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The role of the Credit Reporting Agencies in the destruction of America

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posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


Those that fall into the medical, job or otherwise category had no intention or desire to fall behind....THe fico system is slanted towards the banks, as in 2 months, you can destroy your fico score, but after you regain a job and begin paying back, it takes months and years to regain that score....

A question for discussion......why should a non regulated algorithm (fico) be used without regulator approval for regulated financial institutions?




posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


Oh its not difficult!?! HAAA! That was funn..It took me years to get two things off my credit and in the mean time they still charged me every month for late fees. I did EVERYTHING that was asked and they did nothing each time by ignoring my calls and emails, telling me they "never got it," and crap like that. Tell that to the many people I know right now fighting these places to get things like this removed. I am happy that I dont have to deal with these places anymore but I feel for those who do because I have been there and it was opposite of heaven believe me.

Sorry if I seem like I am attacking you but it's just not that easy IMO.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Actually it's kind of a pain in the a$$. You must deal with every credit agency separatly.


You're entitled to that opinion. I don't think it's that big of a deal. I have had numerous clients contest credit issues with the credit reporting agencies, and it's never been a problem. It's only a problem if the borrower is trying to deceive the credit reporting agency.

Does it take time? Sure. Then hire an attorney or a credit repair specialist. Fine. Is identity theft a problem? Sure. Why don't you freeze your credit or take some other defensive actions like placing credit alerts on your credit reports?



They all report different errors for the same information.


Again, this is a subjective, individual experience. In general, the same creditors will show up on all 3 credit bureaus.



When you file a dispute the credit reporting agencies are suppossed to verfiy the validity of the information. My understanding is that basically all they do is ask the reporting subscribing business if they are reporting the information correctly.


No, they conduct an investigation into the facts. They might contact the creditor, for instance, and ask to see a copy of the contract you signed. Upon proof of a signed contract, they then may elect to deny your claim. If it's fraud, then you need to file a police report.

In the case of identity theft, then you may have to hire an attorney. That's not a lot of fun, but welcome to the real world.



You are assumed to be guilty and the burden of proof is on the one who's credit is being reported. There is no apology or restitution for the victim of a business that erroniously reports data.......So you need to spend your time in a non-productive letter writing campaign to raise your credit score a few measly points. What a complete waste of every ones time and resources.

Yes, it is up to you to make sure that your credit report is accurate. After all, it's your credit and you are the only one that directly benefits from having a clean credit report. If your credit report is inaccurate, it's up to you to take corrective action. That's what responsible, mature adults do: They take ownership of their problems. Sometimes that means doing things that you might not want to do. Cry me a river.



The state or local municipulties can file claims on your credit for stuff like tax liens, traffic tickets, and miscellanious fines and such. They don't even have to be right. They just have to make a quick claim against your credit and boom now you have to deal with 9am-4pm 4 day work week fat fannie at the DMV or some such to clear your credit as well as your issue. Maybe the legal industry should start targeting the credit reporting agencies and thier subscribers with some class action lawsuits.


Let's see. Is there human error by the tax authorities? Yes, I suppose that is possible. How often does it occur? Probably less than 5% of the population has had a tax lien filed against them in error.

You act like there is some conspiracy by tax authorities and law enforcement to just randomly tag people with negative credit items. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can guarantee you that law enforcement has plenty of other things to do.

Do human errors occur? Yes, I guess they do from time to time. What's the big deal? Over the last 10 years, I can think of only 1 instance where I have had an issue with a billing error on an electric bill. Even then, given that it was a rental property, I could have been the one in error.



I believe that there is a third party verification company, why don't you tell us about that Cookie.


I have no idea what you're referring to. Please explain.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Another thing that drives me nuts about the credit bureaus is how now most jobs require a check of your credit! Now how in the world does that show what kind of worker you would be?

As I stated earlier, if you are in a sensitive position handling cash, a person with bad credit could be perceived as being tempted to steal from the till. Anyone in a sensitive position handling cash will normally have a credit check, background check, even fingerprints taken - before getting hired. This is pretty standard fare.

