The IRS is a privately owned company based out of Puerto Rico

Thanks for posting this, now I can show the people at work who called me nuts! I was telling some people at work about this about a month ago and they told me to stop reading this site and that I was just nuts. I said ok fine dont believe me, but dont discount something you have never even read about! Great post! S&F!

Couldn't the People of the United States sew the federal government for creating all these czars who will work totally on their own answering only to the dictator..er I mean president?

is there any attorneys here that can answer this?

I didn't know this. thanks for the post, its why I come here. Looking forward to changes.

reply to post by mblahnikluver
love your avatar...so 80's! cute

reply to post by JulieMills


It's not only outside America but it could be illegal also, have you seen the following you tube video's they are very interesting.

www.youtube.com...

The video goes into why paying income tax in the US is illegal.
[edit on 5-7-2009 by keldas]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by keldas]

reply to post by keldas
good video. thanks.

it's my understanding that income tax was basically invented to pay for the civil war. i believe it was called thwe internal revenue act of 1862. my belief is that they've been running with this under color of law ever sinse.

reply to post by keldas


Why it's unconstitutional is very simple, the Government cannot garnish your wages. Unless ordered by court.

For the most part, many of us see 30-40% of our incomes vanish before we even get a chance to see it. So instead of paying taxes at the end of the year (sadly some of us still have to) the Gov has already fleeced your wallets and accounts..

The level of taxation in the Western Nations is that which has never been seen before.. It truly is a slaves tax.

First I would like to state I file income taxes on a regular basis...about once every ten years give or take a year...When the IRS notices you might have been very busy and you overlooked it for a decade or so it loves to give you a call!

Hey it's always nice to talk to people, and it's usually some nice woman or man calling from somewhere asking if you have heard of something called the IRS...well yeah, hasn't everyone?

Then that nice person after establishing who they work for usually says...we have been trying to contact you...

Well, hey you got me now; speak your mind, what's up...

They then politely inquire as to why you haven't thought of them in such a long time, if by chance you didn't know that you were supposed to file a Federal Income Tax form...

This is when I begin to share my confusion with them on the subject, regarding the Constitution and the law, and the very questionable nature of it all, and I suspect that they (not the caller, but the people they work for) might be up to something untoward, you know like those people who call you and tell you congratulations you have won a free vacation, but only want to steal you money.

The nice caller always politely assures me this is not the case. That it's perfectly legitimate and they have a right to do it, and I really should better consider them when scheduling out my decades.

I tell them I still don't think it's a good idea, or right, but if they want me to under duress fill out ten years of forms (that's what they always request) then I do.

I do by asking them to send me their information as to how much money they think I made each year because...hey guess what, I am not counting!

I have better things to do, so as soon as you can tell me what I made send it on with the forms and I will fill them out.

This takes them some time, but hey, it's been in the works for a decade or more, so what's another three or four months while they try to figure it all out.

I dutifully fill out the forms then with the income information they sent me, figuring at this point, since they are so serious and all it's a good idea to humor them.

I sign the forms Under Duress Against My Better Judgment JACK MEOFF (I kid you not).

This does not bother them because computers read this form and only look for numbers. The Computer never takes my sense of humor seriously.

Then a few months later I get a bill in the mail, it's usually something outrageous like the foreign debt of the nation of Indonesia...

Can't help but laugh when you think, wow, they actually think I have money like that...don't I wish!

My computer of course has a sense of humor. This is where I think my computer beats theirs every time!

Of course since I don't have that kind of money, never did, and probably never will, I just ignore this silly part, and wait for them to take the next step.

This might take another year or two, the IRS they are very busy!

So am I, making sure I spend every penny I can get my hands on so ha, ha! They can't have it.

The next step is the LEVY...

Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good...it's just like Led Zeppelin sings when the Levee breaks.

Their computer obviously does not listen to or enjoy music which I think gives mine another clear advantage because mine does...and the song clearly says the Levee was meant to be broken.

This is when I turn to the Tax Payer Advocate and fill out the 9-1-1 Form.

That's what it's called and titled, the 9-1-1 Form appeal to the Tax Payer's Advocate...

