Couple gets prison time for Internet obscenity

reply to post by trace_the_truth


If there's no actual 12 year olds, then. well.. Whats the crime? A crime should always have a direct victim.

Has the judge ever been on the internet before?

He probably just hasn't seen enough horrifying material to become desensitized like the majority of people. I mean I've seen some terrible things on here, you've all seen them too, although some will pretend like it didn't happen... if only this were true.

As long as there's no law being broken (ie; minors, genuine rape or assault, etc) you can chalk it up to freedom of expression. If you don't like it, don't look at it, simple as that!

Glad to see so many folks agree that this is a First Amendment issue. As one poster stated: if there's no victim, there's no crime. And as another stated: if you don't like it, don't look at it. Thank you all for the replies, (and stars and flags, where applicable).


TA

[edit on 4-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

Is this not another way of the powers that be in the US, trying to control what you watchover the internet?

Wasnt there a article that the Us Gov were trying to put controls inorder to stop sites such as those that are avalable on the internet not tobe accessed.

Child porn = bad
bestiality = bad
rape = bad

Consenting adults doing whatever consenting adults want to do and, hey this is America, charging money for others to see = not even remotely a big deal.

Some people just really really need to lighten up. If you are so intent on saving the world, look elsewhere. Porn (with only consenting adults, of course) is as old as people, I'd imagine, and it is here to stay.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I won't be shedding any tears for this couple. Although I have no strong opinion either way concerning them receiving a prison sentence, in the very least they should have been given a cease and desist order and ask to take their material down.

Free speech is invaluable but not when it exploits or dehumanizes a group of people. I really couldn't care less if the actresses in the material were involved voluntarily. It's still sick and turns a very serious and life shattering crime into an act of entertainment.

I do not think such things should be allowed and am sick and tired of women being portrayed as victims or sexual objects without feelings. Or worse, individuals getting off on the pain of rape victims, simulated or not.

Call me the thought police or what not. I don't really care. The fact is, if it was any other demographic portrayed in this light as in a dehumanizing manner for the entertainment of others (let's say a simulation of a black man's hanging), even if the participants were on a volunteer basis, I'd be equally disgusted. This stuff has got to stop.

Originally posted by shortywarn
my girl has all those girly mags laying around,,,, and i was on the toilet and picked one up,,,,,
and,,,, one of the top womens fantasy is a rape fantasy


do not tons of animals do this all day long,,, how many are doing it right now???

and remember it was "simulated" not some poor women on the subway or such


should we arrest movie actors for portraying hitler and the germans in war movies,,, i mean they burned people alive ,,, that's sick


like said earlier,,, a bad precedent this will set and can become a very slippery slope

hmm,

www.psychologytoday.com...

Safety in all ways. Most women who have rape fantasies, only do so when they know that safety is never in question. But, their are women who were sexually abused when growing up, and have sexual problems, who do have rape fantasies. The psychology of this is still being studied.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by trace_the_truth

 

If there's no actual 12 year olds, then. well.. Whats the crime? A crime should always have a direct victim.

Read the law and you'll understand why I called distributing teen porn with actors who look 12 to be a questionable activity.

18 U.S.C. § 2256 defines “Child pornography” as:

“any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where -

* (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

* (B) such visual depiction is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

* (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or

* (D) such visual depiction is advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression that the material is or contains a visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct

reply to post by AshleyD


I agree, so I gave you a star.

Harm None
Peace

I've watched porn, i believe most people have...

BUT...

It seems porn is becoming far more extreme as of late. Who is to say these women ARE concenting to sex, it's not like a hooker can file a law suit against a large production company is it?

Also the fact remians, pornography is easily available and sadly some of the more extreme acts will be copied by people who have viewed them.

Sadly, if this trend continues then i can imagine harm coming to a lot of people who have been coerced into the more hardcore types of pornography.

Who is to say that the women and men involved in some of the scenes won't commit suicide or go insane years later when relatives or work mates find out about their activities.

Also, despite my dislike of censorship i do believe that their should be some limits on what is viewable by people, not because i like telling people what to do, but imagine if you found videos of your sister or daughter engaging in acts with half a dozen men or doing things that they would never dream of doing, except for the fact that a large cash sum is usually paid to keep these people quiet.

Also just do a little research into the pornography business of eastern europe, south america and the like. You will see people being abused, or forced into making agreements to make a bit of money.

How about rich white boys travelling to India and basically pimping out pretty little slum girls?