If you owned a company, would you want a known deadbeat with bad credit and a criminal background handing cash in your business? I didn't think so either.

Does a company need to use good judgment in these matters when using credit reports to evaluate prospective employees? Yes. Do they? Some do, some don't. So what?



THe fico system is slanted towards the banks, as in 2 months, you can destroy your fico score, but after you regain a job and begin paying back, it takes months and years to regain that score....


If you know what you're doing, it takes weeks or months to improve your score, not years. It just takes a little bit of reading to learn how to improve your credit score - And I mean legitimately, not under fraudulent pretenses.



It took me years to get two things off my credit and in the mean time they still charged me every month for late fees.


I am sorry that you had this experience with your CREDITOR, which you CHOSE to do business with. Maybe you should be more selective about who you do business with.

Again, this has nothing to do with the credit reporting agencies.

Here's an anecdotal story: I had a client, a successful home repair business, whose owner had a collection item on his credit report. He had it removed and straightened out in less than a week. True story. Personal experience.

We can play the anecdotal story all night if you like. It still doesn't change the fact that credit reporting agencies report accurate information 95% of the time.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 

Yes my problem was with the bureaus not the places I had the cards through. I think I know who I dealt with the entire time and it was NOT the places I borrowed from it was from Equifax and TransUnion. Believe me it was nightmare and the majority of he people I spoke to were rude and down right nasty to me. The things they said were unreal and all I was trying to do was get it taken care of. They talked to me like I was some piece of trash. One lady even called me back to curse me out and at this point my bf got on the phone. I mean talk about making me feel like the size of a grain of salt!

Again just because some has bad credit or a record doesnt mean they will steal. That is like saying they are guilty before given a chance. I guess I think differently because I am the little people who is never given a fair chance as I see it. I do think yes at some places it might be necessary like a bank but every place even fast food restaurants want a credit check. With peoples debt getting worse how are those who need a job after getting laid off going to find a job now because their credit goes to crap because of the economic hell we are in? I know a few people who are good people this has happened to. It's really bad. Like I said I guess I see it differently because it affected me and people I know and still does..

I will say you are very knowledgeable about this. I wish you were around years ago when I had this problem! It probably wouldnt have taken so long!



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by In nothing we trust
 


how can they take what you dont have? that is my question if I make a welfare check because im layed off from work and I stop makeing payments how can they enforce thoes payments? they can't I have stoped all payments on my credit cards and allmost all my debt they cant garnish my wages because im in the military and I alot my whole check they cant tuch alotments sure i get paid once a month but still it is a small price to pay.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 


Interesting posts. I'm one of those people who never had a credit card, divorced twice, now single, but was always getting behind in bills to the point of collection agencies. I've been on SSDI for about 6 years and have wondered if my (bad credit) history would show bills I didn't ever create.

My thought and hope was that with my bad credit, no one else was able to successfully use my indentity for credit either. Since I've not yet heard of anything, I'm assuming it hasn't happened....yet. And now that it's gotten bad for most everyone else, I have to wonder if it's that much harder to use stolen identities.

I'm still way too paranoid to check my credit report, especially on line.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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It took me years to get two things off my credit and in the mean time they still charged me every month for late fees.


I am sorry to hear about your poor customer service experience. However, based on the quote above, it sounds like this was an issue with the creditor, not the credit reporting agencies. Credit reporting agencies don't charge late fees, creditors do.

It's entirely plausible that you had a creditor that was reporting your credit information unfairly. However, in today's day and age, most of the credit items reported are done electronically, not manually. Creditors don't want customers calling them all the time about mis-reported credit items - It's too much work and it's bad business practice.

I have personally worked at several banks and credit firms for well over a decade, and not once - I kid you not - not once has one of my business customers ever called me to complain that we misreported their credit file to the credit bureau. Again, I think it's a relatively rare occurrence, but I don't doubt that it does happen from time to time.



