Taibbi: NYSE ends transparency to protect Goldman Sachs, page 1
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Topic started on 5-7-2009 @ 12:05 AM by Frankidealist35

Taibbi: NYSE ends transparency to protect Goldman Sachs


rawstory.com
The New York Stock Exchange quietly announced last week that it would end its practice of requiring companies to report all their program trading — a move that helps shield large investment banks, particularly Goldman Sachs, from public scrutiny.

The new rule means the public will no longer be able to tell if large investment banks are manipulating the stock market for their own gain, says Matt Taibbi, the journalist whose Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachs’ role in asset bubbles over the past century has rocked the financial world.

According to previous NYSE rules, any company t
(visit the link for the full news article)


reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:27 AM by GreenBicMan
All trading is going the way of this actually.

Retail and Institutional alike.

There are programs called sniffers that look for GS type trading and go after it. Currently, there are programs that defeat them. But I believe by 2015 I think I read (not sure of the date) up to 85% of all volume will be done by automatic trading machines.

If you are a retail player, you are already far behind if you are not in these yourself. The game actually changed about 10 years ago (as early as the late 80's)

Right now, a large % of institutional trades are done this way. All for various reasons.. but the thing is this article does not articulate everything going on in the marketplace at one time, and I have yet to see algo's go after each other with so much liquidity on the tableto actually change the prevailing trend

These programs are just not set to

1. Go ok, we are just going to keep buying to drive everything up

2. Go ok, we are just going to keep shorting to drive everything down


These programs are either analytical statistical tools that trade by discretion from input (programmer) or algo's that look for volume and trade discrepancies and try to do a number of things.

There are programs that look for dark liquidity in the marketplace and try to front run them as well. So GS actually has many competitors.

While I don't necessarily know why GS or any firm should have to disclose their programmed trades, do they currently disclose the other? I know the NYSE monitors all that, but I am not sure for what reasons. I am still sure at the same time the NYSE will still disclose all institutional buy/sell/short/cover volume though.


There is much more involved of course than what I am typing here, but only about .00001% of the population knows much about this, and what they do is 99% misinformation.


If you want a good read that you prob. wont be able to comprehend lol here you go unless you are familiar with everything that I am saying. Although, you will most likely be able to get a real feel for what it is all about.



reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:31 AM by Frankidealist35
reply to post by GreenBicMan


It doesn't matter that a lot of trading goes this way. It's that wall-street is relying on the federal reserve, and, that the federal reserve is helping wall-street stay afloat. Goldman sachs is one of the federal reserve banks. Banks shouldn't be trading our money like that- then- for us to find out about it- and then close all of the information to the public just when we're getting interested in finances and stuff. It's not about how things works- it's about how corrupt the system really is. We can talk about how our system is and how it works all day long but it's about what this means, and, why they're doing it. These wall-street bankers just want to rely on secrecy so they won't be exposed by bloggers, whom, they fear so much. This move is highly suspicious. I know how the system works... for the most part... and I know that they use these analytical tools... don't take me for a fool... it's a matter of what they're doing and what this means for what we can know about their activities. It's awfully suspicious about them ending transparency for fears of bloggers. That's the main point here.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Frankidealist35]


reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 01:07 AM by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Frankidealist35


Well the opinion that they are ending in fear of bloggers is one opinion. I dont really think that, at the same time, they dont tell you what specific moves they do, just what % of volume.. so I dont think it really matters either way.

As far as GS doing this.. 100% of institutions do this, as well as even ultra small HF and retail players, so you have to look at the bigger picture here.

If you want to point a finger, look to the ETF's IMO. They are the dirtiest. There is so much liquidity out there that realisitically unless everyone was on the same page it so impossible to move a market like this (depending on what instrument you are trading)

As far as the GOV giving GS $$ - that is an entirely different story than the trading algorithms.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by GreenBicMan]


reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:29 PM by jefwane
This story has been out for a little while now. I came across it from Denninger's site and followed it back to the original zero hedge source.

Conspiracy to Hide Bubble Formation---Denninger

NYSE Halts Transparency----ZeroHedge


Somewhere on the Zero Hedge site, there is a NYSE response. I've seen parts of it quoted but not the whole response.

I'm of the opinion that more not less transparency in markets is better. Given the amount of suspected and documented shenanigans that have gone on since the leaked discount window rate cut in august '07 any move to obscure and not reveal should be viewed as troublesome.


reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:55 PM by RetinoidReceptor
Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Frankidealist35


Well the opinion that they are ending in fear of bloggers is one opinion. I dont really think that, at the same time, they dont tell you what specific moves they do, just what % of volume.. so I dont think it really matters either way.

As far as GS doing this.. 100% of institutions do this, as well as even ultra small HF and retail players, so you have to look at the bigger picture here.

If you want to point a finger, look to the ETF's IMO. They are the dirtiest. There is so much liquidity out there that realisitically unless everyone was on the same page it so impossible to move a market like this (depending on what instrument you are trading)

As far as the GOV giving GS $$ - that is an entirely different story than the trading algorithms.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by GreenBicMan]


You are right nobody can really MOVE the markets unless everyone was on the same page (unless you are the government and you have many tools and endless margin). But, what happens with these automated trades is that if there is a large amount of liquidity going into a few stocks, other algorithms can pick up on that and more money will flow into those stocks and then you have a bubble. So nobody really can manipulate a stock by propping up a price if nobody else is buying in, but if someone has a lot of money they can get other people to buy into the stock while they are quickly getting out...But it takes many people to do this, and I think this automated trading is used to find out when this is happening and can easily overshoot to the upside and downside in a much quicker way than ever before.

With that said, I guarantee you within the next 5 yrs, we are going to have a nasty crash due to algorithmic trading.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]
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