OBAMA isnt a citizen, he shouldnt be Prez

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Unit541

 

No, it doesn't mean that there is something to hide, it means that this is all nonsense and that he doesn't have to show it to every man woman and child in the world.

Your wanting a document that has nothing to do with the office that he now holds. There is no constitutional requirement that the long form birth certificate is the only acceptable form of identification that exists to show someone was born in the US.

You want him to show it, and he doesn't have to. That's the only reason.

Well, given the FACT that your super-hero campaigned on a platform of TRANSPARENCY, I would have thought he would have wanted to "show it", since a sizable portion of those that he now governs have asked for it.

And for the record, it has everything to do with the office he holds. I'm not going to try and convince you though, as I've already tried convincing two rocks, a stick and a brick, and they didn't seem to get it either.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by Lumpyloaf
Wow...so I can just walk into the DMV with my local newspaper clipping which states I was born and pick up my new drivers license or identification card? Maybe when I'm done there, I can skip over and pick up a nifty passport. I never knew the legal importance of such a fine document.

Gah, the DMV analogy. Ok, so you go into the DMV (which is not the office of the presidency) and show them whatever form THEY deem acceptable of proof of your citizenship and right to operate a motor vehicle. Does that mean you also have to show the 16 year old kid in the back of the line your proof because he questions it? No it doesn't.

The DMV analogy is bogus because there are different requirements to get a drivers license than there are being POTUS. Just because the constitution doesn't require the long form birth certificate does not mean he has to show it.

I don't even know how to explain it simpler than that.

Many of you who bash individuals wanting a straight answer on the legality of Obama sitting in the Oval Office are missing the point. You think this is petty whining and squabbling over minor issues you deem unimportant. Who do you think you are? You're no one in a position to tell someone that it is time to let go of an issue. Let me repeat myself...You...are...no...one. A troll looking for air time.

This is not trolling, this is giving answers to people asking questions that have been answered before. And your second point also applies to this question who are you to question this mans eligibility to hold office? Are you a member of the SCOTUS? If your answer is no then you don't have a claim.

reply to post by Unit541

Well, given the FACT that your super-hero campaigned on a platform of TRANSPARENCY, I would have thought he would have wanted to "show it", since a sizable portion of those that he now governs have asked for it.

Oh don't get into the BS transparency issue with me, we all know that the Transparency claim is just bull. I knew that was a lie the second I heard it.

And for the record, it has everything to do with the office he holds. I'm not going to try and convince you though, as I've already tried convincing two rocks, a stick and a brick, and they didn't seem to get it either.

Quit arguing with inanimate objects, it really gets you nowhere. Now when you come up with some legal real proof that Obama must provide as a matter of public record his long form birth certificate to me, then I will be right with you to question it. Otherwise any legal form of identification like the stamped COLB is good enough proof. People don't read the Constitution anymore, it's a shame, lots of good info in there. What is not in there anywhere is that anyone potentially running for POTUS has to show the long form birth certificate to the general population as the only proof positive that they have the constitutional right to run and hold the job.

The White House is treating this issue (lack of birth certificate or offical school records) just like it is treating the issue of North Korea. Ignore it, it will go away. No response causes mass confusion. A public statement can take on a life of its own. This policy is reflected in the military's stance on homosexuality in service. Dont Ask! dont tell.

reply to post by Hazelnut


Internet hysteria causes mass confusion. People not reading and understanding the US constitution causes mass confusion. The white hose not being bogged down by this non issue does not cause mass confusion, it just frees up the POTUS's time for matters of state which he is supposed to be working on.

reply to post by whatukno


I don't think my DMV example was any less relevant than the newspaper clipping. I was using it to make a point with how insane it sounds to use a newspaper article for proof. I need to see if I can use it to buy alcohol next time.

Speaking of trolls, I don't mind if you have a difference of opinion. I mind when individuals bash one another with nonconstructive comments. Not only that, but telling someone that their point is not valid based on a formed opinion? That is trollish to me. Your comment provided me more than just, "you're wrong".