Believe me it was nightmare and the majority of he people I spoke to were rude and down right nasty to me. The things they said were unreal and all I was trying to do was get it taken care of. They talked to me like I was some piece of trash. One lady even called me back to curse me out and at this point my bf got on the phone. I mean talk about making me feel like the size of a grain of salt!


Again, this is a one-time, subjective experience. Without knowing the entire context of the matter, it's difficult to comment.

The guidelines now for contesting credit items is pretty simple and straightforward - You contest the information online, the agency conducts an investigation by contacting the creditor to obtain additional information, and then you are notified within 30-45 days of the results. It can't get much simpler than that.

Now, if the creditor supplies a copy of a forged contract to the credit reporting agency - Then this is a case of identity theft and fraud. Someone either forged your signature, or the creditor is committing fraud (unusual). No need to get angry and hostile with the credit reporting agencies. Instead, you need to contact an attorney and file a police report. This is now a criminal matter. The credit reporting agency is just doing their job - Verifying that there is legitimate evidence of the reported credit information.



Again just because some has bad credit or a record doesn't mean they will steal. That is like saying they are guilty before given a chance.


No, it means that if they are in a sensitive position handling cash - such as a cashier - there is a higher likelihood that they will steal from the till than someone that has a good credit history. People under financial stress will do the craziest things to obtain money, including theft.

Again, answer my question. If you owned a business, would you want the person handling cash to have a bad credit history and/or a criminal background? Of course not. It would be a bad business decision to do so. It's too risky.

Now, if someone has a legitimate reason for bad credit - such as a medical issue, or a past job loss - then it is the discretion of the employer to make a decision as to whether this person is trustworthy. This is why we have personal interviews, reference checks, criminal background checks and the like. Most people in these cases - medical issues and past job loss - bounce back quickly and can clean up their credit over time. The ones that you have to look out for are the borrowers that stiff their creditors for selfish and criminal reasons.

If you enter into a legal contract with a creditor, and you stiff the creditor, that's on you. No need to blame others if you can't find a job because your credit is trashed. That's why you need to think carefully before you take on debt obligations you can't repay.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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One thing that I want to reiterate: If you stiff a creditor, everyone else has to pay for you. That's right - Everyone else has to pay because you stiffed the creditor.

Take a simple example. You borrow $10,000 on a credit card, and stiff VISA for the bill. VISA now has a loss of $10,000.

How do they make up for the loss?

I'll tell you: They charge higher rates and fees to their existing customers that DO pay. So the clients that have good credit, and pay on time - They get to pay for YOUR misdeeds. Talk about robbing Peter to pay for Paul!

How is that fair? How come no one talks about that? Why should I have to pay more interest because YOU stiffed VISA?

Same thing goes for car loans, bank loans, etc. Someone has to pay for the borrowers that default and the losses that accrue. This is why borrowing money has gotten so expensive - even lately. Lenders are ratcheting up their fees to good paying customers because they have borrowers that have stiffed them. You can't blame the lenders for doing so - They are a business after all trying to make a profit.

People that stiff their creditors hurt the rest of us that do follow the rules and pay our bills on time. It's not fair to those of us that do have good credit. I perfectly understand that things happen - job loss, medical issues, etc. I get that, and I am in sympathy with legitimate reasons for credit issues. But again - if the person has character - after the temporary issue passes, they will rebound fairly quickly and get caught up.

I don't have sympathy for people that mismanage their credit, borrow and live beyond their means, and make the rest of us have to pay for their misdeeds. That's what I take issue with.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

And credit analysts and bankers don't look at their prospective clients as "chumps".




I don't believe that. Actually I don't think they care one way or the other. They are gonna get thiers one way or the other. They loan out money that doesn't exist. Basically people are agreeing to participate in the delusion by agreeing to repay the pretend money back with interest. Now really this doesn't sound all that bad. I mean everyone enjoys a good magic show. Especially if the audience gets to participate in the show.