Basically what i'm trying to say is: A nasty trend of abuse is growing, where women feel bribed into doing all sorts of nasty stuff just for a quick little earner. This IS exploitation. For a moderate amount of money, these women will be prostituted out....

Do you people not think their self esteem can be ruined by this? Have you any idea of the amount of women (and men) who have commited suicide as a result of their activities in REGULAR porn.

What about the 'consenting' adults who get into the really nasty stuff (coprophilia, beastiality, urine drinking etc)

Would any sane person willingly do this? Who is to say what happens on camera is agreed off camera? There are lots of videos on the internet of drunk girls getting used by several men. How would you people feel if this was your sister or daughter?

Seriously, we are becoming too depraved.... and i consider myself fairly liberal...

Rape is a truly despicable act.

However, I would far rather those who fantasize about that sort of thing take care of those urges by getting off to depictions of rape made by consenting adults, than for them to go out and commit said acts.

If the women in the porn in question didn't consent, charges should be filed. However, if they knew what they were getting into and decided to do it anyway, then nobody should be allowed to tell them they can't.

I don't believe that what people view encourages them to emulate the acts. That's based on the assumption that people are morons who can't think for themselves and will thoughtlessly emulate everything they see done. My all time favorite movie is 'A Clockwork Orange' but I don't go around imitating Alex and his droogs.

Adults have the right to a fantasy life and the right to depict and even profit from the depiction of that fantasy life. This is a Freedom of Speech/Expression issue. I'm sure I wouldn't like gay porn, but that doesn't give me the right to tell someone he can't make it.


TA

Edit: thanks for the replies, everyone

[edit on 4-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

reply to post by trace_the_truth

* (B) such visual depiction is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

You have a point on the ambiguity of the child pornography laws. The above paragraph could certainly be interpreted several ways. However I believe that the current interpretation is that an actual minor is involved in the appearance of a sexual act. As opposed to an individual that appears to be a minor involved in a sexual act. The difference is subtle but a difference that has, so far, kept the American Pie type movies from being classified as child porn.

Edit to add:

It seems the couple wasn't even charged under child pornography laws. They were most likely charged under even more vague Statutes that define fines and prison sentences for obscene material. However the statutes themselves do very little to define what is "obscene".

I feel strongly that if we are going to support legislation in the name of protection then it is our job to ensure that such legislation is written unambiguously without room for misinterpretation.

Check out the federal Obscenity statutes here



[edit on 4-7-2009 by harvib]

So when do they start arresting all of Hollywood for doing the exact same thing in every B movie slasher flick? Friday the 13th anyone? Teens at a lake , having sex, and murdered, while having sex in some cases. If I was their lawyer, I would just play that movie front to back.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by ShiftTrio]

reply to post by harvib

I feel strongly that if we are going to support legislation in the name of protection then it is our job to ensure that such legislation is written unambiguously without room for misinterpretation.

Well stated. These laws are outdated and should be taken off the books, but failing that, they need concrete boundaries and guidelines. Leaving the definition of 'obscene' so vague makes these laws subject to abuse such as arbitrary enforcement.

I think this is what happened in this case. According to one of the posters in the first article, the woman responsible for bringing charges against these people is going to run for a higher political position than she is currently in. I think that has a lot more to do with why these charges were filed than what type of porn these people produced.


TA

Originally posted by AshleyD
I'm going to go against the grain here and say I won't be shedding any tears for this couple. Although I have no strong opinion either way concerning them receiving a prison sentence, in the very least they should have been given a cease and desist order and ask to take their material down.

Free speech is invaluable but not when it exploits or dehumanizes a group of people. I really couldn't care less if the actresses in the material were involved voluntarily. It's still sick and turns a very serious and life shattering crime into an act of entertainment.

I do not think such things should be allowed and am sick and tired of women being portrayed as victims or sexual objects without feelings. Or worse, individuals getting off on the pain of rape victims, simulated or not.

Call me the thought police or what not. I don't really care. The fact is, if it was any other demographic portrayed in this light as in a dehumanizing manner for the entertainment of others (let's say a simulation of a black man's hanging), even if the participants were on a volunteer basis, I'd be equally disgusted. This stuff has got to stop.

This is what i dont get.

