Absolute truth, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 05:24 PM by TheMythLives
reply to post by novacs4me





The theme is always that the life of the person being rescued is worth as much as my own.


I suppose, however, sinse there are different views. This opinion of yours is not truth. It is your perception of something. I agree with you and I respect your opinion, but they are not "truths". They are your perception and ones perception translates into theory.

Truth is a tricky word. But most of the time its nothing more than someones opinion, that the majority agree with.

Again, I agree with you and your OP. But they are not truth's, just opinions

[edit on Jul 4th 2009 by TheMythLives]


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 05:32 PM by novacs4me
reply to post by TheMythLives

Thank you for your reply! I guess my question to you would be, is it only an opinion that it is right to sacrifice yourself for a friend or in the line of duty, or is it truly the right thing to do? Does it become simply a personal opinion? If one is faced with a life or death situation, can a person choose simply to walk away, and then live with themselves?



reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 05:46 PM by rogerstigers
reply to post by novacs4me



novac, they can, and they do. Just because you feel that is is noble and right to help someone who is in danger does not mean that everyone else shares your opinion. I know of a gal who was with her mom while her mom was in a medical crisis. The lady interfered with the medical treatment because she was hungry. In her mind she wasn't evil, she just didn't think that her mom's health was all that important.

Remember, the people who history remembers as bad never considered themselves evil. In fact many of them probably considered themselves as noble warriors for a grand cause. It's all a matter of perspective.

I for one do not believe in absolute morality. There is no such thing.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 05:52 PM by TheMythLives
reply to post by novacs4me





If one is faced with a life or death situation, can a person choose simply to walk away, and then live with themselves?


Yes. A person can walk away and live with themselves. I personally couldn't. I would do everything to save lives. But their are many that would simply walk away and say that it is not their problem.

I think it is a personal opinion. I am also senidng you a u2u. So be sure to check your inbox.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 05:52 PM by rogerstigers
reply to post by silent thunder



Oh, you are so getting a star for that one.. *smirk*

Yeah, was it Socrates who said "the only thing I know is that I know nothing?"



reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 06:11 PM by novacs4me
Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to
post by novacs4me



In her mind she wasn't evil, she just didn't think that her mom's health was all that important.

Remember, the people who history remembers as bad never considered themselves evil. In fact many of them probably considered themselves as noble warriors for a grand cause. It's all a matter of perspective.



Thank you for joining the discussion! I can't help but think that you provide this example, because it disturbed you. And I agree with you, that many things have been done in history that were not considered evil by the person or persons who did them. But is it not possible that they were just rationalizing their behavior, which truly WAS wrong, and not merely wrong in the opinion of the majority?


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 06:15 PM by rogerstigers
reply to post by novacs4me



Did it disturb me? Not really. The woman got her treatment and was better. The child was taken in for observation as a possible psych risk. Problem solved.

Like I said, I don't believe in absolutes. There is no absolute right and wrong or good and evil. I have spent a lot of time over the years thinking on this and have never found an act done by humans that could not be explained as equally heroic or monstrous depending on your point of view.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 06:43 PM by rogerstigers
reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest



LOL.. you know just a few minutes before you posted this, I was talking to my friend about this and he said *exactly* what you said. I just showed it to him and he said, "I hate it when people steal my material! That's F#%ked up!"

Just thought you might get a kick out of that. Great minds and all that. *smirk*


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 06:56 PM by rogerstigers
reply to post by novacs4me



I cannot tell you what I would do in that scenario. I have never been in that scenario or anything like it. I can only postulate on the motivations of the fire fighters running up those stairs. Each one would have a differant motivation.

Firefighter A may have decided to become a fire fighter because he lost a loved one to a fire as a kid. He never wanted anyone to go through that pain, so he made a career choice. Now in his career, after saving a few lives, he feels that maybe he can actually make a differance, even if his life is at stake. So he dutifully runs up those stairs, hoping to save some lives. It's not like he knew the tower would fall. He was going there to put out a severe fire and save lives

Firefighter B perhaps has a family history of fire fighting. He took on the family business, so to speak. His motivation to run up those stairs is that it is his job, it's what he has trained for, and to do anything else would be cowardly and a dissapointment to his family.

Firefighter C has a wife and two kids to feed. For all he knows this is just a fire. Yeah, sure planes crashed into the building, whatever, he doens't care about that, just doing his job and getting the fire out. Just make it through today and tomorrow is his day off. Just get the fire out and see his wife again.

You see how differant motvations can have the same effect in a particular situation. One was truely selfless, the other was acting on ego, and the final one was just living life one moment at a time and hoping to get back to his wife.

/* The characters in this post are purely fictional and are in no way mean to represent real persons living or dead. */


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:07 PM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by rogerstigers



tell your friend sorry, but he should have made one of those hats that prevent aliens from stealing your thoughts (in reference to a thread from earlier)
if aliens cant steal your thoughts with it, how can i? :p

and to answer the OP, im not sure why they would go up the stairs in the WTC. everyone is motivated by something different. maybe they feel that doing so helped make the world suck a tiny bit less. maybe they had a sense of duty, that it was their job and the risk came with the territory. maybe they didnt even think about the risk to themselves and instead thought "oh my god, there are people trapped in there." and went to save them.

for me i think i would feel the last thing mixed with not being able to sleep at night knowing i let people burn or get crushed to death while i sat by.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:07 PM by novacs4me
reply to post by rogerstigers

I like your three guys, because all of them are doing the RIGHT thing, regardless of their motivation. What you and I don't seem to agree on is whether or not what they did was right. In a world without right or wrong, you could (personally) reasonably expect that if you were sitting injured on the 30th floor no one really would be wrong to leave you there. Relatively speaking, wouldn't it be better for the firefighter to lose his job rather than die trying to save you?


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:15 PM by novacs4me
reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest

Thank you! I can tell you how I know that what you have said you would do is ABSOLUTELY right. If people get a lump in their throat when they hear that you WOULD go up, regardless of the risks, then it IS right. People know right from wrong. Most would rather pretend they didn't.
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