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The role of the Credit Reporting Agencies in the destruction of America

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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I did not see your answer to why I'm being offered more pre-approved credit relentlessly when I am unemployed. If you answered I must have missed it, in that case my apology.


First, you can opt out of credit card offers. I did years ago, and never receive these solicitations in the mail. Ever.

Go here:

www.ftc.gov...

Pretty easy to opt out. Public information. Easy to find - First hit on Google when you type in key words like "opt out + credit cards".

Why do big banks like Chase, Citigroup, etc. send credit card offers to unemployed people? First, they probably don't know you are unemployed, and second, based on your credit history and whatever demographic information that they know about you, you qualify as a candidate for their "ideal customer" profile according to their market research.

Big deal. You get credit card offers in the mail from big banks. So what?

I get pizza coupons in the mail, too. But I don't start a thread about how all the pizza companies are evil and out to get our money and what an evil system pizza companies are!!

(By the way, what on earth do credit card offers have to do with credit reporting agencies, which is the main subject of this thread??)

Credit card offers come from the big banks typically Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, etc. No one here - including myself - has ever advocated for these big boys. In fact, I have criticized them extensively in this very thread!



Debt is a trap NOT a tool.


Millions of Americans benefit from the credit system in this country. Just ask any business owner.

Debt is definitely a trap to individuals that abuse credit and overextend themselves. For mature, responsible individuals that know how to use credit intelligently, credit is a convenient tool when managed properly.



Why encourage caution in assuming debt?


Why did I advise caution when using credit? Because too many Americans are totally ignorant when it comes to financial matters, and never take the time to educate themselves on how to use credit wisely. They are ignorant beyond belief - Running up huge credit card debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt, car debt, etc.

And it's a choice. No one ever put a gun to someone's head and made them take out a debt.

We have major issues with people borrowing way beyond their means in this country, and then these same individuals arrogantly strike out and blame banks, credit reporting agencies, and creditors for their bad decision-making!

It's not my fault people make poor decisions, or that their parents never took the time to educate their children on debt and finance matters. I feel sorry for these people - I genuinely do. It's pretty pathetic, though, when you see people failing to take responsibility for their actions.

Dave Ramsey estimates that the average family - with concerted effort and discipline - can clear up most personal debt (aside from a home mortgage) in 2-3 years if they really attack their personal debt and live below their means. That means sacrifice, and determination. Most Americans are too lazy to even try to get out of debt.



Because it supports the enslavement of every individual on this planet in one way or another. Encourage consumers to live beyond their means with advertising and marketing and whatever it is you are doing here on this thread. Advocating debt.


You obviously can't read. What I am advocating is responsible decision-making, and using credit wisely and with due care. Don't lie and twist my words.

I am not advocating debt - I am advocating responsible use of debt and living below one's means.

Excessive debt is very much like slavery. But we don't have debt prisons in this country. Most people just file bankruptcy.

Who's fault is it? Does the borrower deserve any blame for overextending themselves?

How do you explain the Americans that DON'T get into debt?




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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Irresponsible business and government are the problem, not the consumer who has been lambasted with false advertising and small print, terrible customer service and evasive tactics.


Oh, and here all along I thought it was the credit reporting agencies and banks' fault. Now it's the government and businesses. Which is it? Do you even know?



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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"Your banker has the ability to drastically influence the success of your business. It is very important that you develop long-term, personal relationships with them -- if you do that, when you hit the inevitable bumps in the road, they'll be there to help you."

Keith Lowe, Entrepreneur.com



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09



Irresponsible business and government are the problem, not the consumer who has been lambasted with false advertising and small print, terrible customer service and evasive tactics.


Oh, and here all along I thought it was the credit reporting agencies and banks' fault. Now it's the government and businesses. Which is it? Do you even know?


You are probably a very nice person. I'm not attacking you personally just so you know. I have opinions as you do. But you seem to have lost your composure once you were convinced I was not buying into your "informative lecture".



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust
How the scam works.

- The central bank gives money to big brother
- Big brother gives money to little brother
- Little brother gives money to consumers

- If consumers attempt to stop giving money to little brother, little brother resorts to extortion by using of the credit reporting agencies and/or the legal system against consumers.