Everyone wins right. People who like to be on the receiving end get to live off of the backs of other people. Ah, the american dream.
People who like to give, get to borrow money and get to give thier time and labor (Products and services, Talent, etc) in exchange for consideration which they then use to repay thier loan with interest. Some people use thier loans to increase thier place in the world, others sqaunder it and then try and screw those who recieve.

Now the banks get the last laugh because they get thier money guranteed by the government and they get to give out bad marks to those borrowers who squandered thier share of the pretend money. And as a bonus the banks get to feel real smug about how noble they are.

So honestly I don't think the banks give a crap who lives or dies. And actually I believe that they are intentially and willfully working towards the destruction of the United States as a nation of ideas and ideals.

I believe that the banking system sees American consumers as both chumps and an expendable commodity to be used as a means to destroy the country.



... most bankers want to help their clients to obtain their financial goals and see them succeed, not fail. Banks make a ton more money when a client is profitable and financially healthy, not when they are in dire straits and failing.


Contrarary to your own deluded belief, banks and thier agents don't operate in a noble manner. The only plaque hanging on the wall of American corporations, miscelleneous governments, and financial institutions says, "SHORT TERM PROFIT AT ALL COSTS" or if you prefer latin , "Profitus e costus".


They loaned out money to people that could never repay it and now they want a free ride and lay claim to thier noble status in the world.



[edit on 7-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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I don't believe that. Actually I don't think they care one way or the other. They are gonna get thiers one way or the other. They loan out money that doesn't exist. Basically people are agreeing to participate in the delusion by agreeing to repay the pretend money back with interest. Now really this doesn't sound all that bad. I mean everyone enjoys a good magic show. Especially if the audience gets to participate in the show.


Have you ever actually met with a commercial banker in person? How would you know what thousands of bankers think about their clients? What makes you so insightful that you have this overwhelming knowledge about what a whole industry of commercial bankers think of their clientele?

Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

From a business perspective, bankers definitely care about their clients. First, because it's good business. Second, because sophisticated lending relationships involve a ton of interaction between client and banker, and if the banker isn't sincere, the business owner will take their business elsewhere.

Lastly, bankers get compensated based on the profitable relationships that they have cultivated with business owners over many, many years. If the banker is insincere, and doesn't care, the relationship won't be profitable for either party. And there is plenty of competition in the banking world. If you're not the real deal, you won't last in commercial banking for very long.

Most smart businesspeople look at their local banker as an advisor, and appreciate their advice. Why? Because bankers know business. They understand trends in their local community, and have a good pulse on what's happening in the local economy because of their interaction with so many other business owners.

Your false accusations are ridiculously and patently inaccurate.

As I said, bankers get compensated based on the long-term, profitable relationships that they build with their clients. Those relationships are built on trust and are generally long-term in nature.

As far as lending "money that doesn't exist", that's just ludicrous. Have you even read my detailed breakdown earlier about your absolutely ludicrous description of fractional reserve banking?

I can guarantee you that when you go to the closing table at the title company to close on a million dollar purchase of a commercial warehouse, that the banker comes to the table with a bona-fide check of $1 Million.

It's not Monopoly money, it's not play dough - It's a certified check for a million bucks. If it weren't real money, that would be called counterfeiting, which is illegal.

You act as if the borrower receives no benefit from the loan. That's hardly the case. Businesses that borrow money to buy equipment for their company benefit from improved efficiencies and better technology that allows them to hire more employees. Businesses that are growing borrow money to move into larger office space. The banks help them to do so by lending them the money, providing consultation, and doing the due diligence on the real estate property to make sure that the borrower and lender are equally protected in the transaction.

I could go on and on - But bankers are an instrumental part of the economy, and any small business owner will tell you that having a good, experienced banker in their corner is an invaluable asset and highly recommended.

In a loan transaction, it's the bank that is taking all the risk. That's because they are loaning out money up front and may never, ever get repaid. That's why banks do a lot of credit checks, client interviews, and credit investigation to make sure they are lending to reputable borrowers that will repay the loan without issue.

CONTINUED BELOW



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Everyone wins right. People who like to be on the receiving end get to live off of the backs of other people. Ah, the american dream.


