The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S., page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 20 times


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 06:59 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by kode
reply to post by dooper


And i dont beleive that. America has been well documented this side of the pond and its plain to see you guys have a real problem. I think your delusional.



Well, you're welcome to believe any old delusional, sterotypical, bigoted thing you like!

What you said there was tantamount to an American saying that all Brits have bad teeth and are foppish inbreeds. I don't happen to believe that, but it HAS been well documented on this side of the pond.

Perhaps one of my dear old dad's favorite sayings comes into play here. He used to constantly tell me to "believe nothing that you hear, and only half of what you see".

Besides, if we have any sort of "real problem", isn't it our problem to handle, same as your problems are yours to handle as you see fit?


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:08 PM by THELONIO
reply to post by nenothtu


i get bored talking to americans about their guns, but for some wierd reason i am still here, havent you noticed that when a thread about violence in some country is posted it always seems to go back to americans and their guns, if america is such a peaceful place why do you need guns?

as i said in a previous thread 280,000,000 guns in private hands across the us, 30,000 gun related deaths a year, in england you might have a punch up, go home with a broken nose or maybe even worse , but it appears that in america, if you have a fight someone would rather kill someone than have a punch on the nose, stop hiding behind those guns you tarts and fight like men



reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:18 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by kode
reply to post by SLAYER69


Well thay have on this thread.

I just cant get over how a bunch of power crazed individuals go on about there right to own life taking weapons, when there is no need to own them at all, in the main.



Power crazed? I may be one of the most powerless individuals you've ever met. Being "powerful" is for losers who have no self-posession.

I have the right to own pretty much anything I want, though, including "lifetaking weapons", or any other sort of weapon for that matter, and I have no "need" to justify a "need", any more than you have a "need" to justify a "need" for groceries. I have a RIGHT over here, and I don't NEED a "need". That's sort of the idea behind "rights".

On the topic of rights, you, being the citizen of a nation foreign to me, have not the right to determine what I can and cannot own, any more than I have the right, as a citizen of a nation foreign to you, to insist that you MUST own something.

That's simple civility and neighborliness. I don't dictate what my next door neighbors do either. If they can't sort it out on their own, I can't offer any help in their decisions.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:22 PM by dooper
reply to post by kode

Apparently, you aren't as informed as you purport to be. Must be a great disappointment to momma as well.

We received a gentleman from Iraq a few months back who was scared (fill in the blank)less of entering this lawless, gang-dominated country.

His friends and family were worried for his visit, and upon arriving, he was absolutely stunned. He verbalized all that had and was being propagated overseas in the news, and how he was very relieved to find that the US was nothing like "foreigners" were told on a daily basis.

We were a bit surprised too, as he was anticipating the US to be much more violent than his own country of Iraq.

This is yet another reason I don't much give folks any credibility as far as their opinions.

I see a lot of misinformation out there on so many levels, a lot of dumbass assumptions, and just some outright stupidity based entirely on false data.

And I'm supposed to be the one who's delusional?

Hell, I live here. So don't tell me what's going on here.

You stay in your ****hole and I'll stay in mine.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:35 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by kode
reply to post by nenothtu


We are not a bunch of knife weilding nutters.

This newspaper, if you can call it that, is just playing on peoples fear because we are having a mini heatwave and peoples tempers are more easily frayed.



Well of course that's the cause! I figured it was something along those lines. Any excuse for a wee bit of mayhem will do, eh?


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 07:56 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by SLAYER69
Originally posted by kode
reply to post by nenothtu


We are not a bunch of knife weilding nutters.


YET we As "Americans" are viewed as a bunch of "Fanatics" when we pull out old "Trusty" that was handed down to us from our grandfathers when somebody comes into our homes uninvited!



Interesting you should mention that. I had uninvited guests actually gain entry this past Wednesday night around 11 pm, through the back door, while I was sitting on ATS, oddly enough . MY stupid, but psycho and fanatical self, had "Old Trusty" locked and secured upstairs at the time.

