Georgia freemasons at loggerheads over admission of black man to lodge, page 3

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reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 09:33 AM by Wimbly

Its not much different than the congressional black caucus, that will not allow whites in their little club. If you accept it for that group, than you better be prepared to accept it for all of them.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 01:21 PM by network dude

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Rockpuck

Well read what network dude said in one of the other threads. He said he didn't take his oath (?) in front a women or a black man. . . Thats why they weren't allowed into masonry.
I've never known another sect like the freemasons which can openly tell everyone that they wont tell the truth because they have to protect secrets, can be openly racist and sexist, and then claim that they can make a good man a better man! What absolute bull**it. . .

Luckily I calmed down and read the rest of the tread before I responded to this. No, I never said anything about my oath haveing anything at all to do with race. Here is a little personal history so you will have a better idea where I am in this discussion. My step daughter whom I had raised since she was 4 years old is now 22. When she was 18 she joined to army. I tried to talk sense into her and get her to join the Air Force, but she knew everything. She met and dated a black guy. We are in the south, and contrary to progressive thinking, there are still some ignorant people who would frown upon that kind of relationship. Anyway, she wound up pregnant and the two of them decided to get married. My wife and I spoke with them in depth about this and tried to make sure they were not getting married just because of the baby. To make a long story short, Her husband is one of the coolest people I know and he is my friend as well as my son-in-law. He hangs out with me wen he visits and all my friends like him. My grandson is my life. Having this relationship with my son-in-law gives me a unique perspective of the things a black man still has to deal with. And yes I see both sides of that argument. The fact is that in the south, there is still a racial divide and it extends through most social environments. Even masonry to an extent. I have mentioned it here before. I would love to be a one man army and single handedly solve the racial issues that plague the south and some of the north. I don't think I am that strong, but I will try to do my part. I am quite sure that if my son-in-law petitioned my lodge, he would not get in. It would be suggested that he inquire with the local Prince hall lodge. This is not what all of masonry is about, and not all areas are this way. It has to do with the individual members of that lodge. Once there is an exchange of information and customs with the Prince Hall brothers in my Jurisdiction, I am hopeful that we will be able to start to heal this wound. Unfortunately, we have to take baby steps right now. So I will do my part and try to bridge this gap. But please don't put words in my mouth that would never have been there.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 01:29 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by network dude

I am quite sure that if my son-in-law petitioned my lodge, he would not get in. It would be suggested that he inquire with the local Prince hall lodge. This is not what all of masonry is about, and not all areas are this way. It has to do with the individual members of that lodge.

Are you an officer of your lodge? If not, you should start shooting for that! My lodge would never have accepted a black guy 3 years ago. I am W.M. now, and I can assure you, that after much debate, arguing, and a few demittals, we would now accept a "well-qualified" black guy. On the other hand, a lot of the white guys that got ran through just so the lodge would get dues money would not fly now!!

This year as W.M. and in the previous few years in other seats, or just as a member, it has become my agenda to black-ball anyone I haven't met, or that I meet and don't like. It was controversial at first. I feel it is the applicants duty to come to a meal, or to come to my job and get my approval. I don't trust our investigative committee, because they are driven by our need to make budget.

Two good friends of mine are black. A Police Chief, and an ex-NFL player. I have been laying the ground work to get them into our lodge, and we are ready for them now!

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 01:46 PM by network dude

reply to post by getreadyalready

I am the JD this year. While I would love to open that can of worms when I get my turn in the east, I don't want to hear the crickets when the gavel sounds.

I think the way to go about my situation is as I said, to attempt to get the Price Hall lodge and my lodge to have some interaction. I think if some of the older brothers who are set in their ways see that everyone has something to offer regardless of their color, it would be a monumental breakthrough. Baby steps. I have been thinking about what I want to drive towards when I get my turn. I will keep it semi-uncontroversial unless I get a second term, then I will call out the dogs.

good luck with your endeavor and let me know how it comes out.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 01:51 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by network dude

Open the can of worms now, while someone else can play moderator. Then by the time you are in the East, you will have a luke-warm audience to pander too!

In the current situation, you are forbidden from any communication or dealings with a "clandestine made Mason." Don't open a dialogue with PH Mason's except through your Grand Lodge!

I didn't bring up the addition of black members, instead I approached it by eliminating the bad candidates that had been slipping through. Nobody could argue with that cause, but it illuminated the need for more "Good" candidates, and an entire segment we were missing out on!

