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The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

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posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by Fang
reply to post by Sam Vimes
 

Sam, maybe your right. Who knows? My beef with Retseh is that he is unsalvageably obnoxious, a bigot and misanthrope of the first order, both ill informed and delusional. He has had a go at the unemployed, immigrants, pregnant teenagers and religious minorities. If he ever has visited the UK, he was clearly subject to an experience, which has further heightened his incipient feelings of insecurity and inferiority. Hence the invective he spouts on threads such as these. I too visit the States regularly and have close friends there, so I know what an aberration this ranting moon-bat is



The above is little more than a personal attack, and nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of this thread.

You will notice that I have at least tried to focus at least some of my replies on social standards in the UK.

Did I rattle you?


A personal attack? No.A statement of fact based on your posting history across a broad range of topics. Feel free to mount a factual challenge. Your attacks on the British and the UK have to be seen within the context of the views you have expressed on other groups and topics on this site. They provide a well rounded snapshot of the sort of person you are, my well rounded chum.




posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by Retseh
 


I would ask have you visited everysingle City, Town, Village, in the UK, if you have not, then your statement saying everywhere else in the UK is a dark and dismal place is misleading and ignorant to say the least.

Take a piece of your own advise, if you do notlike the UK, do not bother visiting or comming over. I am sure you will be safe in cities in the US such as New York, or any other gun ridden cities in the US Good luck.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 04:51 AM
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The Uk has always been a VERY violent place - just look at its history.
You don't get the biggest empire in history by being a bunch of tea drinking pansies with delicate sensibilities.

If you don't believe me, have a look at ANY of the headlines from the 1800's or from the last century.

They are even worse than today, with gangs robbing and killing at will, knife crime, gun crime, alcohol fuelled fights and riots and much more.

The difference is that today we are much more aware of it, even though there is nowhere NEAR the same amount of crime.

The figures in the story don't add up either, and it is more of an opinion poll than anything.

But trust this particular rag to spin it in a way that tries to strike fear into the heart of every person.
The only surprise is they didn't blame it all on immigrants taking our council houses



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by budski
The Uk has always been a VERY violent place - just look at its history.
You don't get the biggest empire in history by being a bunch of tea drinking pansies with delicate sensibilities.

If you don't believe me, have a look at ANY of the headlines from the 1800's or from the last century.

They are even worse than today, with gangs robbing and killing at will, knife crime, gun crime, alcohol fuelled fights and riots and much more.

The difference is that today we are much more aware of it, even though there is nowhere NEAR the same amount of crime.

The figures in the story don't add up either, and it is more of an opinion poll than anything.

But trust this particular rag to spin it in a way that tries to strike fear into the heart of every person.
The only surprise is they didn't blame it all on immigrants taking our council houses



what utter nonsense- "nowhere near the same amount of crime" for crying out loud crime levels are around ten times what they where compared to the 1930s when there was ACTUAL poverty- the difference is now we have moral poverty to go with our fancy electronic gadgets, holidays, designer clothes etc

Of course there has been violence in British history and always will, this is the land of man where there will never be perfection, but there is better and much worse- today is much worse- we have selfish people, we have broken homes where people often do not have a father figure (because of the same selfishness, the selfish fathers who do not take responsibility, the selfish mothers who look to welfare and multiple partners even though abuse is much more likely to happen in such circumstances), we have a pathetic justice system where "life" for murder is abuse of the term.

You need to stop peddling fantasy

[edit on 7-7-2009 by blueorder]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:42 AM
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I know a few people from Britain and every now and then they will talk about multiple stabbings in certain places. Makes you wonder what they would behave like if they could carry firearms.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by TeddiRevolution
I know a few people from Britain and every now and then they will talk about multiple stabbings in certain places. Makes you wonder what they would behave like if they could carry firearms.



I'll tell you how, safer- firearms would be licensed for non criminals and adults- most of these crimes with knives are by young dickheads and people with criminal involvement



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by budski
The Uk has always been a VERY violent place - just look at its history.
You don't get the biggest empire in history by being a bunch of tea drinking pansies with delicate sensibilities.