Bankers don't live off of the backs of other people. They provide a legitimate service - Capital - to qualified borrowers. They earn a profit like any other business in America.

Most bankers don't live the American dream. Most don't earn six-figure incomes. You must have us confused with business owners, doctors, lawyers, and entrepreneurs. Most bankers don't make a fortune in the banking business, believe me. And many bankers have been laid off during this most recent downturn.



Now the banks get the last laugh because they get thier money guranteed by the government


Many, many banks never receive bailout money. Most did not. The ones that did - primarily Bank of America, Citigroup, etc. - were bailed out by the government because they were "too big too fail". But most of your small community banks, and regional mid-sized banks - never ever took a dime of taxpayer money.

If you want to complain about Chase and BOA and Citigroup, fine. Also, don't forget to lump in the big Wall Street investment banking firms - You know, like Morgan Stanley, etc. These firms have little, if anything, to do with the small and mid-size banking firms in your local community that actually support small businesses and entrepreneurs - the backbone of our economy and the main job creator in this country.



So honestly I don't think the banks give a crap who lives or dies. And actually I believe that they are intentially and willfully working towards the destruction of the United States as a nation of ideas and ideals.

Most smaller and mid-sized banks are owned by prominent people in your local community. Big banks are the zombies that don't give a crap about anyone - neither their customers, employees, nor their investors.

Banks are no more working for the destruction of the economy than any other industry - pharmaceuticals, heavy industry, etc. They are simply a mechanism for distributing capital at interest. There is no hidden agenda, other than profit. But that's why American businesses exist - To make a profit. And banking is definitely a business if it is anything at all.

If you have a complaint against banks, then you have a complaint against the free enterprise system. Compared to communism, I would choose free enterprise any day of the week.




I believe that the banking system sees American consumers as both chumps and an expendable commodity to be used as a means to destroy the country.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's a bit too negative, and all-encompassing, and pretty sweeping. As an industry, most bankers are pretty straightforward, business minded, and generally conservative types. We've already covered the "chump" comment - Again, it's bad business, and banking is built around long-term relationships with clients. And it's a competitive business at that. If you treat a client like a "chump", they can and do take their business elsewhere -- and fast.




Contrarary to your own deluded belief, banks and thier agents don't operate in a noble manner. The only plaque hanging on the wall of American corporations, miscelleneous governments, and financial institutions says, "SHORT TERM PROFIT AT ALL COSTS."


Deluded belief, eh? How so? Banks make money by establishing long-term client relationships primarily with businesses, and to a lesser extent, consumers. The real money is in commercial and industrial real estate.

Banking is a very noble profession - Just ask any business owner if they value their banker. Bankers are trusted business advisers.

American business is too much centered on quarterly profits if you're on Wall Street. True. But that doesn't negate the one-on-one relationships - long-term - between bankers and clients.



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09


Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Are you married with children Cookie? How old are you maybe 28 or so? So you already know all the answers.


My personal life has nothing to do with this. I don't really think it's relevant to the subject matter under discussion. If you can tell me why it's so important, I would be willing to listen, however. If you are trying to imply that I don't have "family values" so to speak, then I think you're mis-characterizing me entirely.


If I came across as angry in my previous posts I appologize. You accually seem to be decent cookie. I'm really very angry at the impersonalness of the entire system. Those who are connected have an easier time navigating thier way through the chaos. Those who are unconnected are left to fend for themselves.

I only asked if you were married with children becuase you were talking about living on $40K/yr and I was wondering if you had a wife, with kids to take care of, who actually thought that was adequate in todays world.




What proof do you have that the credit reporting agencies favor lenders over consumers? Even if we are speculating, what incentive would credit reporting agencies have for reporting inaccurate information?


It's not as though I think they are picking specific people out to destroy. I just think they just don't give a damn who they destroy.

