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Ahmadinejad says he wants public talks with Obama

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posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Otherwise, you won't ever be taken seriously here.

More ad hominem attacks? You're not the authority here. From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance.


my attitude gave billions to Israel.


Your collective attitude does.


Deniers of the holocaust are bonkers. Plain and simple.

The way you used holocaust was within Jewish context. So do you mean denial of the holocaust or denial of the Jewish holocaust? Ahmadinejad, like all of us, most likely challenges the ridiculous claims of the Jewish holocaust. That makes him rational, not a bonker.


If the POTUS were to bow to Ahmadinejads demands then Ahmadinejad would gain standing


Buddy, it was Obama extending invitation to Iran. Catch up on the news.


and power, and our POTUS would loose some of his. That's just a fact.


Something as traditional as a meeting could not make someone 'loose power', what the hell? It's called discussion, and most of the Americans support it - obviously its what Obama has touted, unconditional discussion. Are you afraid that they might actually see things eye to eye, on par with what Americans see? Oh, and by the way - something that is pending occurrence is not fact.




posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Reply to ElloAll


Originally posted by FlyersFan
You are the one in denial.
Perhaps you should start 'dealing with it'.
Otherwise, you won't ever be taken seriously here.



Originally posted by ElloAll
More ad hominem attacks? You're not the authority here. From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance.



On that remark I checked both yours and Flyerfan's profiles.

You joined 3 days ago, 24 posts, 75 points, no Applause.

Flyerfan joined over 5 years ago. 15,451 posts, 230,244 points, 160 Applause. One of the most recognized and respected contributors in this site's history.

From a quick look at your posts, it seems every single one is an attack on Israel and the US for their support.

You attack Flyerfan personally. He has shown a broad range of interests, positions, knowledge.

You have an agenda that is transparent. Your manner, manipulation of information, refusal to comply by the required courtesies and decorum are noted.

There are dozens of others with similar profiles who have joined in the last few weeks. They all share the your fixation and manner. Attack mode.

What does any thinking member of ATS discern from all this?

A campaign maybe?

98% of the people reading this will choose not to respond with a message. Don't think for a moment they don't see exactly what is going on.


M


[edit on 5-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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I'm new, what's new? I have an opinion, you have, FlyersFan has one. That is really all. You don't need to turn me into a creature because I don't necessarily agree with you. If I were an ancient member your comparison MIGHT have been relevant, but it isn't. I am a die-hard American -- and I criticise Israel where is due, I have never criticised America. So, what exactly are you rambling about? BTW - I have never attacked FlyersFan personally. I don't think anyone is stupid, there are a lot of replies on the threads I respond too -- a lot of them agree and disagree with me. Do you honestly think there won't be people on this forum who disagrees with you and your green paintings of Israel? Please. There's a word for people who look upon others in a strange manner because they do not agree with their views. I'll leave you to roam the dictionary. I have an agenda, you have one, so what? I'm man enough to agree to disagree, without trying to estrange others, which I feel you're trying to do to me, and which I can tell you now won't work.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by ElloAll]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


While I am not commenting on your post about the member above, I will say in my opinion flyers fans agenda has had a reoccuring theme, and the fact he has stood up for someone who gave no contribution to the thread is a clear case of his bias regarding the comment and its extreme geo-political/ religious inuendos that had not much in substance.

the funny thing is, I probably have more of an inclination to agree with him when it comes to issues regarding politics. I don't have much of a care for the Democrats currently in power. But it is in my opinion that when one shows an obvious bias based on their poltical/ religious views without objectivity, is when it should be pointed out. Just as I did with walkingwithfish's comment. And flyerfan took it upon himself to stand up for that. Not cool in my opinion. And against the 'deny ignorance' motto.

if he wants to debate my views on whether or not obama should meet with the leader of Iran, then that is fine....but sticking up for something of that nature seems below him.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by ElloAll
I have an agenda, you have one, so what? I'm man enough to agree to disagree, without trying to estrange others, which I feel you're trying to do to me, and which I can tell you now won't work.



Yore exact words in a reply to Flyerfan were:

"You're not the authority here. From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance."

My point was you cannot designate yourself as a spokesperson for ATS or judge of who can and cannot express their opinions.