Fortunately for me, I have a couple of rather large, and thoroughly ill-temepered, dogs in the house. When I heard the voices in the hallway, I proclaimed "let's go hunting, boys!" and loosed the dogs while I went to retrieve and unlock Old Trusty. By the time I got back downstairs, the intruders had selected the better part of valor and vanished.

Who'd have thunk it? They'll probably try to ban my dogs next, so that our streets are safer for their pet violent criminals.

Now I have to fix the fence in my back yard where they initially entered.



reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 08:03 PM by jokei
Well, it's getting pretty heated, be nice if everyone stayed a bit more reasonable.

To be honest, our government would never let us have guns, even if we wanted them, but it seems we don't want them - I certainly feel a lot safer on the streets without guns being around. Yeah, I'd feel a lot safer at home with a gun in the house, but I still wouldn't be able to legally carry it on the streets and as a law abiding citizen I wouldn't. The issue would be where our less law-abiding citizens would wilfully carry them on the streets, so legalising guns isn't going to help us here, it would probably make things worse.

Now regardless of how the figures have been misrepresented, which is correct. We do have a problem with violent crime. which should be the issue under discussion, not the rights and wrongs of gun-control, it's not applicable to the UK, so why not talk about the violent crime and people stop bickering.

My thoughts on one of the earlier posts that remarked that this seems to be a weekend phenomena, culturally this has been the case since the industrial revolution, we work for 5 days and get 2 to "enjoy" ourselves, most of us are trying to condense a whole weeks worth of desire for fun into those 2 days, some people aren't capable of doing it responsibly, most people are struggling to pay bills, stuck in jobs they hate, with little option to do anything. We're shown all these insane lifestyles on tv, that we can only dream of and we can't achieve, who can blame us for letting rip at the weekends, especially the average joe...

- I hate to stereotype, but to the Brits here, think of someone you work with that's a Sun reader, probably really nice and all...

Also, in the UK alcohol is very cheap - I don't know how that compares overseas recently, so we have a cheap way to lose our inhibitions and relax (cynicism there), that's not really comparable to anything else for the vast majority of people. There's been a lot of talk over here about raising the price of alcohol, especially that sold in supermarkets, but I don't think that's really an answer... especially as I love booze.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 08:03 PM by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by THELONIO


I love that video.

The reason the English aren't allowed guns is because last time we were, we took most of the world off everyone else. Best we leave it to drunken high-street punch-ups, methinks!


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 08:16 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by THELONIO
reply to post by nenothtu


i get bored talking to americans about their guns, but for some wierd reason i am still here, havent you noticed that when a thread about violence in some country is posted it always seems to go back to americans and their guns, if america is such a peaceful place why do you need guns?

as i said in a previous thread 280,000,000 guns in private hands across the us, 30,000 gun related deaths a year, in england you might have a punch up, go home with a broken nose or maybe even worse , but it appears that in america, if you have a fight someone would rather kill someone than have a punch on the nose, stop hiding behind those guns you tarts and fight like men


I perceive you to be one of those loud-mouthed fops that give Brits a bad name for being "light in the loafers". It's clear from your post that you have no concept of fighting in the real world. I've run into loud mouths such as yourself before, all bark and no bite. They talk like you do, all about "fair fights" and such until educated, by one, or at times several, pragmatists.

I say this because of your laughable "gun and gun death" statistics. (evidently we are all VERY good shots ) and your penchant for calling men "hiding behind guns" out to be "tarts". Never a good idea to do that in the real world, where I have to live. It shows a certain degree of gullibility, and a belief that one is "bullet proof" usually reserved for the very young, and the very foolish.

Now, why would I logically debar myself the use of firearms, knowing that my opponent will be so armed, legally or not? Is that really your idea of a "fair" fight?

Is there a particular REASON you think I should coddle criminals? Or is it you just think that's cricket?

Please, see my post immediately under your concerning my "need" for guns.

Please, by all means continue to cling to the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

Just don't do it out here in the real world please, for your own sake.



[edit on 2009/7/4 by nenothtu]


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 08:22 PM by kode
reply to post by dooper



To see you lower the tone and bring my mother into it. But then thats another horrible amreican trait is it not, the whole mother this, mother that. Disrespectful.