If you don't believe me, have a look at ANY of the headlines from the 1800's or from the last century.

They are even worse than today, with gangs robbing and killing at will, knife crime, gun crime, alcohol fuelled fights and riots and much more.

The difference is that today we are much more aware of it, even though there is nowhere NEAR the same amount of crime.

The figures in the story don't add up either, and it is more of an opinion poll than anything.

But trust this particular rag to spin it in a way that tries to strike fear into the heart of every person.
The only surprise is they didn't blame it all on immigrants taking our council houses



what utter nonsense- "nowhere near the same amount of crime" for crying out loud crime levels are around ten times what they where compared to the 1930s when there was ACTUAL poverty- the difference is now we have moral poverty to go with our fancy electronic gadgets, holidays, designer clothes etc

Of course there has been violence in British history and always will, this is the land of man where there will never be perfection, but there is better and much worse- today is much worse- we have selfish people, we have broken homes where people often do not have a father figure (because of the same selfishness, the selfish fathers who do not take responsibility, the selfish mothers who look to welfare and multiple partners even though abuse is much more likely to happen in such circumstances), we have a pathetic justice system where "life" for murder is abuse of the term.

You need to stop peddling fantasy

[edit on 7-7-2009 by blueorder]


I think you will find that the 30's were something of a historical blip and that in the 40's people were pre-occupied with organized violence on a wider scale. There has always been significant violence in British society. The ruling classes through the centuries lived in fear of 'The Mob'. From Footpads to Victorian 'Garroters', from the Luddites to Captain Swing, it's along rich history and to be fair, one which was often mirrored in other parts of Europe. The violence wasn't of course reported 24/7 across the media and the Coroner/Sheriff/Police were less pre-occupied with receiving complaints and keeping records than they are today.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by TeddiRevolution
I know a few people from Britain and every now and then they will talk about multiple stabbings in certain places. Makes you wonder what they would behave like if they could carry firearms.

The people stabbing people obviously don't care about laws, so if they really want a gun they CAN get a gun regardless of laws. So there are people out there with illegal firearms.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by merkaba93


Here we have another piece of proof that gun control does not work. The poor British who were once able to defend themselves in the face of violent crime have long now been neutered and we can see the effects. The British people should organize and reinstate their right to keep and bare arms so that they might better protect themselves. If criminals knew their prey would likely fight back with lethal force I am sure crime rates would drop dramatically.

I feel fortunate that I live in the US where my basic right of self defense is recognized and I am able to carry a gun with me every day.

I am especially reminded of this today, on July 4th, commemorating the fact that we have a country (well at least we did have a free country at one point) that exists because folks finally got fed up enough with tyranny that they shot the b@stards, and today we still have the same ability.

Gun control is evil.

What say you all? Opinions for or against in the face of this hard data?

www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


Sorry, i can't agree at all. I wouldn't trust half of Britain with a gun to be honest, people wouldn't use it for self defense, i think it'd be a stupid idea for us to 'bare arms'.

Cities such as London, Glasgow and Manchester would get a lot worse, drug crimes and gun deaths would rocket, with feuding gangs shooting each other with 'legal' guns. Much like New York, LA and Miami.

Not to mention it just gives the opportunity for more idiots to take people hostage in the streets, back alleys, banks and schools.

I'd rather every child was taught Karate, Tai Kon-Do or another form of self defense Martial Arts to grow up and use, than be given guns at 18/21, or what would potentially happen, little Marty borrowing his older brothers gun to 'scare some people' only to get into trouble somewhere, and be shot, or shoot someone.

Britain should remain publicly gun-free in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


I think you need to read some history, and also read up about how recorded crime affects stats and perceptions.

You mention one decade, I was making a comparison about how things have actually improved over the course of two centuries.


But hey, if you want to buy into the tabloid bull without actually doing any work and finding out the FACTS for yourself, that's up to you.

I stand by my assertion, and will go further and say that that crime is now at a lower level than at almost any time in British history.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by TeddiRevolution
I know a few people from Britain and every now and then they will talk about multiple stabbings in certain places. Makes you wonder what they would behave like if they could carry firearms.