I only have one agenda, to learn more than I know. I exchange information and insights on topics of interest. I do go out of my way to correct egregious misinformation. I point out that some people are not only misinformed, they are creating a pattern of disinformation dissemination.

Everything I say I consider to be true and is usually based on reliable information. If I displease some in the process that's unfortunate.

The truth can hurt.

If you're prepared to accept that there are things that conflict with your views, but which are demonstrably true - as we must some time - we have no problem.


M





[edit on 5-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by ElloAll
I have an agenda, you have one, so what? I'm man enough to agree to disagree, without trying to estrange others, which I feel you're trying to do to me, and which I can tell you now won't work.



Yore exact words in a reply to Flyerfan were:

"You're not the authority here. From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance."

My point was you cannot designate yourself as a spokesperson for ATS or judge of who can and cannot express their opinions.

I only have one agenda, to learn more than I know. I exchange information and insights on topics of interest. I do go out of my way to correct egregious misinformation. I point out that some people are not only misinformed, they are creating a pattern of disinformation dissemination.

Everything I say I consider to be true and is usually based on reliable information. If I displease some in the process that's unfortunate.

The truth can hurt.

If you're prepared to accept that there are things that conflict with your views, but which are demonstrably true - as we must some time - we have no problem.


M





[edit on 5-7-2009 by mmiichael]


This is what he said:

Otherwise, you won't ever be taken seriously here.


This is what I replied:

More ad hominem attacks? You're not the authority here. From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance.


Was my response not equally contriving as his? Albeit, it was less. Are there any prejudices to why you're particular condemning me, and not him, when my response was only a reflection of his comment? Honestly, that's all it was. I was telling him not to act an authority, in which you told me not to act as an authority. I don't -- and haven't, I only reflected his comment? I think you're pointing your gun at the wrong person, sir. He made the comment. I responded. The original act of authority came from him, in which I reminded him that he was just as a standard member as am I. Which is the truth, is it not?

[edit on 5-7-2009 by ElloAll]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by ElloAll
I think you're pointing your gun at the wrong person, sir. He made the comment. I responded. The original act of authority came from him, in which I reminded him that he was just as a standard member as am I. Which is the truth, is it not?



Truth is more than just facts. People often arrange unrelated facts as a progression to lead to something that is not always the truth.

There's a larger context to this matter which I don't think is appropropriate to this discussion. And let's not bore our audience.

The French have a saying "Qui s'excuse, s'accuse."


M



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
the fact he has stood up for someone who gave no contribution to the thread is a clear case of his bias

1 - I'm a girl.

2 - You completely trashed someone who gave a valid opinion and, even though you deny it, gave a valid contribution to the discussion.

3 - I stood up for that person because HE WAS RIGHT. I posted the reasons he was right. You don't like it. That's your problem.

4 - Biased or not - my facts are correct.

5 - Walkswithfish provided a valid contribution - even if you dont' like it.


Originally posted by open_eyeballs
the man has been more pro zionist and pro christian and more christian-like in his presidency thus far than the last 3 presidents combined.

Oh lord .. I'm just rolling with laughter on that one

NONE of the presidents of recent history have been christ-like.
Not Obama. Not Bush43. Not Clinton. Not Bush41.


I could even careless more what your perception of his religion is.

This is a chat site. You are going to hear it. Deal with it.


Originally posted by open_eyeballs
since you are the political science major,

PSYCHOLOGY degree. Political Science is one of many 'other' courses available to take while majoring in Psychology.


what are Ahmadinejads intentions?

He's a meglomaniac with regional domination issues who took notes on how Hitler found a scapegoat in the Jews and is using the same technique only this time he's using Westerners as his scapegoat.


Funny how the man spoke about nothing but peace when he came to American universities

Funny how the man said that Iran doesn't have a 'homosexual problem' (because they pubically hang homosexuals). Yeah .. real peaceful dude.


Originally posted by ElloAll
From my short time here I've seen 90% of ATS disagree with and challenge your views. So, I think you should zip it on that stance.

Lie much? As elloall you have been here two days. As someone else you were here longer than that. It's VERY obvious that this is not your first time at ATS. Because of your two day obsession with me, it's also pretty darn obvious that I nailed your backend in your previous incarnation. You are transparent and a liar. 90% of ATS disagrees with me? Bull.