As far as im concerned there is no violence problem in the uk. We fair well compared to most.

Certainly better then a bunch of gun tooting, dog owning ye ha's, who come from the good ol US of A.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 08:50 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by SLAYER69
Originally posted by kode

As far as im concerned there is no violence problem in the uk. We fair well compared to most.

Certainly better then a bunch of gun tooting, dog owning ye ha's, who come from the good ol US of A.


OK ...


I'm not sure what you are trying to describe? When you describe us as such...Americans as I for one have lived another story... Setting that aside let's look at the deeper under tones! That have created the issues that have hidden the issues.



I believe he was attempting to describe me. I'm the only one who has mentioned dogs here as an alternative to guns. Well, really an adjunct I suppose. I must have struck a nerve or something, going by his attempted slight.

An observation I should like to make is that I "tote" guns, I do not "toot" them. That's just wrong on so many levels, but I believe it to have been a Freudian slip.

I WOULD sort of like to have a definition of what a "ye ha" is, as I'm not familiar with that particular British term. If it's in the ballpark of what I think, I prefer the term "hillbilly", as that is how I self-identify. As we all know, political correctness is all the rage these days.

Mods: please don't "warn" the lad, or delete the post. I took no offense, considering the source.

Indeed, the underlying cause for the violent behavior IS the issue. Human nature being what it is, I doubt that the causes for violent behavior are all that different between the US and the UK. People is people, wherever they may be.

Weaponry is NOT the cause, it is but a tool, for good or ill.

[edit on 2009/7/4 by nenothtu]


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 09:11 PM by kode
reply to post by nenothtu


I think the nerve that was hit was when you Americano's saw a headline that seemed to justify you having guns. 'England more violent then the USA? Told you so, get some guns, guns are good'. Twaddle. Then to have your fun crushed as the article in question turns out to be rubbish.

Come on, how many times last year and this year have we heard about mass shootings in America? How many go unreported? And we are not talking about adults shooting each other here are we, no, we are talking children shooting children to.

And i think your find it’s possible to toot a gun as well as tote.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 09:13 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by Hawkwind.
The perception America has of Britain through the media amazes me sometimes, American's must think there's a video camera on every corner of every street and that there's a mosque on every block but you know what? It's all media hyped bull-crap and considering this is a site where people are meant to be generally weary of what the mainstream media says I'm surprised to see so many people lap up the hype without question.

Also, guns are for sissies, how 'bout that then?


Well, I could respond in kind concerning the British perception of America, but why bother? you will believe as you are programmed. Besides, I am loathe to generalize, as apparently you are not.

Out of curiosity, do you base your perceptions of America on mainstream media accounts? It's evident you've not been here to see first-hand.

Personally, I couldn't care less who you think guns are for. You have to deal with it in your country, and I deal with it in mine. If you're happy with your crime rate, then so am I.

I happen to think fists are for sissies who are afraid of things that go BOOM!, and are afraid to handle it when victimized, those who would rather just bend over and go along to get along. But then I don't have to deal with your problems, do I? Nor do I have to live in your culture, so who am I to judge?

Personally, I think that news report was flawed, and I don't think Britain is all that violent. Based on the responses I'm getting here, I think violence would make most of the folks responding to me on this thread wet themselves.

I said MOST, not all. Some of you clearly know which end wags and which end bites.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 09:17 PM by merkaba93
reply to post by Essan


So it has been established in this thread the criminals in the UK still have guns.

You have just stated that you do not object to using lethal force to deal with an intruder and that there could indeed be an intruder, one possibly with a gun, but you do not wish to possess a weapon that you cannot have because the govt. of your country does not trust you with it. Ice pick vs. gun = you better be really lucky.

First rule of a gun fight... bring a gun.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 09:25 PM by Bunken Drum
reply to post by fapython
Mate, could you please provide links to the stats you posted?
As far as I'm aware, your figures make a lot more sense than that comic the Daily Mulch.
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