It's a proven fact that reporting agencies favor business' over consumers. Reporting agencies give subscribing business (You can count government agencies in said group. Our governments look to provide services secondary to profiting off of citizens. If you know any government flunkies I'd love to talk to them on ATS as well.
) the benefit of the doubt and easier access. Consumers are intentially left in the dark. The growth of the internet has cracked the door to the hall of secrets open a little.

A multi-million dollar corporation has one goal. Profit at all costs. BY writing off a $43 cell phone bill and reporting it as delinquent on a consumers credit they moved one small step closer to thier quarterly profit goal. As the recipient of a $43 charge off and never given a chance to pay it, negotiate it or disagree with it, just a black mark on my record for 7 years I'm pretty pissed off.

And then to have the credit reporting agencies claim that they verified,upon request, said $43 debt, in a few days, without providing proof of said verification, is insulting.

The lawsuit industry is a growth industry you know. And I'm betting that the credit reporting industry is next on the radar screens of lawyers. I bet there are enough people out there who are chomping at the bit for thier piece of flesh that several class action lawsuits are not out of the question.

$43 against me? (You or whoever)

$43 million against you (Them/ You being the credit reporting agencies).

Black mark against me?

Black eye for you. (You being the credit reporting agencies)



[edit on 7-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Added to previous post:

And then to have the credit reporting agencies claim that they verified, upon request, said $43 debt, in a few days, without providing proof of said verification, is insulting.

[edit on 7-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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I only asked if you were married with children becuase you were talking about living on $40K/yr and I was wondering if you had a wife, with kids to take care of, who actually thought that was adequate in todays world.


I can tell you that most bankers, myself included, don't earn 6 figures. Some do - after about 15-20 years of experience if they are lucky to climb the corporate ladder and play the political game. Most Branch Managers at your local bank earn about $55-65,000 a year, and most Personal Bankers about $30,000-$40,000 on average. Tellers earn $10 an hour if they're lucky.

The ones that make the big bucks in banking are either Harvard MBA's that start at the executive level (think Jamie Dimon), or have spent decades of their life climbing the corporate ladder. Even then, banking is one of the most volatile, unpredictable industries - especially lately.



It's a proven fact that reporting agencies favor business' over consumers. Reporting agencies give subscribing business the benefit of the doubt and easier access. Consumers are intentially left in the dark. The growth of the internet has cracked the door to the hall of secrets open a little.


I think it depends on the situation. Just yesterday, I noticed that a small balance of $163 was still showing on a Home Equity Line of Credit I had about 5 years ago. I had closed the account long ago, and the credit reporting agency - in this case Experian - was still showing a balance of $163 on my credit report. I called the bank, spoke to Customer Service, and they were very polite and took care of the matter. It will take about 15-30 days for it to show up on my credit report. No big deal.

All the credit reporting agencies do is report information. I don't think there is a vast conspiracy against consumers. Most of this reporting is electronic now, and so humans aren't even involved. It's simpler than ever to contest negative credit items.

You have to remember that identity theft is a huge problem. If the credit reporting agency verifies a signature on a loan contract, and that loan contract is forged (fraud), the credit reporting agency is just doing their job. They verified the contract, and according to the results of their investigation, you are responsible.

What do you do? Well, this then becomes a criminal matter - You have to hire an attorney, file a police report, and demonstrate that this is fraud against you. It's cumbersome, yes, but fighting criminal behavior is never easy.

Also, remember that people with bad credit lie about it. They don't want to admit that they didn't pay some bills. It's embarrassing to them.

They would rather blame the banks, blame the credit reporting agencies, blame their creditors.

But facts are facts. If you have bad credit, 99% of the time it's either a case of identity theft OR a case of not paying one's bills (for whatever reason).

As far as "secrecy" is concerned, our educational system does a terrible job of educating Americans on how the credit, banking, and financial system work. That's a fault of our educators, not a fault of the system itself. People, unfortunately, have to take the initiative themselves to learn these matters. I don't think it's intentional to "leave people in the dark", as it is just that our educational system has never placed a value on financial education.

