Why has nobody thought this about roswell, page 1

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Topic started on 5-7-2009 @ 12:27 PM by RyanLA123

I know a gentleman who's grandfather was in the military during the time of the Roswell incident and we were speaking the other day about ufos, aliens and area 51. He says his grandfather knew why the roswell incident happened and that all it was was a deception purportrated by the US military to scare the Russians. The first sighting by Kenneth Arnold may have been what it was but the US military grabbed hold of it and said how can we use this. So a fake story was put out saying the US military had recovered a UFO and in that case we were going to study it. So the Russians might think twice about any invasion of Europe. The Russians given their own investigation into the incident and coming to the conclusion that it was true might be worried about what the Americans had in their possesion when it probably was project mogul. Interesting point of view to me and very possible. Tell me what you think.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:34 PM by suzque66

I was thinking this the other day too.

To use the myth of aliens for 1. to keep other countries in fear that we may have some futuristic and powerful weaponry or 2. to use as a ruse for a fraudulent future alien invasion for any number of reasons. (if use of religion doesn't work).

This would make anyone who has come forward a paid disinformant giving no actual evidence except their eyewitness testimony that some believe, some don't. Explains why there has been no admitting of any actual caught UFO's (I'm sure there are tons of them, but less likely they could drop out of the sky). This explains no disclosure at this time. They want the out of reach paranoia, just in case they need to use it for their benefit.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:48 PM by RyanLA123

I would not jump to the conclusion of a paid disinformation agent, maybe it was project mogul and people saw debris they could not explain. The military being what it is would just warp and distort the facts futher thats all.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:53 PM by Melyanna Tengwesta

Originally posted by RyanLA123
I know a gentleman who's grandfather was in the military during the time of the Roswell incident and we were speaking the other day about ufos, aliens and area 51. He says his grandfather knew why the roswell incident happened and that all it was was a deception purportrated by the US military to scare the Russians. The first sighting by Kenneth Arnold may have been what it was but the US military grabbed hold of it and said how can we use this.

It could be possible that this is true although I do not believe so.

As far as you asking 'why had nobody thought this about roswell' you're wrong.

Nobody's name is Steven Spielberg (diretor) and Leslie Bohem (writer)
of the miniseries Taken in 2002.

en.wikipedia.org...(mini_series)

In the first episode there are a couple of military guys that come up with a similar idea. Although in the series it turns out that there are in fact Aliens who take people with them and monitor them and their kids, grandkids for generations

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:53 PM by Melyanna Tengwesta

Originally posted by RyanLA123
I know a gentleman who's grandfather was in the military during the time of the Roswell incident and we were speaking the other day about ufos, aliens and area 51. He says his grandfather knew why the roswell incident happened and that all it was was a deception purportrated by the US military to scare the Russians. The first sighting by Kenneth Arnold may have been what it was but the US military grabbed hold of it and said how can we use this.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:00 PM by fls13

reply to post by RyanLA123

There certainly could be something to what the grandfather says. Of course, Roswell is only one case, an important case, but it's still only one.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:14 PM by Kandinsky

It's a plausible idea, but overlooks the fact that 'something' certainly crashed there. Eyewitnesses described a large debris field and uniformed soldiers removing the debris on flat bed trucks. What the hell actually crashed is up for discussion and the USAF repeated attempts to explain what it was have just confused the matter.

Given the climate at the time, it wouldn't surprise me if the military fostered the 'crashed UFO' story to worry the Soviets. We're still no closer to understanding what really crashed.

If it wasn't for the awful official attempts to explain the incident, it'd be just one more BS story. Where are all the soldiers that were involved in the debris recovery? Why haven't any of them come forward with their story? The back-engineered stories fail to take into account that we already had transistors, fibre optics etc.

Despite all this, we're left with the impression that 'something' unusual happened. We're also left without being able to rely on official accounts of Roswell. A conundrum indeed!

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:18 PM by kidflash2008

reply to post by RyanLA123

One major problem with that theory is that the Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1991. Why didn't the Air Force come clean with that theory instead of pushing the Mogul Balloon theory?

There have been much bigger former secrets released to the public, including the fact that a top level mole from the United States was in the Kremlin during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He knew there was not going to be a confrontation and JFK had to keep the information secret as it would of betrayed our spy there. (There are several books on the former Soviet Union that have the information there, including books by James Bamford.)

If that big secret can be revealed, then the fake saucer story would definitely be discussed.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:22 PM by tothetenthpower

Well we know they used programs like Project Bluebook among others to purposely put out misinformation about UFO studies being done by the government.

In an attempt at disclosure they actually created more evidence against them with the information we have now. So your OP is actually quite plausible.