So do you mean denial of the holocaust or denial of the Jewish holocaust? Ahmadinejad, like all of us, most likely challenges the ridiculous claims of the Jewish holocaust.

ALL OF US are holocaust deniers?



Originally posted by mmiichael
He has shown a broad range of interests, positions, knowledge.

Thanks. psssssssst ... btw ... I'm a girl.


reply to post by ElloAll
 

All this passive/aggressive posting is impossible to follow.


[edit on 7/5/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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Um nope, calculate again.





More ad hominem attacks without a staunch of evidence?





More ad hominem attacks without a staunch of evidence?





More ad hominem attacks without a staunch of evidence?





That's a blatant personal attack, against T&C. I hope you don't preach the T&C anymore when you're here breaking it. But I won't report you though, I will leave this post here so the world can see, in case you decide to follow it one day. One day you alleged follow the rules and the next day you don't. This is how you "nail" people's "backends"?





Answer the question please, before asking another question. It's called trying to change the subject. Your tactics are dirty, just like the people you defend.





I think you lost any right to complain about the T&C, now because I will actually follow the rules I won't call you a hypocrite... but...yeah.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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HE WAS RIGHT.

My exact point. He didnt even proclaim a side or opinion..there is no right or wrong with his post. All he did was make a suggestion that stated all of his political and religious views through inuendo. And religious zealots such as yourself come along and take offense when someone calls him out on it. Get off your high horse.



my facts are correct.


...you have not stated any!
..alls you have done is take feeble attempts at proclaiming his view valid...




Oh lord .. I'm just rolling with laughter on that one
NONE of the presidents of recent history have been christ-like.
Not Obama. Not Bush43. Not Clinton. Not Bush41.


I said...

more
than the last 3 combined, and honestly I should have clarified, with the exception of Bush 41....



This is a chat site. You are going to hear it. Deal with it.


this is me dealing with it..:


I could even careless more what your perception of his religion is.


..Ive adressed the rest of your babel already...

good day!



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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I'd say anyone following this has a pretty clear picture of what's happening.

In the true spirit of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, there are convoluted explanations of 'mistranslations.'

When we observe predictable behaviour patterns it becomes easy to infer actual intent.

Read between the lines.


M

[edit on 5-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
The US supplies foreign aid to many Muslim countries, including Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, etc. Far in excess of the support to Israel for it's defense.


Everything I say I consider to be true and is usually based on reliable information. If I displease some in the process that's unfortunate.



Can you produce some "reliable information" as to why you consider your quote above to be true? Israel has always been the major beneficiary to US aid. They not only receive the most, by far, they alone get that money with very little restrictions on how they may spend it. Better check those reliable sources of yours, don't you think?

U.S. Military Aid to Israel




The United States and Israel signed a Memorandum of Understanding in August 2007 committing the U.S. to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The only stipulation imposed on Israel’s use of this cash gift is that it spend 74 per cent to purchase U.S. military goods and services.

The first grant under this agreement was made in October 2008, for FY2009, in the amount of $2.55 billion. To bring the total 10-year amount to $30 billion, amounts in future years will gradually increase until an annual level of $3.1 billion is reached in FY2013. This will continue through FY2018.

Israel is by far the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Since 1949, the United States has provided Israel with $101 billion in total aid, of which $53 billion has been military aid. For the last 20-plus years, Israel has received an average of $3 billion annually in grant aid;, until now the grant has been a mix of economic and military aid.

Israel receives its aid under vastly more favorable terms than any other recipient. Egypt, for instance, receives $2 billion a year in economic aid, but this is a loan and must be repaid. Saudi Arabia also has U.S. military equipment in its arsenal, but it buys and pays for this equipment and is not given it, as Israel is.

www.counterpunch.org...




Ahmedinejad's insecurity on the world stage and utter lack of diplomacy has had a tremendous effect on world politics since he came in.



Are you high, or just plain delusional? Ahmedinejad has repeatedly pleaded diplomatically to freely exercise their right to nuclear energy technology. Never once has he claimed Iran wanted this technology for anything other than peaceful usage. He has said this over and over, yet dullards like you still fail to even mention the possibility? Denial, perhaps?




If you're prepared to accept that there are things that conflict with your views, but which are demonstrably true - as we must some time - we have no problem.