CONTINUED BELOW



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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A multi-million dollar corporation has one goal. Profit at all costs. BY writing off a $43 cell phone bill and reporting it as delinquent on a consumers credit they moved one small step closer to thier quarterly profit goal. As the recipient of a $43 charge off and never given a chance to pay it, negotiate it or disagree with it, just a black mark on my record for 7 years I'm pretty pissed off.


Again, this sounds more like an issue with the cell phone company than the credit reporting agency. Sounds like the cell phone company was the one that was incompetent. The credit reporting agency just reported the information. Based on its investigation, it found proof of some sort - a bill, a signed contract, whatever - that justified its decision against you.

That's why it's utterly important to choose your creditors wisely. Whenever we close an account, or stop a service, we ask for a final bill - in writing - indicating that the account is closed and we have a $0 balance.

If it ever comes up again, we simply show the credit reporting agency that the charge is false. Having something in writing helps immensely - Otherwise it is your word against theirs. Get it in writing.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Can anyone explain why I continually receive credit offers from all of the major banks, increases in my limits and additional lines of credit since I've been unemployed for... a long time?

I received an updated major credit card in the mail, all I had to do was activate it. It was presented as if I already had the account, which coincidentally, I closed two weeks before. When I closed it the salesperson didn't seem to understand why I would want to cancel and close an account with so many perks attached to it. I had to repeat several times that I want the account closed.

I went into debt to build a new house which is now worth 30% less than the mortgage I owe on it. I have one credit card and debit card from the bank with whom I have my checking account.

People need to go back to the olden days, earn what you need, pay for it with cash that you've saved (interest free). Banks are for the control of society. In olden times, people knew that.

Advertising and marketing (like cookiemonster09 is advocating) is the bait for the trap of debt. The verbage is so smooth and glosses over the real hardships that credit/debt bring. Its a trap, a clever one but a trap still the same. Anything that has small print requiring a magnifying glass to read does not have your best interest at heart.

It makes me ill to read the horrifying stories of some of these members that have been burned. It makes me feel even worse that anyone would defend a monstrous system like banking and credit agencies in light of the current financial disaster.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Advertising and marketing (like cookiemonster09 is advocating) is the bait for the trap of debt. The verbage is so smooth and glosses over the real hardships that credit/debt bring. Its a trap, a clever one but a trap still the same. Anything that has small print requiring a magnifying glass to read does not have your best interest at heart. It makes me ill to read the horrifying stories of some of these members that have been burned. It makes me feel even worse that anyone would defend a monstrous system like banking and credit agencies in light of the current financial disaster.


First, I have never once advocated for people to take on debt that they can't handle. Please show me where I advocate this - I don't.

Please stop stating lies and making false accusations.

I've also never once advocated the "marketing or advertising of debt". I have stated that debt is a tool that can be utilized for beneficial purposes if used responsibly and with due care. I encouraged caution in assuming debt in several instances in this thread.

I actually think it's highly intelligent for people to use credit responsibly, and to avoid debt whenever possible. Actually, most bankers feel the same way because they see clients that have been hurt by excessive debt. We see credit applications every day from borrowers in over their heads.

I have even stated that Americans have gone way overboard on debt, by taking on way more than they can handle.

Please re-read my posts and stop defaming me.

As I have clearly pointed out, the only cases of anyone "being burned" on this thread are clear cut instances of identity theft and isolated experiences that indicated creditor fraud -- which has absolutely nothing to do with the credit reporting agencies and the banking system.

If you have issues with your creditor - a cell phone company, car finance company, etc. - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the banking system nor the credit reporting agencies.

Too many Americans TOTALLY ABUSE the credit system, then blame banks, credit reporting agencies, and creditors for their negative credit history.

Most small and mid-size banks have suffered tremendously from this downturn, and many bank employees have been laid off. Only the big banks have profited from government bailouts, not smaller banks that support the local business communities which employ the MAJORITY of Americans in this country.

Before you go bashing the banking system, you should really think twice before you paint a broad brush on a lot of hard-working, honest, ethical, and competent banking professionals.

