Georgia freemasons at loggerheads over admission of black man to lodge, page 2

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reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 10:53 PM by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by Viking04
There is no indication that BHO is, or has ever been a Freemason of any stripe. This has been beaten to death in the SS forum

Poor old Obama couldn't be a mason even if he wanted to! Obama is black and the racist masons don't let black people join their cult.

reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 10:56 PM by jd140

Black people can be Masons too.

I moved from GA a few months back and I knew a few black guys who were masons.

reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 10:56 PM by jeasahtheseer

I know many masons but they are all Prince Hall Masons and prince hall is basically all black people (not all but mostly). So I cant really comment on this.

I however have heard that segragation isnt really a common thing in masonry. They arent supposed to segragate. They are supposed to accept all as long as you believe in a higher power.

BTW masons arent only the elite, I'm from a poor area and like I said I know MANY masons.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 11:13 PM by Rockpuck

Not all Masons think alike. This is under the Georgian Grand Lodge.

I for instance in my Scottish Rite class had not just blacks but a fella from China at that. Just depends on where your at. In the North we are traditionally more tolerant (though I suppose I now live in the Southern Jurisdiction .. even though I live further north than my old lodge... what ever..)

I find it amusing this made it to the MSM lol ..

reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 11:15 PM by Rockpuck

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by Viking04
There is no indication that BHO is, or has ever been a Freemason of any stripe. This has been beaten to death in the SS forum

Poor old Obama couldn't be a mason even if he wanted to! Obama is black and the racist masons don't let black people join their cult.

Mmm.. yes we do .. then there is also Prince Hall Masonry, which is recognized by most Grand Lodges as Regular Masonry (not surprisingly those that do not recognize Prince Hall Masonry are in the South)

Your assumptions show your ignorance of the institutions that is Masonry.

reply posted on 21-7-2009 @ 11:32 PM by Mintwithahole.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Well read what network dude said in one of the other threads. He said he didn't take his oath (?) in front a women or a black man. . . Thats why they weren't allowed into masonry.
I've never known another sect like the freemasons which can openly tell everyone that they wont tell the truth because they have to protect secrets, can be openly racist and sexist, and then claim that they can make a good man a better man! What absolute bull**it. . .

reply posted on 22-7-2009 @ 03:33 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

I have never read Networkdude say that, nor do I believe he ever would say that (in reference to the black guy part) ..

No Mason takes their oaths in front of a woman .. it's a Fraternity?

Main Entry:
fra·ter·ni·ty Listen to the pronunciation of fraternity
Pronunciation:
\frə-ˈtər-nə-tē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural fra·ter·ni·ties
Date:
14th century

1: a group of people associated or formally organized for a common purpose, interest, or pleasure: as a: a fraternal order b: guild 1 c: a men's student organization formed chiefly for social purposes having secret rites and a name consisting of Greek letters d: a student organization for scholastic, professional, or extracurricular activities 2: the quality or state of being brothers : brotherliness3: persons of the same class, profession, character, or tastes

It's not a Club. It's not a Sorority. It's not a Society. It's a damn Fraternity I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that? Men only.

Black Masons exist. I've seen em. As do Latino (I have actually met a surprisingly large number of Latino Masons .. not to mention an awesome guy I met from Mexico City who explained about Masonry down there) and as do Asian Masons. Masonry exists in almost every country, every continent, every race. In America there are traditional histories involving black/white lodges.. tell a predominantly black Prince Hall Lodge they should give up their traditions and join Regular Masonry all for the sake of "fairness" .. You're gunna get laughed at and shown the door.

Perhaps not as much in the South, but in the North at every major Masonic event Regular and Prince Hall Masons always make sure some of their members are present at the other lodges functions, and at least once yearly some form of "partnership" of ritual takes place between each lodge and a Prince Hall Lodge.

But you wouldn't know this.. the only knowledge of Masonry you have is from the internet, you are therefore woefully ignorant in regards to your inaccuracies you have been posting. Not saying racism doesn't exist in Masonry (it does) .. but it's a individual thing, not a Masonic thing.

reply posted on 22-7-2009 @ 08:43 AM by Mintwithahole.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Okay, I hear what you're saying but why can't black men join the fraternity? Why is it that they had to create their own lodge?

reply posted on 22-7-2009 @ 08:27 PM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

Other more scholarly Masons could give you a much better and detailed account. Generally speaking it was after the civil war that White Masons refused to allow Blacks into the Lodges.. so they naturally formed their own lodges. Again, I am not much of an American historian in any form, I know Masonic Light could explain much better than I.

In the end, they formed their own traditions, just as Regular Masonry has our own traditions.. Prince Hall Masonry is NOT exclusively black, and regular Freemasonry is NOT exclusively White.

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 07:23 AM by Mintwithahole.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Can a white person join the Prince Hall lodges?

You also say that freemasonry doesn't admit black people but how about asians or Indians for example? Would they be allowed to join?

This segregation came about due to the civil war! Why is that apartheid can be shown to be morally wrong because it secluded black people yet lodges in civilised countries can somehow flaunt the race laws and still refuse admittance to black people? Doesn't the law apply to the masons?

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:05 AM by getreadyalready

reply to post by Udontknowme

I believe they have a thing against Jesus. My research shows me that Jesus seems to purposely left out of rituals, writings.

We have nothing against Jesus. Most of the Masonic work Pre-Dates Jesus. That is the only reason he is left out! The Scottish Rite has more influence from the New Testament.

As for not allowing Black Men in the lodge. My lodge does not have any, but we have had some that were tried and admitted as visitors. Some cranky old men were not happy about it, just from a tradition standpoint, but nobody made an official objection.