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 01:58 PM by network dude

reply to post by getreadyalready

In NC the recognition passed last year, but I admit I have no idea what that means as far as PH goes. I will make sure whatever I do will be with the blessing of our DDGM. I am a bit conservative with my approach on this subject though, so I think I will ponder my plan for a bit longer. thanks for the advice though.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 02:19 PM by Choronzon

I am an officer of both blue and red lodge in GA. There is no code denying people of color from joining a regular Masonic lodge. The only thing preventing them from becoming members is old men who drop black cubes.

There is an old story that Martin Luther King Jr. asked for a petition to regular blue lodge Masonry, at which point a petition was drawn up, under the stipulation that a Prince Hall Masonic petition be supplied in return. Essentially this would have been a truce during the civil rights movement.
Which however, he refused. Which had created a schism between regular and Prince Hall Masonry.

However since the 1980's the grand lodge of GA has stated there is no existing feud and all men regardless of race should be admitted, which is still the stance of the grand lodge of GA.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 02:29 PM by CookieMonster09

Being that this story takes place in the deep South, Georgia, this story is not that surprising.

In one of the local Rotary Clubs here in town that meets at a "whites only" country club, the two black Rotary members have to be "escorted" to their Rotary Club meetings. You also have some high schools with separate proms - one for the black kids, one for the white.

Welcome to the deep South.

My understanding is that, while blacks could technically join a Masonic Lodge that is traditionally "white", most blacks prefer to join the Prince Hall Masons out of an affinity for their African-American brethren.

So, while there is a historically racial divide in Masonry in the U.S., the continuance of this tradition has more to do with people being more comfortable joining Lodges with people of a similar cultural/racial background. As a white male, I would never petition to join a Prince Hall Lodge - not because I am racist, but because I would generally feel more comfortable at my own Lodge (rightly or wrongly).

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 02:40 PM by Freemason Joe

Hello im new here and a 3 degree Master Mason also a member of the Masonic Lodge of Research, Kinghts Templer of the York Rite, and the Order of the Eastern Star. Masonry has been primarly white in this country early on the first Prince Hall Masons where chartered by the Grand Lodge here in this country but had their charter revoked several years later, at that point they branched off and started on their own. Since that time different states have lifted that banned charter and allowed them to join in, but not all states have as of now i believe all states but 9 allow them. I am not saying its right or its worng, but either side your on we have to follow our by-laws or we lose our charter and they did not abide by them so they lost their charter. i believe soon all states will accept men of all races, but untill then we have to follow the road we are on. Also a side note some states are still segregated even though they are accepted but in a lot of cases both sides want it that way because in some ways i believe the prince hall lodges are more serious about what they are doing

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 02:58 PM by network dude

Originally posted by Choronzon
The only thing preventing them from becoming members is old men who drop black cubes.

That is exactly it. It will just take time for both sides to become a bit more tolerant. I just hope it happens in my lifetime. I look forward to my Grandson following this path if he so choses.

BTW, did you check out that tinwiki link I sent you? I was just poking at you a bit.

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 09:09 PM by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Choronzon
The only thing preventing them from becoming members is old men who drop black cubes.

That is exactly it. It will just take time for both sides to become a bit more tolerant. I just hope it happens in my lifetime. I look forward to my Grandson following this path if he so choses.

BTW, did you check out that tinwiki link I sent you? I was just poking at you a bit.

So would you agree with me that the prince hall lodge should be done away with and that all masons, black or white, should unite under the same lodge?

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 11:34 PM by Freemason Joe

i agree as a new generation takes a bigger role and older members leave i believe this will change

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 08:23 AM by network dude

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Choronzon
The only thing preventing them from becoming members is old men who drop black cubes.

That is exactly it. It will just take time for both sides to become a bit more tolerant. I just hope it happens in my lifetime. I look forward to my Grandson following this path if he so choses.

BTW, did you check out that tinwiki link I sent you? I was just poking at you a bit.

So would you agree with me that the prince hall lodge should be done away with and that all masons, black or white, should unite under the same lodge?

That is a question that should be asked to a Prince Hall mason. I was thinking yesterday about how arrogant it would be for me to assume that PH wants to join with us. Like i said, I think it would be great if we could share some company and learn from each other.

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 09:00 AM by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Choronzon
The only thing preventing them from becoming members is old men who drop black cubes.