I'll tell you how, safer- firearms would be licensed for non criminals and adults- most of these crimes with knives are by young dickheads and people with criminal involvement


WOW, that's one of the strangest statements I've ever seen.

Are you trying to say that criminals wouldn't be able to get hold of guns if they were only licensed for law abiding people?

What utter nonsense.

Big news fella - criminals can already get all the guns they want.

Heck, a person could go to certain parts of Birmingham or Manchester, make a couple of phone calls and have a gun within an hour, if they were so inclined, for less than £200.

And I mean a fully functional revolver or automatic with ammo, not some saturday night special.

What on earth makes you think that criminals wouldn't get them and use them on a much more regular basis?

You think the fact that a citizen might be armed would act as a deterrent?

WRONG - that would just make the criminal shoot first, like in South Africa.

Also there are direct correlations between gun ownership and levels of domestic violence in which one spouse or the other was shot.

More suicides.

More murders.

Because a gun requires no thought - just point and shoot.

Whereas a knife requires you to get up close and personal.

Big difference.

If YOU want to carry a gun, go live somewhere they allow it.

I'd hate to see guns on our streets in the hands of irresponsible dweebs who think they're dirty harry.

Do yourself a favour and do some reading

You'll see tat the same stories about "Broken Britain" have been peddled for over 200 years


[edit on 7/7/2009 by budski]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Quick trip to the suburbs of Moscow will make the title of the thread look like Disneyland.

Peace



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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As an American, this thread title caught my eye, and I chuckled. Not as in funny, but peculiar.

Here in the US, we're supposed to be so violent, and lo and behold, our nation of origin is reported to be violent.

I suppose the apple never falls far from the tree.

Britain, Scotland, and Ireland, all were invaded so many times that there's no way to keep accurate count.

The Scots. Wow. Some fighting bastards to be sure. And when there was no one else to fight - they'd fight each other.

The Irish, whose Wild Geese earned an international reputation as being fine fighting men.

Oh, and of course, the Brits. Stiff upper lip and all that, who demonstrated a fighting ability over the centuries.

The offspring of Britain, Ireland, and Scotland came and settled in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and around. You'll note that none of these nations put up with a lot of * .

So which pot is going to call the kettle black?

Like brothers, we argue amongst ourselves when we don't have a common enemy, but we stick together like burrs when the time comes.

Consider just two weapons. The famous P-51 Mustang was mediocre until a Brit shoehorned a Merlin engine in the narrow airframe, turning it into probably the most effective fighter of the Second World War.

When we in the States were looking to design a new Main Battle Tank, it is British Chobham armor that defines its design.

OK. So Brits are violent people. So their offspring are too.

Hey, that's likely going to come in real handy in the years to come. We have more fish to fry.

Shame on you Brits! Violence!

Some of mine on my mother's side came from Scotland via Ireland, and on my Dad's side, from Britain, with Cherokee Indian a few generations back.

So. I have an excuse.

It's genetic.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by dooper

[Some of mine on my mother's side came from Scotland via Ireland, and on my Dad's side, from Britain, with Cherokee Indian a few generations back.


Are you available for the start of the English Football season? My team has some early matches with rivals, where I and my fellow supporters would welcome a chap like you.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Fang
 


You don't want me. I fight dirty and I cheat.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Fang
reply to post by Sam Vimes
 

My beef with Retseh is that he is unsalvageably obnoxious, a bigot and misanthrope of the first order, both ill informed and delusional. He has had a go at the unemployed, immigrants, pregnant teenagers and religious minorities



Hehe, I couldn't agree more, I don't think I've come across a more appalling creature since I've visited here. Huge chip on his shoulders, one chip on each I reckon. The only way on earth that people would have been unfriendly with him on his travels is if if he was unfriendly with them and going by his posts I think that might be the case.


