Could We Fight a Foreign Attack on U.S. Soil?

No offense but the chances of militias and armed citizens defending the country is nil. If anything they'll be viewed as an internal security threat due to ties to anti-government and Neo-Nazi groups, and those who are ex-military would be reinstated for service. Having paranoid people running around with guns conducting their own little war in the midst of a national crisis is the last thing anyone needs.

If you guys are that serious about fighting, why not sign up for the National Guard and get paid to train? At least you would learn the proper way to do this. Not to mention, you'd be off FBI watchlists.

Re: Chinese forces. Much of mainland China is a desert and those people live in basic conditions far harsher than the average American. If anything they are far better conditioned to survival than us, they are not dependent on air conditioning.

The two big assets the US would have is an extremely large geographic area and heavy defense installations that can hit targets around the world.
The biggest negatives? The fleet and active force is too spread out across the world to immediately respond to a crisis, and lack of backup. I;d be surprised to see anyone beyond England send forces, possibly Canada. Most countries have their own internal problems at the moment.

Originally posted by pyrytyes
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

"Reassure me that we would ber able to or give me more things to really stay up late at night worrying about. Either way, what do you think?"

Simple answer: No. No foreign power would attempt a forceful attack on the US mainland with the goal of occupation, annihilation.

Why would they have to attack in such a violent manner? The methodologies are already in place and active to step right in and take over without a shot fired or a bomb dropped. You just have to look at the current and recent past administrations to see that we are defeated already.

We, as a country are divided ideologically. When there are more on the side of de-weaponizing the populace, the take over will be complete.
Nikita Kruschev commented "We will bury you", his statement is not far from coming true. "not from without, but from within."

Get some sleep. Commrade. Big Brother watches over you...

As I said before, I'm more of the thought that they already have us by the balls economically and in so many other ways that they won't need to invade/bomb/annihilate. But then I get to thinking that my thinking might be too Western or too single-threaded and I might be assuming too much if I assume they won't do BOTH.

I don't disagree with anything else you mention here. Do you however think and attack like this might unite us again? Like we united for a second on 9/11 and immediately thereafter (to which i say and have always said too bad we didn't have a president or the leadership who knew how to foster this and instead allowed further division, and to which some will say well of course not because that was the plan...but I'm not arguing that here really. In my scenario...assume we DO get attacked like we did at Pearl Harbor or in New York and D.C.) Will we rally? Is our military going to be of any use? Or will I have to man a gun tower and shoot planes down?

They may try, but it would never work, thanks to the 2nd amendment there are more guns in the U.S. than anywhere, combine that with the military fire power we have and who ever would invade would have quite the battle on hand.
I know for montana they did a survey last fall, they estimate 4 guns for every person alive just in our little state.
I am sure people would wake up and take arms to fight if it was on U.S. soil, all the nancy do rights would change their tune and stand up for whats right.

Originally posted by surfinguru
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Well, let's see, the numerous men and women training and being trained in the armed services that are CONUS, Veterans themselves, National Guard Units, Reserves, DHS, NSA, CIA, FBI, local Police, Sheriff, SWAT Teams, private contractors (Xe for example), other firearms training facility employees in an of themselves is a pretty big list of people to organize and resist on a professional level.

Now, factor in the level of guns sales (1.2 million in April alone) and the fact that ammunition manufacturers can't keep up with demand tells me that a large portion of the US population is very well armed and ready.

That makes me feel a lot better. I know we have firepower...but do we have enough right HERE. Hmmm how big is CONUS these days...I should look.

Anyway, then I start worrying about some of them being either taken out first (I'm sure they'd target bases, runways, airports, and other infrastructure first, right) or immediately diverted to first-responder type emergencies.

And that point about ammo? That's well and good but once the SHTF in this scenario, do you know how fast that's going to go? And if they can't keep up with the demand now...

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by jprophet420

 

I have no doubt Americans would fight however, wherever they needed to. Hell I would too. But how many would? Do you think our most densely populated areas would fare? The big cities. The states where they're more sitting ducks. I worry about them.

Also by saying this about the guerilla warfare, partisans, insurgency, are you also saying that out military might be stretched to thin? Or be too far away?

No, thats just how you fight on home soil. you hide in the cut and pop out with a gun or shank or homemade grenade. The big cities would be prime candidates for this kind of fighting.

In full metal jacket, how many people does the sniper hit before Joker kills her? and out of the whole platoon only Joker has the heart to kill her. Thats what its really like, even tho its hollywood.

If you really want to feel better, watch the movie Red Dawn. I know its hollywood, but I think it very accurately shows how the American people will react. Scared at first, but slowly they become brave and aware of what is going on and take their country back from the Soviets.