It would not have surprised me if they used the idea of a UFO and UFO tech to keep Russia at bay during those times.

An interesting notion,

~Keeper

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:27 PM by arbiture

Originally posted by RyanLA123
I know a gentleman who's grandfather was in the military during the time of the Roswell incident and we were speaking the other day about ufos, aliens and area 51. He says his grandfather knew why the roswell incident happened and that all it was was a deception purportrated by the US military to scare the Russians. The first sighting by Kenneth Arnold may have been what it was but the US military grabbed hold of it and said how can we use this. So a fake story was put out saying the US military had recovered a UFO and in that case we were going to study it. So the Russians might think twice about any invasion of Europe. The Russians given their own investigation into the incident and coming to the conclusion that it was true might be worried about what the Americans had in their possesion when it probably was project mogul. Interesting point of view to me and very possible. Tell me what you think.

This topic has facinated me no end since I first heard "rumors" in 1983.I never had direct access to the really neat stuff, (like seeing an alien etc). But I worked on the early stealth programs. I found just what an exclussive club this was.I had access to materials we could not identify, it took us years just to figure out what they were in action, in some cases we STILL don't know what thier made of. I knew some of the most important people in intell. and military circles. One guy said to me if its not alien, its magic. Though retired, I try to keep my hand on.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:29 PM by Kandinsky

reply to post by kidflash2008

Good points KF. If the Roswell incident was just a victory for Cold War psyops they would have pressed the button marked 'Bragging Rights: ENABLED!" as soon as it was over.

I won't be at all surprised if it remains a mystery to my dying day! Disappointed...not surprised.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:38 PM by jkrog08

reply to post by RyanLA123

I would say that it is a logical explanation in a case with many logical and non-logical explanations. I do not believe it though, for many reasons. It is also possible it was disinformation. Either way there is just WAY to much evidence pointing to a crash of some advanced air/spacecraft in Roswell in July of 47', as well another possible crash near by in the plains of San Augusta.

Reply to Kardinsky

There are many crash retrieval witnesses who have come forth, in fact there is well over 100 witnesses who have come forth about the crash and the bodies. That is what makes this case so solid.

Much attention is being given to a new book, Witness to Roswell: Unmasking the 60-Year Cover-Up by Thomas J. Carey, and Donald R. Schmitt. The book is offered at a very low price, and if you have an interest in it, now is the time to buy. I would like to point out some of the key points of new facts given in the book.
The most compelling piece of information is from one Walter Haut, who was the Roswell base public information officer. He wrote, under the direction of Colonel Blanchard, the now famous press release that was carried in papers all over the world proclaiming that the Air Force was in possession of a flying saucer. Of course, this was soon retracted.

Haut, now deceased, filled out a notarized affidavit in 2002, to only be opened after his death. This document makes some incredible claims. First of all, reiterating previous oral claims, he states that he actually saw the debris of the crashed flying saucer, and several alien bodies with big heads. This occurred at the now infamous Hangar 84 on July 8.

He also affirms what many Roswell researchers have stated-a second crash site besides the one at the Foster Ranch. The second site allegedly held the main saucer and alien bodies. The northern most site had been found by civilians, and this news was being spread throughout the small town of Roswell.

On July 9, Haut was in attendance at a staff meeting, where members were brought up to speed on the events of the day. Jesse Marcel Sr. and Sheridan Cavitt briefed members on the wreckage at the Foster Ranch, while Blanchard, who had accompanied Haut to the hangar, briefed members on the northern crash site and alien bodies. Haut also states that General Ramey and Colonel Dubose were in attendance. It was at this meeting that battle plans were drawn to debunk the saucer story to the general public.

During this meeting, members were shown and able to handle material picked up from the crash sites. Haut had brought back debris of his own on at least one occasion. Haut also stated that clean-up crews were sent to the crash sites for months to be certain nothing was left behind.

Besides the Haut testimony, several other witnesses of importance are discussed in the book. A Sgt. Frederick Benthal, who was an Army photographer from Washington, D. C. is one of them. He was taken to the site of the dead alien bodies, and photographed them, housed in a tent. The tent was guarded by one PFC Ed Sain, whose son was told that his father was taken to the body site, and ordered to shoot anyone who tried to enter the tent. He also mentions another military policeman, Cpl. Raymond Van Why, who was with Benthal at the site.

Benthal's wife states that he talked about the Roswell event in 1954, after he left the military. He stated that he had been a guard at a crash site, and had actually seen an alien space craft.

Another witness of importance was Sgt. Homer Rowlette, who was a member of the 603rd Air Engineering Squadron. His son and daughter stated that he told them on his deathbed about his involvement in the clean-up detail. He also had handled the famous "Roswell foil." He also claimed to have seen three little bodies with big heads at the scene. He stated that one of the aliens was still alive.