The Grand Lodge of Florida has issued a mandate that a Lodge can lose their Charter if any man is refused based on race alone! We have an anonymous ballot, and a single black-ball can exclude you, and no one is required to state their reasoning for a black-ball. In light of this, last year the Grand Lodge voted in legislation making it possible for the Grand Lodge to override a vote if it deems race is the deciding factor. For all you NWO haters, this is the equivalent of the Federal Government saying it can override State laws if it deems they are not in the best interest of the Union!

The reasoning behind this legislation is supposedly tax related. If we are a 501-C non-profit organization, we have to abide by EEO standards. If we do not abide by the EEO standards, we can still be a private club, but we will face HUGE tax liability!!

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:19 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

Can a white person join the Prince Hall lodges?

Yes. Prince Hall is popular among the Air Force and Army were I grew up, they had all assortments of people.

You also say that freemasonry doesn't admit black people but how about asians or Indians for example? Would they be allowed to join?

Dude.. are you not reading what I type? .. Freemasonry DOES ADMIT BLACKS.. And yes, they also admit Latinos and Asians and all varieties of ethnicity.

This segregation came about due to the civil war!

No, it came about through slavery and the ideologies of racial superiority, however it was not until blacks were free could they try and join a lodge.. hence it being after the Civil War.

Why is that apartheid can be shown to be morally wrong because it secluded black people yet lodges in civilised countries can somehow flaunt the race laws and still refuse admittance to black people? Doesn't the law apply to the masons?

I have no idea what you're talking about.. there was never apartheid in the US nor Masonry?

In the US, Masonry is a private organization, as such laws regarding membership are not governed by the State, but by the institution it's self as granted by the Constitution, which can be said is the same for all private entities.

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:26 AM by getreadyalready

reply to post by Rockpuck

This segregation came about due to the civil war!

No, it came about through slavery and the ideologies of racial superiority, however it was not until blacks were free could they try and join a lodge.. hence it being after the Civil War.

It had to do with being "free-born". That was a legitimate issue up until a few decades ago. We don't have anyone who was not free-born around today, so it should not be an issue, but some of the old-timers don't want to break tradition.

See my earlier post, in Florida we are mandated by the Grand Lodge to admit all races!

There are serious repercussions if we do not follow that mandate, and EEO guidelines.

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:45 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by getreadyalready

I believe it was the same where I was raised.. I have no idea about the state of Oregon though. But I completely understand the issue with the old guys, they pretty much object to any and everything anyways.. except dinner.

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 01:46 PM by Mintwithahole.

reply to post by Rockpuck

So, lets put this simply. Can a black guy join the very lodge, an ordinary lodge not a prince hall lodge, which you frequent?
A simple one word answer will suffice. . .

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 01:49 PM by getreadyalready

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Rockpuck

So, lets put this simply. Can a black guy join the very lodge, an ordinary lodge not a prince hall lodge, which you frequent?
A simple one word answer will suffice. . .

Yes. As long as he meets all the same requirements, believes in 1 all powerful being, passes his background check, and pays his dues!

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 02:00 PM by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Rockpuck

So, lets put this simply. Can a black guy join the very lodge, an ordinary lodge not a prince hall lodge, which you frequent?
A simple one word answer will suffice. . .

Yes. As long as he meets all the same requirements, believes in 1 all powerful being, passes his background check, and pays his dues!

Oh right. I stand corrected then. I thought that there was a segregation in place which said that black guys had to join the princes hall and not the ordinary lodge.

reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 02:07 PM by Rockpuck

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Rockpuck

So, lets put this simply. Can a black guy join the very lodge, an ordinary lodge not a prince hall lodge, which you frequent?
A simple one word answer will suffice. . .

Yes. As long as he passes the regular requirements of all Freemasons, there is no objection. (cannot be a one word answer, one line responses..)

EDIT to add I see someone already answered and said the exact same thing as me haha.. The notion of segregation comes from America's segregated past.. now it's simply tradition. I don't hear much complaining from either side that they want that changed. Freemasonry is of course still predominantly white, though not because we bar minorities from joining.

[edit on 7/23/2009 by Rockpuck]

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 08:19 AM by Mintwithahole.

reply to post by Rockpuck

The notion of segregation comes from America's segregated past.. now it's simply tradition. I don't hear much complaining from either side that they want that changed.

Well being British I understand tradition but I can't believe that black freemasons are happy being treated, in a traditional sense, in the same way their ancestors were. Here in Liverpool they have mounted a plaque saying sorry for our cities part in the slave trade. Surely as time progresses things should (and have to the greater degree) get better so why does freemasonry continue, even if it is only to keep up tradition, to have a princes hall lodge? Why not just unite the lodges?

reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 08:27 AM by getreadyalready

reply to post by Mintwithahole.

Well being British I understand tradition but I can't believe that black freemasons are happy being treated, in a traditional sense, in the same way their ancestors were. Here in Liverpool they have mounted a plaque saying sorry for our cities part in the slave trade. Surely as time progresses things should (and have to the greater degree) get better so why does freemasonry continue, even if it is only to keep up tradition, to have a princes hall lodge? Why not just unite the lodges?

I think uniting the lodges is a good idea as well! I don't think it will ever happen, but as long as the teachings are the same, I think it would do a lot to stimulate the fraternity!

I don't like your city's plaque though. I refuse to apologize for slavery. It wasn't me, and like it or not, the majority of the slaves in the slave trade were taken advantage of by their own people first! Plus, not all slaves were black. Many were chinese, indian, white, and others! Our civil war was not about slavery, it was about state's rights, just like the next one is about to be! So, let the slavery issue die on both sides. We have black governors, presidents, mayors, professors, CEO's, football coaches, and everything else! No more excuses, no more apologies!

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