If there is one thing the rest of the world doesn't have that we do is the basic understanding of human flaw and error and how to exploit it. They used the perversion of soviet troops in red dawn to lure them into an ambush. A lot of women (not all) in the states are good at manipulation. I wish i was kidding.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by LeTan]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by LeTan]

Originally posted by severdsoul
They may try, but it would never work, thanks to the 2nd amendment there are more guns in the U.S. than anywhere, combine that with the military fire power we have and who ever would invade would have quite the battle on hand.
I know for montana they did a survey last fall, they estimate 4 guns for every person alive just in our little state.
I am sure people would wake up and take arms to fight if it was on U.S. soil, all the nancy do rights would change their tune and stand up for whats right.

Yeah I'm thankful for the second amendment too. I own guns. But I also know I personally don't have nearly enough ammo, and that I won't be on any priority list to get more (I know, learn to make my own...ugh). Thing is, when I watched Pearl Harbor and them shooting at fighter planes and bombers with rifles...well that doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. Partisans, guerillas, and resistance fighters can make a huge difference in a war, I agree. Thing is...will we have ENOUGH?

Our government, law enforcement, and military aren't exactly militia and vigilante-friendly now...think that would change and there would be cooperation?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Originally posted by jprophet420
Vietnam wtfpwnd us and so did Iraq on home turf. And were not 3rd world. I'm not worried in the slightest.

I'm not sure what your comments about Vietnam and Iraq means? I'm aware we're not quite third world yet too. And I'm glad you're not worried.

But tell me WHY you're not worried? If this scenario were to unfold, what would happen?

What he's getting at is the "home court" advantage. Americans know the land, know the weather, etc. And civilian cooperation would be basically nonexistent. In Vietnam and Iraq, we faced similar situations and wound up embarrassed by countries with inferior militaries.

It's an advantage for sure, but in an invasion situation, I don't know that it would be a sure thing. It was, however, a huge help for American fighters during the Revolutionary War.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by sweetpeanc]

Originally posted by LeTan
If you really want to feel better, watch the movie Red Dawn. I know its hollywood, but I think it very accurately shows how the American people will react. Scared at first, but slowly they become brave and aware of what is going on and take their country back from the Soviets.

If there is one thing the rest of the world doesn't have that we do is the basic understanding of human flaw and error and how to exploit it. They used the perversion of soviet troops in red dawn to lure them into an ambush. A lot of women (not all) in the states are good at manipulation. I wish i was kidding.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by LeTan]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by LeTan]

Seen it. Jericho too. It's good but it could be idealistic. Then I also think it was also a while back when the mindset was different. And I also get to thinking that the majority of our population is in large cities and (no offense to city dwellers...I was one once) might not be of the I just worry, as I just stated in the above post do we have the sheer numbers? Will people roll over and die without their iPods and Starbucks or get mad and fight? I hope to hell it's the latter but I really don't know...I know I feel helpless and I know they might too.

I hear the stories from my parents and their friends and relatives about how it was during WWII in Europe...most of THEM were helpless. Yet the resistance did make a big difference too...

reply to post by ~Lucidity

"In my scenario...assume we DO get attacked like we did at Pearl Harbor or in New York and D.C.) Will we rally? Is our military going to be of any use? Or will I have to man a gun tower and shoot planes down?"

IF this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ were to happen, it would be by INVITATION from our own government, especially if it were to be on a massive scale. Our tax dollars have paid for some mighty fine defenses, early warning systems in the years that I've been paying into the system.

On the other hand...where is the nearest "gun tower" to your location? I am in Tucson, and never have I seen one, let alone one available for my use. The military will take care of it, unless they are ordered to stand down and allow it to happen.

Will we rally? It has been known to happen, and I have no doubt that should the scenario play out as you seem to hope, the populace will man-up and yes, rally.

Playing war games, strategies, etc., is a well and good, but the actuality of such happening IRL, are slimmer than none. Like was said...not from without, but from within. Are you prepared mentally to eliminate your neighbor? Condition yourself to that eventuality, as that is the course that will come about...

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
No offense but the chances of militias and armed citizens defending the country is nil. If anything they'll be viewed as an internal security threat due to ties to anti-government and Neo-Nazi groups, and those who are ex-military would be reinstated for service. Having paranoid people running around with guns conducting their own little war in the midst of a national crisis is the last thing anyone needs.

If you guys are that serious about fighting, why not sign up for the National Guard and get paid to train? At least you would learn the proper way to do this. Not to mention, you'd be off FBI watchlists.

Re: Chinese forces. Much of mainland China is a desert and those people live in basic conditions far harsher than the average American. If anything they are far better conditioned to survival than us, they are not dependent on air conditioning.