- Big brother threatens little brother with expulsion from the system if little brother fails to successfully dominate consumers.

- The central bank bribes big brother to protect itself from little brother and consumers.

- Knowledgable little brothers and consumers within the system own pieces of big brother and know how to manipulate the entire system to thier advantage.

The credit agencies favor the central bank, big brother and little brother in said order.

Consumers are totally dominated by the credit monster. Those consumers who maintain good credit become puppet mouth pieces who support the monster. The system is inheirently designed to be devisive and self destructive in nature, beacuse people are separated into castes that can be easily controlled by each successive order above it. The model is designed to centralize control of society into the hands of the few. The power is effectively removed from the masses and the entire society is effectively put into bondage as everyone feels powerless to do anything.

It is this system of societal domination that breeds an environment that encourages the breakdown of traditional family values and beliefs. The only thing that becomes important is worshipping the central bank as GOD. This effectively elevates the few who control the central bank to the status of GODS. It is they that have the power to create and destroy. It is obvious that thier intentions are hostile towards the entire human race.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]


Where did you go OP? I really wanted to hear more about your perspective on this thread because I happen to agree with you. Oh weel. CookieMonster09 has stolen the show.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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You are probably a very nice person. I'm not attacking you personally just so you know. I have opinions as you do. But you seem to have lost your composure once you were convinced I was not buying into your "informative lecture".


I don't buy the argument that consumers can't empower themselves and manage their credit properly. I manage my credit responsibly, as do most of my friends, colleagues, and clients.

I have tried, patiently, in this thread to give sound counter-arguments and straightforward discussion on the relevant topic at hand.

All I have received so far in return has been these absolutely ridiculous, sweeping, slanderous accusations against an entire industry - None of which have been argued in a rational, objective manner.

Ridiculous statements such as "Banks create money out of thin air", and "Credit Reporting Agencies are Evil", "Credit enslaves people", etc. No proof, no sound logic, no rational explanation.

Now, I can perfectly understand that money matters are "emotional" issues.

It's emotionally painful to deal with negative credit items on one's credit report, especially in the case of identity theft. It's hard to go through a divorce and have a spouse trash your credit through fraudulent means. It's hard to have a serious medical issue and have difficulty paying the bills.

However, this has NOTHING to do with banking or creditors or credit reporting agencies! These are personal issues that the majority of Americans face sometime in their lifetimes. Those that act responsibly bounce back and take proactive action to correct the situation.

Americans need to stop blaming banks, creditors, and credit reporting agencies, and take responsibility for living too high on the hog for way too long.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09



You are probably a very nice person. I'm not attacking you personally just so you know. I have opinions as you do. But you seem to have lost your composure once you were convinced I was not buying into your "informative lecture".


I don't buy the argument that consumers can't empower themselves and manage their credit properly. I manage my credit responsibly, as do most of my friends, colleagues, and clients.

I have tried, patiently, in this thread to give sound counter-arguments and straightforward discussion on the relevant topic at hand.

All I have received so far in return has been these absolutely ridiculous, sweeping, slanderous accusations against an entire industry - None of which have been argued in a rational, objective manner.

Ridiculous statements such as "Banks create money out of thin air", and "Credit Reporting Agencies are Evil", "Credit enslaves people", etc. No proof, no sound logic, no rational explanation.

Now, I can perfectly understand that money matters are "emotional" issues.

It's emotionally painful to deal with negative credit items on one's credit report, especially in the case of identity theft. It's hard to go through a divorce and have a spouse trash your credit through fraudulent means. It's hard to have a serious medical issue and have difficulty paying the bills.

However, this has NOTHING to do with banking or creditors or credit reporting agencies! These are personal issues that the majority of Americans face sometime in their lifetimes. Those that act responsibly bounce back and take proactive action to correct the situation.

Americans need to stop blaming banks, creditors, and credit reporting agencies, and take responsibility for living too high on the hog for way too long.


CookieMonster09, I did not say any of those things in my post.

My opinion is that credit/debt is not a good thing for anyone except business and government. That is my opinion. I have excellent credit and use the system wisely. I am not off the grid because the system is much too difficult to navigate unless you are. That is the whole point of my dissatisfaction. The choice has been taken away.

Stupid, irresponsible consumers are the prized prey of these outfits (doesn't matter what label you apply).