I fill that out and walk into my local Internal Revenue Office...and let me tell you folks, if these guys are making money they sure are tight with it, what a dump! No wood parquet floors, crystal chandeliers, French antique furniture or artwork to be seen here!

They kind of go for that early American slaughter house look with the taped corals and number system...

So right away I am saying, wow, how would you like to work in a place like this your whole life?

I am feeling real sorry for the people that work there now, and well it's a good idea to feel sorry for them when you walk up and drop a 9-1-1 Form on the counter...

Panic, I kid you not, Panic is evident right away...they look around the crowded room, down at the form and say...oh no, you have a problem???

They say it in a way like wow no one has problems, this really is an emergency!

They don't want to stamp and file that form; they really don't want to, they really don't want you appealing to the Tax Payer Advocate that way...

It scares them, and the first thing they try to do is 'help' you with your problem...

They do this by saying; I can probably help you with it, what year's taxes are in question.

I always smile and say "Oh just this Decade here" and unveil my copies of ten years of tax forms and related documents.

I mention that they were requested for and filed all at once and then they take another look around the room and down at the counter cursing their luck that they were the one available when your number came up and say...

You know, this probably isn't the best place to discuss your 'problem'

Well duh! You are the guys with this screwy setup not me...lead the way Geronimo

So then we head off in some elevator up a couple of floors to a set of such sparsely and tackily decorated offices that suicide would be the only option if you couldn't quit.

Yes, I feel very sorry for them.

Now this is when the moment of truth arrives...

Show me something in writing that says I have a legal obligation as a natural born human being born in this country to pay the IRS this money...

He of course can't and I ask them why not, this is the IRS, you are an IRS Employee, this is an IRS Office, someone has got to explain it and show it to me, and after all, it's your responsibility.

So then this employee will call a supervisor in, to repeat the same spiel.

I of course am still not impressed just because he has a slightly bigger really cheaply furnished office...

Show me in writing exactly where and how and why in the form of a law in print in black and white why I have to pay Taxes when the Constitution says I don't unless of time of war.

(Try not to visit them on a year when there is a war!) I know what you are thinking but these aren’t legal wars declared by Congress!

He of course can't either...then I the Person, who legally is an Actor Wearing a Mask and a Straw Man feign outrage and indignation...what kind of government is this, what kind of operation are you running, you mean to tell me the main IRS Office in my city which is a Major City can't even do the courtesy to the people of the nation who visit it, to have on hand the actual laws that require them to, and pay money that the Constitution doesn't say I have to pay except of time in War...show me the Law or explain to me why you can't.

This is when the Supervisor is glad he is a Supervisor and can throw me back on the counter employee and will say, sit him back down in your office and call New Jersey and see how they want to handle it...

Some guy then in some regional office in New Jersey will say the same thing as the guys in my city, but claim to have the actual law I demand seeing...

Great I say fax it over...

It's too big, takes too much time, the fax machine is out of toner, a solar storm has fried the lines yadda daddee da they say...

Not buying it without seeing the Law in writing that clearly states it, no problem I will just file the 9-11 Form and let the Tax Payer Advocate handle it since you guys can't even give basic service to the citizen in your own offices...

This then leads to a call to the Texas Regional Office, it's like straightening out your cell phone bill, they switch you around a lot and of course every new person has to be brought up to speed. They try to wear you down this way and get you to act rude or loose your temper.

No problem my computer has a sense of humor!

Plus its fun watching grown people who normally feel so empowered act like stuttering and embarrassed idiots.

OK maybe I don't feel that sorry for them, but I try to identify...

The call to Texas then leads to a call to Maryland...

Same story different call, same result...

I then offer to at my own time and expense immediately go to the nearest airport and board a plane to any city in the United States that has an Office with a Copy of this Law...I want to, and will happily do it right now, where do I go...

And the sound of silence...

Broken eventually by, can I speak to the agent again with you...?

Followed by...are you sure he has a 9-1-1 Form...yes, it's right here in front of me...he has it completely filled out and it says what he has been saying on the phone...yes I am looking right at it...

Ok, alright, under whose authority, what's the I.D. number, alright thanks...