Anyhow, the U.K, as with all places there are good and bad places to live though to say the place is worse than S.A and U.S is completely laughable i.m.o. Again though, let's not let the media influence us too much.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by merkaba93

I feel fortunate that I live in the US where my basic right of self defense is recognized and I am able to carry a gun with me every day.


www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


You may have the right to carry a gun and you may be a very sensible man who hope never to have to use it. BUT gun control is still a good thing because I am sure there are many more idiots out there who are not sensible and do hope to use their guns.

Anyway do you really feel safe with a gun? I can imagine feeling safe if I had one and my attacker did not, what if he had one, too?

I doubt he will let me see him taking aim so that I can shoot back, more like he will shoot me from behind, what use is a gun then?

Did you know that if you carried a gun in a conventional holster WITHOUT one in the chamber and a man with a knife has a go at you from less than 15 feet your chances are very very slim? Again, assuming that you see him coming.

What the problem is, my good man, is not that people are safer when they carry a gun or any type of weapon. The problem is this crappy "I want it now, I do not/should not have to work hard for what I want, I want to be famous, I want to be rich, throw it out and get a new one, mine is better than yours, I want it" society that we live in.

In a society like this where you are judged on what you have and what you look like, is it any wonder people will beat the snot out of someone for their iPod? If you think I am wrong turn on the tell at prime time and count how many different good looking people you see in one hour of non educational mind numbing shows against the number of so called "normal" looking people.

Sorry about the rant.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Nice post Dooper, but just to clarify, Scotland is in Britain. All scots are British, but not all British people are scots. I think you mean England where you write Britain.

Good post all the same. The UK, the US, the Canadians and of course everyone's mates the Aussies really do have far more in common than we have differences.

I think the fact we speak the same language leaves us to imagine that we are EXACTLY the same, whereas there are obviously cultural differences which we are flummoxed by, because we look similar and speak the same tongue so we superficially imagine there to be no differences.

Personally speaking, i'm a proud Englishman, a proud Briton, who loves many aspects of US culture and its people (apart from Retseh) and can't wait to do a lot of border-hopping when i'm living in Canada next year.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Retseh

It never ceases to amaze me when my British counterparts openly quaff pints of beer during workday lunches



Beer!?! At lunch? How bloody dare you? It is lager or ale you moose. And management likes it, too. And you think YOU live in the land of the free, meh.




While London can be fun, the rest of the UK is a dark and dismal place, and the only european country I visit where I am relieved to board the plane home.



Well yes, we try very hard to make sure obnoxious visitors who take themselves far too seriously get that impression and leave. But they bloody keep coming back.




Cynicism is a national sport, and for some reason everything is some huge joke, destined to be mocked and derided at every opportunity. Insecurity and immaturity is rampant.



Like I said we do not enjoy obnoxious visitors who take themselves far to seriously, please see above.




Now Sweden on the other hand, I would move there in a heartbeat.



Please do, have a lovely stay, don't bother writing. But will they take you?

So is that the kind of cynicism you meant? Thought you might miss it. Cheers.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Fang
I think you will find that the 30's were something of a historical blip


erm, no they weren't it was just one decade selected before the 1960s




and that in the 40's people were pre-occupied with organized violence on a wider scale.


pick the 40s it was still on the same sort of tiny levels when compared with the post 1960s



There has always been significant violence in British society.


Nothing on the scale of the post 1960s generation



The ruling classes through the centuries lived in fear of 'The Mob'.



No doubt they did, back when people barely made it to 30- now what we tried to do as a civilisation and society was improve and progress, based on some sort of moral code- we have regressed since the 1960s- hope this is clear for you






From Footpads to Victorian 'Garroters', from the Luddites to Captain Swing, it's along rich history and to be fair, one which was often mirrored in other parts of Europe. The violence wasn't of course reported 24/7 across the media and the Coroner/Sheriff/Police were less pre-occupied with receiving complaints and keeping records than they are today.



That would make sense if I said

"THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE BEFORE 1930"- clearly there was, but certainly, in the 20th century, crime rocketed post 1960s (at a time when material wealth, life expectancy, material goods and diet vastly improved)- poverty causes crime my rectum



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