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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Stupid, irresponsible consumers are the prized prey of these outfits (doesn't matter what label you apply).


No, that's not true either. Wrong again.

Banks make a ton more money off of customers with good credit, and strong pay history. Banks can also cross-sell these AAA clients with additional services, making the credit relationship even more profitable. They can turn a credit card client into a residential mortgage client, for example.

They make much, much LESS money from customers with poor credit that default on their loans and go into collection.

It is VERY, VERY expensive to hire attorneys ($150-$300 per hour) to sue borrowers that default. Not to mention the loss of not only the potential interest that could have been earned. Many times, creditors lose the whole principal balance as well.

If a borrower stiffs a creditor for $10,000, the bank or creditor loses the $10,000 PLUS legal costs, collection costs, etc. It is very, very pricey for a creditor or bank.

What about real estate? Some banks lent money to borrowers that defaulted. Even with a 20% down payment, the real estate values have plummeted up to 35-40% in this country. Banks get hurt big time by clients that default.

How exactly is this desirable business for the banks again?

Banks strongly desire AAA clients, with good pay history, and strong credit. They avoid at all costs extending credit to clients with bad credit. That's why we have title pawn companies (150% interest annually), pay day lenders, and the like. These are the predatory lenders that prey on clients with bad credit - Not banks.

Compare this to a long-term good credit customer that pays religiously every month and never misses a payment. Much, much more profitable.

Prove me wrong. I am all ears.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by CookieMonster09]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


My motive is not to prove you wrong. My motive was responding to the title of the OP with my personal, unique, individual, opinion. You were answering everyone's post with such authority and support for the "system" that I question your motives. Not that it matters. It seems everyone else has lost interest. Pun intended.

Credit reporting agencies and the intricate workings are apparently your expertise. I'm just a humble consumer with an opinion that nothing you have said so far can change. Living on credit/debt is harmful to the "consumer" even if they are responsible and live within their means.

Why are you so upset with me? I'm not the one who made any of those statements that riled you up.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Why are you so upset with me?


Don't mistake straightforward discussion with being upset. I just don't appreciate some of the clearly false statements that both you, and others have made on this thread.

Banks don't want bad credit customers. They don't look at their clients as "chumps" as one poster said earlier in the thread. There has been so much misinformation on this thread, I find it staggering. Don't take it personal. If others have left this thread, fine. I am here to talk facts, and truth, not disseminate lies and false information. Some people can't handle straight talk.



Living on credit/debt is harmful to the "consumer" even if they are responsible and live within their means.


How so? Just because you say so? Most people that are responsible with their credit enjoy living in a nicer home, or driving a newer car, etc. - provided they don't abuse credit and overextend themselves. It's when they get in over their heads that credit becomes a problem.

Funny how no one complains about "credit" and "banks" when they are enjoying their materialistic, credit-financed lifestyle in the good times. It's only when they can't afford to pay anymore that they raise such a ruckus. Those darn banks!

As I have stated earlier, it appears that there is a misconception that borrowers don't benefit from credit. They benefit enormously. If it weren't for credit, most businesses couldn't operate, and most people wouldn't have gainful employment.



My motive is not to prove you wrong.


Diverting the issue doesn't answer the question - It simply proves my point. Noted.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut

Where did you go OP?


I'm still here. Been busy this week. Haven't had alot of spare time.


I still have to catch up on some of cookies prior posts.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa

I have only been able to obtain a credit report from one of the three credit reporting agencies. The other two would ask me questions about accounts that I had never had in order to verify my identity. Because I could not answer the questions, I could not verify my identity. Because I could not verify my identity, two of the agencies would never even talk to me about my credit reporting account.

The one I was able to get a report from, I found numerous errors. I disputed them online. The online form gave you a very limited amount of characters to tell your side. I disputed the errors. Within a few weeks, I received a letter from this agency claiming they verified these debts. Because I disputed the debts (the date on the report indicated these were a few years old) and they were somehow verified, they reset the statute of limitations on these debts and they will now stay on my file for years.


They really aren't very user friendly are they. I think that they really just do the bare minimum that they have to in order to claim that they complied with the law.



I have been a lot less stressed over it since I stopped fighting it.