Well...you must be the luckiest man alive my friend the poor agent says after this about six hour ordeal, they have authorized me to release the Levy Against you immediately, lets go back downstairs and fill out the form.

Now if they were stumbling and worried when you walked in the door with your 9-1-1 form, they are really stumbling and worried now...as the 20 year odd some veteran first hunts for a hand written Release of Levy form and then confesses in 20 years they have never filled one out, and you are either the luckiest man on earth, or that both he and you are going to go to jail for a very long time.

They are very nervous filling out the form, and after they check it real carefully, to make sure their butt is covered they politely hand it your way and suggest it would be really great if you would rip up your 9-1-1 form and let them throw it in the trash where litter belongs in exchange for their Release of Levy Form.

Great guys, pack a lunch, plan on spending the day!


[edit on 6/7/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


YES!! OMFG I can not say how much your story inspires me!! Star for you friend and let me just say please aspect the clap * stands and claps* wow just wow would shake your hand if it were not for this pesky space and time thingy.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by SPC_D]

It's amazing to see just how many people actually believe that paying INCOME tax and the IRS are legal. Especially surprising is that they are members of ATS also, considering the moto is DENY IGNORANCE! Wow.

I can tell you first hand that you don't have to pay taxes... haven't done it and never will. You do have to file a return. That is all that is required. Now, if i was a non-CITIZEN or a Corporation then I would have to have taxable income. I am neither, and I have no "Taxable" Income. YOU tell the IRS you have taxable income when you file your 1040 and then you sign it saying they have the right to tax you. I show them I made non-taxable money but not income... and I sign it telling them they can't tax me. Big Difference! It's not the IRS's fault that you don't know how to file your return.

Educate yourself. Start by watching Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism and then look up some Patriot Sites on the net. Learn how to drop your corporate name JOHN DOE and become a US CITIZEN again. Anyone who says that there is a law saying a Citizen must pay Income Tax is either very uneducated or lying to you (or themselves). These are the same people that will tell you that you have to have a Drivers License to drive a private vehicle or a permit to carry a gun. Yeah, right!!

One thing I don't understand, if IRS is a Corporation and doesn't have the authority to collect Taxes then I guess the President and the congress must be part of the conspiracy to pay Taxes. Or is that that they are paying taxes on profits and not on their labor. Which one is it. I read a lot about it. Some claim that they faught against the IRS and don't pay any Taxes etc. etc.

reply to post by JulieMills


Most people don't realize that the IRS was setup to collect taxes on the sales of RUM from the Carribean Islands. It got more teeth when it became the enforcement arm of the Federal Reserve Bank. Like the Federal Reserve, the IRS is a private corporation.

Its not news to find this out. There just are not enough folks who care about it enough to do something about it, particularly when there is so much voter apathy and lack of response from the voters in general.

ok, this issue confuses me. no matter i think the i.r.s. is criminal in thier actions, but the law part i can't understand. what is this then?


26 C.F.R. § 601.101 Introduction.
Title 26 - Internal Revenue


Title 26: Internal Revenue
PART 601—STATEMENT OF PROCEDURAL RULES
Subpart A—General Procedural Rules

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§ 601.101 Introduction.

(a) General. The Internal Revenue Service is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury under the immediate direction of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner has general superintendence of the assessment and collection of all taxes imposed by any law providing internal revenue. The Internal Revenue Service is the agency by which these functions are performed. Within an internal revenue district the internal revenue laws are administered by a district director of internal revenue. The Director, Foreign Operations District, administers the internal revenue laws applicable to taxpayers residing or doing business abroad, foreign taxpayers deriving income from sources within the United States, and taxpayers who are required to withhold tax on certain payments to nonresident aliens and foreign corporations, provided the books and records of those taxpayers are located outside the United States. For purposes of these procedural rules any reference to a district director or a district office includes the Director, Foreign Operations District, or the District Office, Foreign Operations District, if appropriate. Generally, the procedural rules of the Service are based on the Internal Revenue Code of 1939 and the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, and the procedural rules in this part apply to the taxes imposed by both Codes except to the extent specifically stated or where the procedure under one Code is incompatible with the procedure under the other Code. Reference to sections of the Code are references to the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, unless otherwise expressly indicated.