The downturn is the result of the following:

- Heavy handed federal government intervention and mandates promoting sub-prime lending to unqualified borrowers
- Mortgage Brokers that sold bogus "liar loans" to Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac
- Wall Street investment firms like Goldman Sachs that packaged these bogus loans and sold them to investors
- Rating Agencies like Standard & Poor's that gave these subprime loans an AAA rating when they were in fact junk investments

Again, the meltdown has absolutely nothing to do with consumer credit reporting agencies nor the small, mid-size retail banks that you see in your local community.

Most of the mortgage fraud was committed by Mortgage Brokerage firms like Countrywide (NOT a bank), Ameriquest (NOT a bank), etc.

MORTGAGE BROKERS are NOT banks.

Smaller banks have been effected enormously by the fraud committed by criminal mortgage brokers. They have seen their collateral values decrease by up to 40% or more in certain parts of the country. If they funded bogus mortgage broker deals, they got hit even harder.

Many small community banks lent money to residential home builders for lot inventory and house construction. They got burned when the sub-prime crisis hit and houses couldn't get sold. As a result, these banks are sitting on massive amounts of lots and newly constructed vacant houses.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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As far as "horrifying stories" goes, re-read the thread. I have responded to each situation and analyzed each in detail.

Most involve identity theft - such as the woman who posted that her ex-husband stole her identity, OR they are CREDITOR issues - the creditor (cell phone company, car company, landlord, etc.) was being uncooperative.

Credit reports are generally 95-100% accurate most of the time. Why? Because it's all electronic reporting the majority of the time.

If you see a negative item on your credit report, you have the right to contest the item. The steps to do so are VERY simple and straightforward. The steps to take are clearly displayed on the credit reporting agencies' web sites.

If the credit reporting agency conducts an investigation into the matter, and has legitimate evidence that the negative item is in FACT correct, it will reject your request. Evidence might include a copy of a signed loan agreement, etc.

If the negative credit item is a matter of fraud or identity theft, that's a whole other matter completely UNRELATED to the credit reporting agency. All the agency is trying to do is verify if there is proof of a contract legitimizing the credit history showing on the credit report.

If it's a matter of fraud, or identity theft, you must file a police report and hire an attorney.

Again, HOW is this the fault of the credit reporting agency or the banking system???

If you have issues with your cell phone company, that's between you and the cell phone company. Take it up with them. All the credit reporting agency does is spit out the information. Banks have NOTHING to do with the matter.

Same thing with car finance companies, landlords, etc. - any creditor.

Quit blaming Banks and Credit Reporting Agencies for issues related to your creditors which YOU CHOSE to do business with!

Many, many Americans are highly irresponsible with debt. They go overboard, load up their credit cards, student loans, car debt, etc., then they blame the credit reporting agencies and banks for their negative credit history. Then they have the audacity to say it's the banking industry's fault, and the credit reporting agencies' fault!!

Meanwhile, we Americans who DO pay our bills on time, get the pleasure of paying HIGHER interest rates on our loans because of others that stiff their creditors. Why not point that little tidbit out?

Why are you defending people that stiff their creditors for illegit reasons?? Is it my fault you filed divorce? Is it my fault you had your identity stolen? I am sorry for your situation, but please, GIVE ME A BREAK. Grow up. Start acting like a responsible adult and QUIT blaming others for your problems.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 




I have stated that debt is a tool that can be utilized for beneficial purposes if used responsibly and with due care. I encouraged caution in assuming debt in several instances in this thread.


Debt is a trap NOT a tool. Thank you for your replies. Why encourage caution in assuming debt? I'll venture a guess if I may. Because it supports the enslavement of every individual on this planet in one way or another. Encourage consumers to live beyond their means with advertising and marketing and whatever it is you are doing here on this thread. Advocating debt.

Irresponsible business and government are the problem, not the consumer who has been lambasted with false advertising and small print, terrible customer service and evasive tactics.

I did not see your answer to why I'm being offered more pre-approved credit relentlessly when I am unemployed. If you answered I must have missed it, in that case my apology.




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