That is exactly it. It will just take time for both sides to become a bit more tolerant. I just hope it happens in my lifetime. I look forward to my Grandson following this path if he so choses.

BTW, did you check out that tinwiki link I sent you? I was just poking at you a bit.

So would you agree with me that the prince hall lodge should be done away with and that all masons, black or white, should unite under the same lodge?

That is a question that should be asked to a Prince Hall mason. I was thinking yesterday about how arrogant it would be for me to assume that PH wants to join with us. Like i said, I think it would be great if we could share some company and learn from each other.

It would certainly stop all the accusations of racism if the segregation between black freemasons in the Princes Hall and the ordinary masons came together under one all encompassing lodge.
Do you think it will ever happen?

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 11:56 AM by network dude

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

I would say that it has a better chance of happening there than other places. We are supposed to be beyond racism and focus on brotherly love, charity and community service. As I said before, it's individuals that make up freemasonry. So you can't expect miracles from ordinary people, but if a few of us try to bridge that gap, we will come closer to getting beyond the racial barrier. Some lodges don't have those issues at all. It all depends on the mindset of the town or city as a whole. People are inherently followers. If the majority of the population thinks it uncool to be racist, then most will follow the herd. And vice versa. If a lot of the town puts on white sheets and dances around the old burning cross, guess what, yea, a whole town of dumbasses.

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 02:22 PM by TurkeyBurgers

So can women become Masons? Or is there a "separate lodge" for them? Reminds me of how the Muslim women are segregated in the Mosques.

Masonry is just another Institution that encourages humans to "Climb the ladder", join the club, stand in line, respect my rank and my authority, pay tribute, attend service, recognize rituals, divide and conquer.

I will die more free than any of these men could ever live.

The freedoms I exercise now are bound only by myself. No human stands above me or under me. I stand equal to all. I kneel to no man no woman no God. No one will ever bow before me.

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 02:25 PM by jeasahtheseer

I just want to say that some prince hall kind of do things differently than other masons. Doesnt make either of us right or wrong though, and most masons respect that, we are ALL brothers in my eyes (even if some don't think so). It has nothing to do with disagreeing though. we don't want to come together. I don't want to get into the reasons right now though. I thnk people who arent prince hall would agree with me, too.

And anyways all the lodges I know of allow blacks. Except obviously some in the deep south. A lot of black people CHOOSE prince hall instead. I know I did (and this is the first and only time I'll admit to being a mason here because along with being a proud marine it just gives people more reason to hate me)

We don't want to "unite"!

[edit on 25-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 02:38 PM by network dude

reply to post by jeasahtheseer

thanks for your service. And it is nice to hear the other side of this coin expressed. I have been thinking of what steps I need to attempt to go the direction I want, and I think I need to do a good bit of research before I put my foot in my mouth.

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 02:40 PM by CookieMonster09

So can women become Masons? Or is there a "separate lodge" for them?

They can join Eastern Star, which is a women's masonic organization.

Masonry is just another Institution that encourages humans to "Climb the ladder", join the club, stand in line, respect my rank and my authority, pay tribute, attend service, recognize rituals, divide and conquer.

Actually, I have found Masonry to be quite the contrary. In fact, Master Masons meet "on the level" - meaning that we are all equal regardless of our professional titles, wealth, etc. There is even a phrase that the Master Mason degree - the 3rd degree - is the highest level in Masonry, and that further degrees are just additional knowledge.

It's not a military organization. It's a fraternity. So the whole, "respect my rank, pay tribute, etc." is not really applicable. Yes, we have rituals, but they are not mandatory to attend - People attend because they want to be there. Only officers of the Lodge are required to attend - and they choose to be officers voluntarily. And there is no "divide and conquer" - we are all equals in the sight of God according to Masonry - without regard to one's title, wealth, etc.

I just want to say that some prince hall kind of do things differently than other masons.

I'd enjoy learning more about these differences - Great to have you on here, jeasahtheseer.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by CookieMonster09]

reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 02:42 PM by jeasahtheseer

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by jeasahtheseer

thanks for your service. And it is nice to hear the other side of this coin expressed. I have been thinking of what steps I need to attempt to go the direction I want, and I think I need to do a good bit of research before I put my foot in my mouth.

Oh no, I don't think you put your foot in your mouth over anything! I just wanted to point out that there are some minor differences and this is the reason a lot of blacks choose prince hall..etc.