How can you make distinctions here between race and sex when it comes to this, for instance:
"I do not think such things should be allowed and am sick and tired of women being portrayed as victims or sexual objects without feelings"


You clearly let your bias as a woman get in the way of your thinking. Men get exploited, stereotyped, and degraded every day just as much as women do, especially in the entertainment field. Dont say they dont because if you truly believe they dont then your eyes are more closed then you realize. Men are constantly portrayed as victims, and as thoughtless sex-driven animals. BUt its different, somehow if its a woman?? how is a woman being stereotyped as a sex object any different than a man being steretyped as a sex fiend? you say in the closing part that any demographic being exploited would make you object, but your opening betrays your bias.
How are you a Mod again...?

And you say you have no strong opinion on whether they should be locked up in prison??? while out of the other side of your mouth you say free speech is invaluable??
While i am not defending the idea that watching a simulated rape sounds like a great time for family fun, you also have to realize that this stuff isnt being broadcast on PBS or hell, even FOX. People who are looking for this stuff find it, and those that wander across it will often be warned or given an idea of what is to come. think bout it if someone produced a video like this would they not , market it as such in order to reach their demographic??

reply to post by kidney thief

You clearly let your bias as a woman get in the way of your thinking. Men get exploited, stereotyped, and degraded every day just as much as women do, especially in the entertainment field.

You are jumping to many conclusions and are using a tactic which makes the reader think the previous poster is completely unconcerned with another group. Which is not remotely true since 50% of the people in my life I love more than myself are men. If this thread was purely male focused- I'd 100% be outspoken about their exploitation. If you want to hear my thoughts about male exploitation then ask or send me a link to the appropriate thread. It is very dishonest when someone accuses a poster of not caring about every single aspect of a subject just because they focus on one. If you want to know my opinion on male exploitation- just ask.

However, I do agree with you that men can be exploited in the porn industry. Please don't assume things just because I don't cover all aspects of this specific subject. I cut my comment short instead of saying everything I wanted to, which would have resulted in a novel. Because the people in question were arrested for lewdness depicting female rape, that is obviously what bothered me so much and why I took up for the females. So don't use that tactic and assume I don't care about the men because I do. But they are not the ones being depicted as victims while the viewer gets off on their torment.

But you are right- men get exploited an villainized as careless criminals in simulated porn rape. Sorry about that. I wasn't intentionally forgetting them- I was a victim of a sexual crime so I generally get emotional as a female from the female perspective. It's not bias like you claim. It's called striking a nerve.

You assumed and you assumed wrong.

How are you a Mod again...?

I forgot we're not allowed to have opinions. An opinion you misunderstood and distorted, nonetheless.

And you say you have no strong opinion on whether they should be locked up in prison???

No sorry. I really don't. I'm aware that is a HIGHLY unpopular opinion around these parts but I still will admit to it without being ashamed. Those people were profiting by exploiting others, not caring about the consequences of their actions- just as long as they make a buck. If it was something like 60 years I might be more concerned, but a year (which they won't even serve the full extent of) might let them rethink how they do things and how it affects others.

Like I said, I think they simply should have received a cease and desist order and be required to take down their previous material but I just can't see myself losing any sleep for people who exploit others and glorify a criminal act. I'm sorry, truly, you and the people who starred your post to me have no problem with it.

[edit on 7/4/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire

Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience and apologies if this thread dredged up any memories you would rather have forgotten.


Sincerely,


TA

reply to post by AshleyD


Well I for one agree with you.

Read my above post. It disturbs me to know that this stuff occurs and is getting more extreme.

The thing is... Every porn site has to 'better' the last one with one little step further towards the extreme. What is it going to be like in twenty years time? I dread....

Seriously, the more i look at some parts of accepted norms, the more i can see us getting desensitized to what would have been shocking only ten or twenty years ago. I seriously think it's becoming a very ugly manifestation of the desires of our primal urges and it seems very little is sacred in a decadent society such as our own.

How much humanity do we have left?

The porn industry might be fine in some of the more glamourised circles, such as high flying mainstream types, all this is clean and controlled stuff.... But my arguement about the darker side of porn is a valid point...

Some of the stuff out there is very dark and although there will be people out there who will defend it and argue their cases, nothing excuses the trafficking of humans, the human market and the use of drugs on unwilling 'stars'.

Seriously if some of you people think it's all harmless fun, then you are ignorant.

double post please remove.

Sorry.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by mr-lizard]

reply to post by mr-lizard


There's an episode of Penn and Teller's colorfully titled show you should watch entitled 'The War on Porn.' If I'm not mistaken, it's season 6. It covers most of the concerns you seem to have about porn. Before you start with the blanket insults, especially the label of 'ignorant,' educate yourself on both sides of the subject first.


TA


[edit on 4-7-2009 by TheAssociate]