared nothing at all about my will so long as he could perform his own will. Because of this, he fell from heaven; and no longer an angel, he became a devil in the depth of hell.

But what are those human beings who are my enemies doing to me now? In truth, they have contempt for my precepts; they cast me out of their hearts like a loathsome poison; indeed, they spit me out of their mouths like something rotten; and they abhor the sight of me as if I were a leper with the worst of stenches. But the devil and his works they embrace in their every affection and deed. For they bring him into their hearts, doing his will with delight and gladness and following his evil suggestions. Therefore, by my just judgement they shall have their reward in hell with the devil eternally without end." -Saint Birgitta Prophecy Book 7, Chapter 27

Aw, you knew I was going to chime in.

As I see it, we are, for the first time in our history, capable of casting off slavery to machines, and building heaven here on Earth.

In the process, we will lose money, and all laws but the three, To harm no one willfully, to neither steal nor damage that which is another's willfully, and to defraud none in any manner.

The last will seldom be an issue without money, and the first two will also seldom be called to Witness. When we are free, we spend our time with those we like, and not with those we don't.

Love will prevail.

And Now is a choice of whether we fall or whether we reign triumphant. And all that has to happen is for enough of us thinking in the abundance paradigm soon enough, and passing it on as widely as we have the power to do so.

All religious explanations aside, we can make this happen, merely by spreading the word.

A tool to this end is my book, linked in my sig.

The term prison planet, makes more sense every day now doesn't it?

Funny how that is. In any case, I think your generally correct, but mind you it's not for any religious reasons, or "Hell" as xtians put it.

Hell is just a state of mind, which was created out of the collection of negative energy and thoughts being distributed among sentient beings. That's what reality is anyway, just a collection of thoughts and ideas which collided with eachother.

In my case, I am a bit more of a optimist, I see the beauty in all things and refuse to believe that I've dug myself a miserable existance.

~Keeper

I think I see what you are saying.

With enlightenment comes unity with God and if any human being hasn't attained this, they are actually in the dark, which is seperation from God and that is hell-like.

I know many good people and some frequent this site, that don't quite get, that the kingdom of heaven and God, that Jesus taught is a spiritual one, that has been happening for almost 2000 years. He stated, that it is NEAR, that his kingdom is NOT of this world (if it was his servants would have fought), and that people need to WATCH and WAKE UP. Perception is everything pertaining to spirituality.

When more people start waking up to this fact, and really realize that with God ALL things are possible, then the seeking will really start for them. And those that really seek, really find.

Even the coming of Elijah is of a spiritual nature and most have failed to recognize his coming. That or they are just not putting two and two together.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]

The Kingdom has already come here to Earth, for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear. Hell is supposed to be the farthest a person can get from God, and just so happens Earth is also the farthest. Love your neighbor as yourself, that's all we need to do in spirituality. I know some like to make it complicated and abstract, but its that simple. It isn't just unity with God, its unity among people which people sometimes forget.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
The Kingdom has already come here to Earth, for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear. Hell is supposed to be the farthest a person can get from God, and just so happens Earth is also the farthest. Love your neighbor as yourself, that's all we need to do in spirituality. I know some like to make it complicated and abstract, but its that simple. It isn't just unity with God, its unity among people which people sometimes forget.

Loving our neighbors as ourselves, just comes with the territory. Spirituality is an ongoing, evolving relationship with God. He's the teacher who brings us into all these spiritual truths.

I think we are all at very different levels (for lack of a better word) on the path.

Really, it's all about the understanding, the actions are a result of that understanding.

And this is where the debate between Amaterasu and ExPostFacto on religion arrives. The truth is, they are both right/wrong. Religion can be, and has been used to misguide and manipulate people. So Amaterasu is right about that. However, that is done among people who lack understanding. When you gain understanding, then the bible itself becomes a tool that will help someone spiritually. And so ExPostFacto is right about that.

It's like a knife. We can use that knife to harm others, or we can use that knife to cut our dinner in half and share it with others. It's all a matter of how it's being used. When the bible is used in a dogmatic way of acceptance, Amaterasu is correct. When the bible is being used to express and see understanding, then ExPostFacto is right.