(b) Scope. This part sets forth the procedural rules of the Internal Revenue Service respecting all taxes administered by the Service, and supersedes the previously published statement (26 CFR (1949 ed., Part 300-End) Parts 600 and 601) with respect to such procedural rules. Subpart A provides a descriptive statement of the general course and method by which the Service's functions are channeled and determined, insofar as such functions relate generally to the assessment, collection, and enforcement of internal revenue taxes. Certain provisions special to particular taxes are separately described in Subpart D of this part. Conference and practice requirements of the Internal Revenue Service are contained in Subpart E of this part. Specific matters not generally involved in the assessment, collection, and enforcement functions are separately described in Subpart B of this part. A description of the rule making functions of the Department of the Treasury with respect to internal revenue tax matters is contained in Subpart F of this part. Subpart G of this part relates to matters of official record in the Internal Revenue Service and the extent to which records and documents are subject to publication or open to public inspection. This part does not contain a detailed discussion of the substantive provisions pertaining to any particular tax or the procedures relating thereto, and for such information it is necessary that reference be made to the applicable provisions of law and the regulations promulgated thereunder. The regulations relating to the taxes administered by the Service are contained in Title 26 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

[38 FR 4955, Feb. 23, 1973 and 41 FR 20880, May 21, 1976, as amended at 45 FR 7251, Feb. 1, 1980; 49 FR 36498, Sept. 18, 1984; T.D. 8685, 61 FR 58008, Nov. 12, 1996]

[edit on 6-7-2009 by rubbertramp]

[edit on 6-7-2009 by rubbertramp]

A friend and co-worker of mine fought for two years to have our employer stop taking federal taxes out of his paycheck. I won't go into details, but basically he got a lawyer and "proved" that he was not required to pay Federal Income Taxes based pretty much on some of the information in this thread.

After two years, and $15K, he "won". Our employer stopped removing Federal Taxes from his wages and he was ecstatic.

Now fast forward about 8 years. The IRS seized his home (via lein), his wages are garnished excessively, he owned his own landscaping business on the side, well, I guess I should say he USED to own his own business....that's gone too.

Long story really short -- he tried fighting it again, and again, owes another $15 - 18K to another lawyer, and basically has no more money to keep fighting.

Coincidentally, a year after the IRS caught up with him, his daughter lost her grant money for college, he can't get a loan from anyone, etc. etc.

He still says he's right. I say that sometimes the fight just isn't worth it.

His whole life -- he has 5 kids -- has changed. He's not going to be able to retire anytime soon -- I forget the exact amount, but he owes the IRS hundreds of thousands of dollars. The majority of which are penalty and fees for having to go after him.

Originally posted by nh_ee

The Internal Revenue Service is a corporation, not a company, that was incorporated in the state of Delaware on July 12, 1933.

If you research the Delaware Secretary of State Website records.

INTERNAL REVENUE TAX AND AUDIT SERVICE (IRS)
For Profit General Delaware Corporation
Incorporation Date 7/12/33
File No. 0325720

This is also the legal nature of the scam in that due to the inherent nature of these corporations, when it comes to law, Common or Constitutional Law is nullified. This being due to the fact that Constitutional Rights do not apply in an equity court, a court of maritime law that MUST display a gold fringed flag applies ONLY. Contract law supersedes individual AND Constitutional Rights. In other words, whenever you sign anything, such as when you registered to vote, or signed your 1040 form, or even an application for a bank account or credit card at a Federal Reserve Bank, you are signing away your constitutional rights.

Independence Day....Ha !

>> This is a bit more accurate than the original post.

In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to find many government agencies that weren't for-profit businesses. Like the CIA and FBI.

I can't say what this means exactly. But it would be nice if our government actually told us, who the board of directors and the holding company were that OWNS our fricken' government.

The "taxation" is not the biggest deal here; that money DOES go to pay for things that we use. The robber barons, are always trying to reduce taxes, so that they can drive the debt bubble.