Are you prepared to accept truth, or is it only those opposing you that are burdened? Are you willing to support the US in yet another war effort without any shred of evidence to support your accusations? If the Iranian regime can be proven guilty of even one crime, don't you think they would be held accountable for it? Should it not be brought before the UN, or the World Court, to be resolved according to the international laws in place for such things?




Truth is more than just facts. People often arrange unrelated facts as a progression to lead to something that is not always the truth.


I suggest you take your own advice, friend. Never has it rang truer than it does for you right now. Try looking at the world from a righteous viewpoint? Set aside any baseless loyalties and criticize everyone accordingly. The truth is easy to see, but you first must commit to accepting only truth.

Try to imagine, if you can, that Iran is the righteous nation and every negative claim said of them were untrue. That they really do desire nuclear energy alone and would never use it destructively. That they only wish for peace and prosperity for everyone. Now imagine, if you can, that Israel and the US are in fact the bad apples and all their intentions are masked with lies. That what they want is control of the Middle East and everything righteous you believe true of them is only a cloak to shield their true agenda. That they are the actual terrorists disrupting peace on Earth and they are willing to go to any destructive lengths to carry out their plan.

When you are capable of understanding this possibility, only then can you find the truth. When you begin by thinking nothing like this can even enter the equation, you have missed it already. It has nothing to do with supporting Iran or hating Israel, it's about being honest with yourself no matter the consequences. The only true loyalty is that of the truth itself. Starting there is the only way to find it.

Peace.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by Zerbst
Try to imagine, if you can, that Iran is the righteous nation and every negative claim said of them were untrue. That they really do desire nuclear energy alone and would never use it destructively. That they only wish for peace and prosperity for everyone. Now imagine, if you can, that Israel and the US are in fact the bad apples and all their intentions are masked with lies. That what they want is control of the Middle East and everything righteous you believe true of them is only a cloak to shield their true agenda. That they are the actual terrorists disrupting peace on Earth and they are willing to go to any destructive lengths to carry out their plan.

When you are capable of understanding this possibility, only then can you find the truth. When you begin by thinking nothing like this can even enter the equation, you have missed it already. It has nothing to do with supporting Iran or hating Israel, it's about being honest with yourself no matter the consequences. The only true loyalty is that of the truth itself. Starting there is the only way to find it.



I try to imagine a lot of things. But some don't gel with hard realities.

I don't know Iran well enough first hand, my short time there being unrepresentative. So I rely most on the opinions of dozens of people I know who visit here or have emigrated from Iran.

Their opinions of today's Iran are uniform. Strangling corruption, domestic malaise, distrust of the Mullah regime, fear of cataclysmic decisions that will cause a new war, etc.

My opinion and that of others - great people, rotten leadership.

Ahmadinejad, to his credit, has been fighting an ongoing battle against the abuse of power of the Ayatollah class. Rafsanjani is considered the worst abuser of privilege.

Iran has the option of seeking an understanding with Israel. The two countries were mutually supportive for many years. Instead Iran has chosen a rhetoric of antagonism and fueled proxy wars with Israel. A lot of this is about the ultimate Sunni vs Shiite competition on the region. Much has to do with the deflection of responsibility learned from Europe. Tell the people they have no money because of the Jews. Why else would Iran sponsor a Holocaust forum? Just ugly public opinion manipulation.

I'm sorry, lip service to peace, protestations of innocence, claims of victimhood, etc does not cut it for me.

When Iran is applying it's oil wealth to upgrading it's deteriorating infrastructure, creating new job creating industries, opening up it's education system to modern technology, innovation, humanitarian values, etc - I will say they want peace and prosperity for the country.

I judge people by what they do, not what they say in their speeches.


Mike



[edit on 6-7-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by Scooby Doo
 


Brilliant - Obama and the liars will never do it though - it shows Iran is not afraid of openness, but I can guarantee that the US only wants to keep everything secret.

If Obama does it he knows he will be exposed for a liar, a warmonger and a fool.

EDIT# I should add something regarding all the religious crap thats been associated here. Obama was definitely raised as a Muslim - he probably still is. Due the anti-Muslim sentiment that has been created as a vehicle of propaganda in the MSM, being a Muslim was definitely going to prevent him from being elected - so he hid the fact.