The two big assets the US would have is an extremely large geographic area and heavy defense installations that can hit targets around the world.
The biggest negatives? The fleet and active force is too spread out across the world to immediately respond to a crisis, and lack of backup. I;d be surprised to see anyone beyond England send forces, possibly Canada. Most countries have their own internal problems at the moment.

Yeah I guess I just touched on this in one of my last posts...the government, law enforcement, the military is currently NOT militia and armed citizen friendly, but this COULD change...and a situation could make it change fast. paradigms would have to shift fast and we might realize we're all on the same side for once. I just don't know if the infighting would continue or this would unite us and prove once again the foresight of our founders and the people who fought forand to keep this kind of control by the citizenry in their hands.

Would someone on the watch lists even be allowed to join the National Guard?

Yeah Canada would almost be drawn in like suction, as would Mexico. But I'm not sure even England would have our backs at this point, nevermind anyone else.

reply to post by severdsoul

i really hope so. and that we would have enough ammo!

I think youre all missing a major point, If the US were ever to face an invasion and foreign troops made it on to our soil, I can say with certainty that nukes will be thrown, there is nothing for any country to gain here trying to lead an ivasion on the ground. so the chances of ever seeing any physical combat with other foreginers is limited to those that are invading from mexico

sure. it hasn't happened yet, and most likley for good reason.

invading forces would probably be stopped in their tracks at the Rockies and Mississippi River. IF they ever made it to the souther states, there would be a blood bath the likes of wich the world has never seen.

this may be the one thing to unify americans. fanatical resisitance toward a common enemy.

it is the very reason why the founding fathers wrote in the 2nd amendment, to guard against enemies foreign and domestic. they saw it coming, that at some point someone would try and take the candy from the baby. it may as well be the one factor that makes anyone planning an invasion think twice about it. knowing that at some point they would have to deal with millions of well heeled civilians.

i would be willing to bet that the government/military includes this (armed citizens) as part of the nation's defense, even relying on it. they can spread themselves thin knowing there is a very large partisan army just waiting to be let off of the chain.

in such an event we could expect to see the draft reinstated, and any able bodied persons between the ages of 18-40 would be called to arms. right after the food rationing begins...

reply to post by sweetpeanc


Ahh...gotcha...thanks. That just went right over my head.

Originally posted by gravykraken
sure. it hasn't happened yet, and most likley for good reason.

invading forces would probably be stopped in their tracks at the Rockies and Mississippi River. IF they ever made it to the souther states, there would be a blood bath the likes of wich the world has never seen.

In order to make it to the rockies you wouldve had to blow past our entire navy, At this point nukes would have been used. Once nukes are used the whole war is fought from above.

Originally posted by pyrytyes

IF this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ were to happen, it would be by INVITATION from our own government, especially if it were to be on a massive scale. Our tax dollars have paid for some mighty fine defenses, early warning systems in the years that I've been paying into the system.

On the other hand...where is the nearest "gun tower" to your location? I am in Tucson, and never have I seen one, let alone one available for my use. The military will take care of it, unless they are ordered to stand down and allow it to happen.
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Will we rally? It has been known to happen, and I have no doubt that s.hould the scenario play out as you seem to hope, the populace will an-up and yes, rally.
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Sure...I have faith in the early warning and missle defense systems. But I'm also too skeptical to believe we haven't been infiltrated by spies and agents or that people who might wish to attack/invade us won't use some of the same tactics that we would use against them...i.e. taking out missile defense systems first. Also, I recall hearing that our MDS doesn't have a stellar track record in test (but I could be misremembering that) and it's certainly never been tested in real battle. Also, also, China is capable of shooting down satellites AND has the plans and schematics for at least one DoD satellite (was in the news). I'm sure we "fixed" that but who knows.

Oh and my nearest gun tower is at a former AFB about three miles away, which is now a reserve base which i assume would be reactivated if not taken out early. I guess I could climb on the roof..lol.

And finally, I don't hope it plays out this way. I just think and worry. But I'm sure more brilliant minds have done all the planning for me already and I should just start sleeping again, right?




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oops. nvm.

[edit on 4/7/2009 by gravykraken]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


"And finally, I don't hope it plays out this way. I just think and worry. But I'm sure more brilliant minds have done all the planning for me already and I should just start sleeping again, right?"

I was not serious about you wanting it to happen.

But, I was serious about getting some sleep. You must be ALERT when the SHTF!
It isn't worth worrying about...be mentally prepared to do want ever you have to do, is the best plan you can have. Stay healthy....

I think the US would repel an invasion fairly easily.And if I were living in the states it is not something I would have sleepless nights over because it would never happen.If anything it is more likely that the US will see its own troops over-run the states before any foreign invader...if martial law was ever to be declared.The US government is a bigger threat to the US than N.Korea,Iran,China,The Middle East or Russia put together IMO and if I were in the states I would be more worried about how they are slowly destroying and corrupting the country.