Unless we talk about cutting military and the industrial prison systems -- then I don't want to talk about the issue -- because the BIG scam, is NOT paying for things. You end up paying more.


>> And good luck trying to go into court saying it is "Unconstitutional." Yes, this was never ratified -- but it's the Golden Rule, and the courts are going to skewer you, it will never be heard by the Supreme Court -- and they'd side with business anyway.

There is a whole laundry list of justice we need to get settled before we can tackle this scam.

Ultimately, we have to pay taxes for infrastructure. Stop using cars and schools before you complain about paying the bill kids.. But I think it should mostly be by tariffs on imports -- which means local goods are cheaper and helps drive up employment. Can everyone now admit, that the "globalist" ideas we had during the 80's have a lot to do with the jobless claims today?

Originally posted by lpowell0627
A friend and co-worker of mine fought for two years to have our employer stop taking federal taxes out of his paycheck. I won't go into details, but basically he got a lawyer and "proved" that he was not required to pay Federal Income Taxes based pretty much on some of the information in this thread.

After two years, and $15K, he "won". Our employer stopped removing Federal Taxes from his wages and he was ecstatic.

Now fast forward about 8 years. The IRS seized his home (via lein), his wages are garnished excessively, he owned his own landscaping business on the side, well, I guess I should say he USED to own his own business....that's gone too.

Long story really short -- he tried fighting it again, and again, owes another $15 - 18K to another lawyer, and basically has no more money to keep fighting.

Coincidentally, a year after the IRS caught up with him, his daughter lost her grant money for college, he can't get a loan from anyone, etc. etc.

He still says he's right. I say that sometimes the fight just isn't worth it.

His whole life -- he has 5 kids -- has changed. He's not going to be able to retire anytime soon -- I forget the exact amount, but he owes the IRS hundreds of thousands of dollars. The majority of which are penalty and fees for having to go after him.

Yeah, everyone with the grand vision of "standing up for justice" had better think about that.

Did the US government REALLY care about the need to attack Iraq, and bomb lots of people? We all know now, that they were selling us on the need -- without really believing it themselves. They manufactured information. About a million people dead as a result.

What is different between the people there and the people here? To me -- it's just location. And whatever can be gotten away with, they will do.

So if you become broken and broke from the IRS, the TV news won't cover it, except to use you as a warning to others. Does the media ever mention that the Iraq war was wrong, when we debate the costs? No -- that would be CRAZY TALK. ALL sane people are crazy, and marginalized.

Fight for election reform and getting rid of electronic voting machines and equal applications of justice. We can only claw our way up incrementally, and everything starts from having a representative government -- rather than choosing corporate flunky #1 or #2.

I personally know many people who do not pay taxes by simply filing a corporate of sole. Corporate of sole is a loop hole in the tax system that makes you tax exempt. Corporate of sole means you are the sole proprietor of a church much like the pope. If you are the spiritual guide of your house hold then you can be the soul proprietor of a church, and you can call the church what ever you want. This is exactly how the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ & Latter day Saints) has avaited taxes all these years. I have seen all of their paper work concerning this and it is bullet proof. Now the government will black list you but they can not do anything, because this law was established shortly after the Constitution was signed. Believe me when I tell you I know people who are pour and people who are millionaires and the US Government has not gotten a dime from for many years.

Best regards
The Tick

I believe the Federal Reserve is also HQ'd in Puerto Rico. But the IRS is for sure and for sure a private corporation.

Ever wonder why the pamphlet states that paying Income Tax is voluntary? No, it's not because the IRS is kind and giving you an implied option (You probably don't have to pay). The Tax is "Voluntary" is another way of saying "We take donations". Meaning that what you give them, they can keep with their perverted clear conscience. If you pay money to company A and meant to pay it to company B. You can go back to company A years later and get your money back because they should have a credit for it on your account (assuming you're paid up). However, if company A accepts donations, they have no obligation to return the money. Same with the IRS. If or when the IRS would find themselves being sued in court for the grand theft of your money, your parents money, your grandparents money, they can claim you gave it to them voluntarily.

We're "customers"

Screw it, life is a scam, just like the other thread stated.