What I have related to you is just a small bit of the vast amount of information in the aforementioned book, and also contained on Internet web sites, message boards, and forums. What are the odds that all of these people are lying, even in affidavits, and on their death beds? The moral of this story is this: Don't give up on Roswell yet. The saga continues...

ufos.about.com...

Also transistors and fiber optics were in very early stages and there was no progress being made needed for the big breakthrough for the most part. So it does appear something sparked the surge in inventions.

The first transistor was invented at Bell Laboratories on December 16, 1947 by William Shockley

www.cedmagic.com...

December, the crash was in July. So in my theory likely what happened was we saw their transistor type technology and that provided the boost needed to finally invent this project being worked on since the 20's. Some thought it was not possible or not worth it actually, so we can see that either the breakthrough was genuinely human or we had help.

The fiber optics as we know and love today were not invented in any practical format until the mid to late sixties. And the difference between the models and theories and mechanism before and after the crash is truly astounding. So it lends some credence to the back engineered theory IMO.
inventors.about.com...

[edit on 7/5/2009 by jkrog08]

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:42 PM by jkrog08

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Actually Blue Book was a clearly legitimate government organization truly trying to research UFOs, at least until the early sixties. Blue Book believed a lot of their unknown cases (there were many, so they did not vainly debunk everything) were of ET origin, well most of the personal anyways. Really they get a bad rap, when in reality it was the CIA ran Robertson Panel that purposefully debunked UFO cases, regardless of evidence. They are also responsible for the stigma associated with UFOs and ufologists today. After Blue Book was closed in 69' the full blown and wide spread cover-up began, there is no question about that. The CIA and DoD had fully taken over. Look at the Blue Book cases, you will see all the real evidence and conclusions, it is thanks to them that we know so much about the early cases that are the core of ufology.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:44 PM by jkrog08

reply to post by Melyanna Tengwesta

Oh man I love Taken, I never have seen the last two episodes though.

I will someday maybe,lol...

Great show as usual from Spielberg, Dakota Fanning and some of the other actors really make it as well.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:45 PM by jkrog08

reply to post by kidflash2008

I agree, if it was a fake saucer cover-up then I am pretty sure the US government would be more than willing to say it and provide documentation to shut up the UFO crowd,lol.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 02:05 PM by RyanLA123

But they did with the Roswell report case closed. I love this topic and I want to believe but how can these craft be so far advanced to travel through space than come to earth only to crash, POS technology if you ask me.

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 02:21 PM by jkrog08

reply to post by RyanLA123

What do you mean by "POS"??

We humans are working on some promising theories for FTL travel, as well as some implications for time travel. It is not as far out there as one would think.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 02:38 PM by Kandinsky

reply to post by jkrog08

The transistor was made more practical by Shockley and Pearson using the work and designs of Lilienfeld.The patent was filed in the 1920s and prevented Shockley/Pearson from successfully filing a patent that made no acknowledgment to Lilienfeld. It was (loosely) an example of intellectual property theft and resulted in their having legal papers served...John Bardeen and Transistor Physics.

Optical fibers have a history of precursors that remove the necessity for claiming alien origin...A Fiber-Optic chronology

I've been through this on other threads...often!

The military witness accounts are often received second-hand through friends, relatives or colleagues and therefore unreliable. The Jesse Marcel account is a more persuasive matter...something about his manner is convincing (link ). The point I'm making is that the whole incident is shrouded in a fog of lies, truths, half-truths, hoaxes and changed accounts. It would be irrational to make the decision that an alien craft was recovered based on all the confounding evidence.

It remains interesting and well worth speculating from certain perspectives. The kernel of fact that is not in dispute is that something most certainly crashed that day. The 'what' remains speculative...I like the notion of a crashed craft, but can't reasonably draw a conclusion

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 02:41 PM by kindred

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. The Russians ain't stupid. I don't think this ruse would work, because the Russians would simply call their bluff and send out similar propaganda that an Alien spaceship had crash landed on Russian territory and by their reckoning, it's at least 10,000 years ahead of current technology. Now whose worried.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by kindred]

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 03:09 PM by suzque66

What about this?

looks like really bad acting, no>?

www.youtube.com...

in fact there are tons of really crappy Russian (supposed old KGB) videos of landings. Perhaps they realized that Hollywood was not their forte. video.google.com...

www.dailymotion.com...

aka, did the Russians do the same thing in hopes that the US would intercept and find out by some spy to give them the idea that they might have the same (or better) technology?

[edit on 5-7-2009 by suzque66]

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