I think that thier goal is to break your spirit, by giving you a false sense of hope. The reality is that if you don't play thier game in at least a minimum sort of way then you are pretty much shut out of the system all together. They know the rules and only share the rule book with those that they like.

If you have operated outside of thier system from early on they make it more difficult on you later. They assume that you are tainted or diseased.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Life is better without things... I have less but in the end i'll have more and OWN what I have...

Replaced my Car Payment for a Bucket of bolts with a good engine that cost e what i'd pay per month otherwise...

and i'm happier, safer... better

What else can I say

Taking money from them is like... letting the Devil into your home...



Nothing wrong with living within your means.

When you deal with people that create money out of thin air you are dealing with the devil. They offer you whatever your heart desires and then hold your nose in the contract and tell you it was all your idea.

Best to stay clear.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Credit has to be used with due care. The borrower is truly servant to the lender, that much is true.


Neither a borrower, nor a lender be.

Remember that one?

Borrowing money is akin to putting yourself into indentured servitude, which means that lenders are the slave masters and thier agents are the overseers for thier master.

I put credit reporting agencies in the same catagory as overseers for the slave overlords. They are one of the means by which the slave overlords maintain thier power. The eyes and ears of the master.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED

Some want you to build up a high credit debt after they hire you because its less likely you will quit if you are up to your neck in debt.


Once you are in finacial debt they are able to assert more control over your life. THey use the fear of loss against you to keep your throat under thier boot.

When they give you an order you are more likely to obey it without second thought and less likely to question thier actions.

Too much debt and too little direction over your own life will almost always lead to your eventual destruction, as your usefulness to thier ambitions disipates.


[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Dave Ramsey has NO credit score. You don't need a credit score if you pay everything with cash anyways.


He's a multi-millionaire he doesn't need credit.

Got to love the self proclaimed gurus.


I do agree with one thing that he says. Live within your means, pay cash and dump your existing debt as fast as you can once you've woken up to how they are using you.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Honestly, how is this the fault of the credit reporting agencies?



Because they don't make it easy for people to clean up thier messes.

Let me re-phase that.

They don't make it easy for poor, unconnected or under educated people to clean up thier messes.

Cookie I have to wonder if you aren't actually a shill for the credit reporting agencies. Your motives and the veracity for which you defend, the all noble credit reporting agaencies, are suspect.


How do you sleep at night knowing that you are defending a totally dis-functional financial system that only favors the few at the top?

[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Every example cited here in this discussion has been about very subjective, isolated human events and interactions involving people with trashed credit due to divorce, etc. Hello? How is that the fault of the credit reporting agencies? All they are doing is reporting credit information.


I'm not seeing too many here that are cheerleading the credit industry besides yourself.

The whole credit bubble is operating on a double standard. Free money and forgiveness for those at the top who are screwups. No money and continued blame for those at the bottom.

Me? I'm impartial, I hate everybody. I just report the facts as I see them.




[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by mblahnikluver

Another thing that drives me nuts about the credit bureaus is how now most jobs require a check of your credit! Now how in the world does that show what kind of worker you would be?


It just gives them some insight on how much control they might have over you.

Insurance companies pull credit reports now as well. They claim it is to indicate people who are higher risks. I just say it indicates people who are not connected enough, educated enough or rich enough to clear out thier credit report and are easy marks to make more money off of.

Proven guppies who can be manipulated for gain.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by habu71
reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


Those that fall into the medical, job or otherwise category had no intention or desire to fall behind....THe fico system is slanted towards the banks, as in 2 months, you can destroy your fico score, but after you regain a job and begin paying back, it takes months and years to regain that score....


Good point.

There is no reasonable safety net for the people, just consequences.



A question for discussion......why should a non regulated algorithm (fico) be used without regulator approval for regulated financial institutions?


Seems like if the government controls the bank that prints the money and loans it out, collects the taxes and floats the finacial markets as it sees fit then they should also regulate how debts are recorded and scores are determined.

But then again denyability is the watchword of the century isn't it.

A lack of total visible control over the entire system validates my theory here.

"Int'l bankers attempting to destroy America - NWO - 9/11 - Federal Reserve - Smoking gun"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just who is running this pop stand anyways?


[edit on 9-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



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