If you look at Proverbs 8 and Proverbs 9, it says what stands atop the highest places, understanding and wisdom. When it's about acceptance, rather than those 2 things, then it becomes bad(Psalm 82).

Proverbs 8

1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

And

Proverbs 9

1Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

I guess my perspective is a bit different from some here... I see words of "joining with God and His Kingdom" or similar, and it doesn't sit well in my heart.

For I see myself as everybody as God. We are the creative force. We create the Now. And Now is the only thing that's real.

I am, and I am each of you as each of you is me. So there is no Him to join with.

This is not to say that I don't understand the perspective of a Him (or Her or It) "out there" ... But once one does that, it removes one from the responsibility of what one creates in the Now. When one comes from the perspective I have, one must accept that responsibility.

And then the onus falls on one to do all they can to better the Universe in any way one can. Are you a loving God or a hateful one?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I guess my perspective is a bit different from some here... I see words of "joining with God and His Kingdom" or similar, and it doesn't sit well in my heart.

For I see myself as everybody as God. We are the creative force. We create the Now. And Now is the only thing that's real.

I am, and I am each of you as each of you is me. So there is no Him to join with.

This is not to say that I don't understand the perspective of a Him (or Her or It) "out there" ... But once one does that, it removes one from the responsibility of what one creates in the Now. When one comes from the perspective I have, one must accept that responsibility.

And then the onus falls on one to do all they can to better the Universe in any way one can. Are you a loving God or a hateful one?

But what you are saying is what the bible says. The father is not "out there", the father is "within".

John 14

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

...

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Christianity != bible/Jesus or the father. Everything Jesus says about the Pharisees, you can see many Christian churches do. Not all of course, can't speak in broad terms. But as far as what you are thinking and looking at it as, yes.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I guess my perspective is a bit different from some here... I see words of "joining with God and His Kingdom" or similar, and it doesn't sit well in my heart.

For I see myself as everybody as God. We are the creative force. We create the Now. And Now is the only thing that's real.

I am, and I am each of you as each of you is me. So there is no Him to join with.

This is not to say that I don't understand the perspective of a Him (or Her or It) "out there" ... But once one does that, it removes one from the responsibility of what one creates in the Now. When one comes from the perspective I have, one must accept that responsibility.

And then the onus falls on one to do all they can to better the Universe in any way one can. Are you a loving God or a hateful one?

But what you are saying is what the bible says. The father is not "out there", the father is "within".

Indeed, but even looking for "Him" inside, as if there is a separateness, rather than accepting that we are the one(s) we have been waiting for, as Godhead in each of us...

The John 14 quote is as if someone outside is speaking - outside, inside, else than we are. "Not me but another who sent me..."

So I would not say that what I see is anything but superficially what is said in this passage.

Christianity != bible/Jesus or the father. Everything Jesus says about the Pharisees, you can see many Christian churches do. Not all of course, can't speak in broad terms. But as far as what you are thinking and looking at it as, yes.

I agree about the churches. And I do not say that Jesus had nothing to say. But I will say that I am him, as he is me, as you are him and he is you... This does not mean that any conscious spark of me will choose to be that aspect of ourself. And it is the choosing to never do unto another that which one would not want the other to do unto one that is the best determinant in whether one is manifesting the Godhood that that spark of consciousness has the choice to be.

I see no need of dogma, and any hatred. And especially so if we eliminate money.

I know my perspective is less than conventional, but as such, I will commune with other sparks, as Gods that they are, and exercise my Godhood in making it clear when another is doing unto me in a manner I suspect they would not like others to do unto them.

Gently if I can, with will if I must.

Thank you for your thoughts. [smile]

Again, I agree with both of your perspectives. I find them equally relevant. GOD can equally be you and me at the same time be within us all. I think you guys are arguing the same point, but a different perspective on that point as it relates to the interpretation of that point in this current reality.

Kudos to both of you...the truth shall set us free.