Personally - I don't care what religion he is, they are all disgusting. It makes no difference - he is just going to do what he is told. He was selected because he can appeal to the Arab nations based on his secret faith.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Amagnon]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by open_eyeballs
And religious zealots such as yourself

OMG that's beyond insane.


you have not stated any!

Middle of page 2. You know ... the post with three stars. Ya'll really should read the information that is posted instead of using this forum as your own soapbox.


Originally posted by ElloAll
That's a blatant personal attack, against T&C.

No, it's the truth. You are a liar. 90% of people disagree with me? Bull.
And as for your holocaust denials .... pathetic.

Take a field trip to the Holocaust Museum and get educated. :shk:

Holocaust Museum
Obama rebukes holocaust deniers


Obviously the trolls have deflected from the topic - Ahmadinijad and Obama. I can't wait for the end of summer for school to be back in session so ATS can clear out .



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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You are a liar.


Calling someone a liar is a blatant T&C breach, as its an ad hominem attack. What, you loose memory of the rules when your argument is being pounded into the ground and you have to resort to insults? I'm not surprised.


And as for your holocaust denials


I never denied the holocaust. You just want to make the holocaust about the Jews, and I, like millions of others, don't buy that sh*t at all. Deal with it.


Obviously the trolls have deflected from the topic


Takes one to know one, eh? You're the one talking about Holocaust - last I remembered you're the one who started talking about it, and all type of other shi*t like Ahmadinijad being a terrorist and all type of garbage. Paleeze.
Because I don't want to break the rules I won't call you a hypocrite...but yeah.

You really should stop talking about the T&C, because most people believe you should practice what you preach.


[edit on 6-7-2009 by ElloAll]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by ElloAll
 


If you claim that 90% of an entire website membership roster disagrees with someone you had better have something to back up your ridiculous and juvenile claim.

ATS currently has 172,000 plus members. 90% is a bold claim. You are stating that 155,000 plus members disagree with FF. Wow!

Your statement is untrue. Therefore, you are not telling the truth. You are misleading with false information. You are telling falsehoods. You are weaving tales. Let's just call it a lie. People that lie are liars.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by jibeho]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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As for Ameninajad... He is trying to lure Obama into an ambush and I hope that Obama falls for it. These stall tactics are getting predictable and we should not be negotiating with terrorists.

The people of Iran have spoken and have unfortunately given up the fight apparently. It is a sad time for the good citizens of Iran that have to live under the thumb of this blood thirsty regime.

Amenindajead is just a talking head for the mullah. He has no real power. So, two puppets fighting for control of the microphone and the podium should be interesting. I just hope that the puppet masters can keep up with the dueling egos without get their strings tangled.

No teleprompters please.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho
As for Ameninajad... He is trying to lure Obama into an ambush and I hope that Obama falls for it. These stall tactics are getting predictable and we should not be negotiating with terrorists.

The people of Iran have spoken and have unfortunately given up the fight apparently. It is a sad time for the good citizens of Iran that have to live under the thumb of this blood thirsty regime.

Amenindajead is just a talking head for the mullah. He has no real power. So, two puppets fighting for control of the microphone and the podium should be interesting. I just hope that the puppet masters can keep up with the dueling egos without get their strings tangled.

No teleprompters please.



He is trying to lure Obama into an ambush


Obama originally extended invitation to Iran, FYI.


we should not be negotiating with terrorists.


And we're not, I mean yeah there's the Zionists...


Your statement is untrue.


I say its 90%, and you're guessing not 90%. And when I said 90% - I said 'threads' of which 'FF' participates. You can review it yourself. I didn't mean the whole of ATS, but it probably would be too. You haven't exactly proven that my statement is 'untrue', you haven't exactly asked those members. So, cool down your ego. and don't fall on the edge of ad hominem attacks. If I 'lied' you did too, so you are in no position to break the rules because you THINK my figures don't add up, because that's no better than me THINKING my figures do, its just that I've done that without having to personally attack you, as you did me. I heard JDL members get angry when they're argument is destroyed.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by ElloAll]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by ElloAll
 


All you do is quote and place little comments. Do you have anything interesting to say?

Snooze!!

[edit on 6-7-2009 by jibeho]



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