Honestly, I don't follow this topic religiously. I do read the arguments and such to find out one day which side was right. Forgive me if I used ancient examples, my irritation was really with some of the comments throughout the thread.

reply to post by Lumpyloaf


Don't get me wrong, the newspaper clip is about as hard of evidence as a wet paper bag filled with jell o.

I am going by the US constitution for my basis in this argument. No where does it say the long form birth certificate is the only form of paper that legally recognizes a persons right to be a natural born citizen.

If someone can come up with a valid constitutional argument stating that this one piece of paper is the only legal form of ID that will prove once and for all this matter, than I will be with them in a heartbeat. Unfortunately the US constitution does not specify what form of ID is acceptable and what form of ID is required so a legally recognized COLB is proof positive that Obama was born in Hawaii and thus a natural born American citizen.

It may not be good enough for the DMV but it is good enough for the office of POTUS.

reply to post by whatukno


Ok, lets stick to YOUR own logic here, and go by the constitution. It simply states that one must be a native born citizen of the United States of America. It does NOT define what constitutes proof and what doesn't. The FACT of the matter, is that he has not proven he is a native born citizen. He's produced documents that are easily obtained, regardless of ones citizenship status.

Personally, I don't care where he was born, I'm more concerned about why he refuses to simply show his actual, original birth certificate. It's a trivial matter to do so, but refusing to do so is hardly a trivial matter.

And your rebuttal to the valid DMV analogy is laughable. That 16 year old kid at the end of the line isn't the one who decides if you get your license or not.

The presidency however, is decided by the people of this country, and if even one of them wants information that pertains to the eligibility for the office, he should provide it. After all, WE hired him. If one or more of WE, suspect that he may have been hired under false pretenses, he should mitigate those suspicions by simply providing the evidence that we ask for, not something similar to what we ask for, but exactly what we ask for. Especially when it's something as trivial as a freaking birth certificate.

When someone says "hey, I was born in Hawaii", then a whole village in Kenya erects a monument to the same persons place of birth, I think it's fairly valid to ask, OK, which one is it? When the same man attends school under a completely different name, it's again valid to wonder about the accuracy of information surrounding his past. When he's elected, and breaks his biggest campaign promise within 72 hours of taking office, we begin to wonder if maybe we didn't look close enough at some of these discrepancies.

Oh, and are you saying he didn't promise transparency?

Originally posted by Barack Obama
My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

By refusing to release what his constituents ask for, he's not exactly creating an "unprecedented level of openness in Government.

Your rabid attacks of those who question their own government seem to indicate some fear on your part. Perhaps you're afraid that if we keep pressing the issue, it will not just go away. Perhaps you're afraid that if it doesn't just go away, the truth will find it's way out. Perhaps you're afraid that if the truth comes out, it won't be what you want it to be.

reply to post by whatukno


Funny you mention Snopes because they originally had hospital B listed.

Original Snopes screenshot

Here's the kicker, the Snopes data was changed just 2 days ago.
Sure I'm sure you'll bash WND but the Snopes screenshot speaks for itself.

Hmmmm!

Whiff whhiff.
This smells like a coverup.

(This item was corrected July 8, 2009, to fix the name of the hospital where Obama was born. The original item incorrectly identified the facility as Queen's Hospital, an error made by the writer.)

Hawaiian officials have only confirmed that Obama has a valid certificate on file but have not been able to confirm that he was actually born in Hawaii.

This may be enough for the Obama borgs but..

News Flash!

Hawaiian state law allows children born outside Hawaii get valid Hawaiian birth certificates

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

So what happens next?

It's important to keep in mind that Obama cultists will say anything they can think up in order to protect their leader. One creative explanation offered is that when Obama referred to "Queen" he meant it in the sense of Kapi'olani being named after a queen. Give them points for creativity!

The other is more noxious, and it's an attempt to sow confusion over Kapi'olani changing their name. As discussed above. Kapi'olani were previously named Kauikeolani, but Kapi'olani/Kauikeolani are an entirely different entity from Queen.

More Info

reply to post by Unit541

The FACT of the matter, is that he has not proven he is a native born citizen. He's produced documents that are easily obtained, regardless of ones citizenship status.

Just because they are easily obtained does not make them any less valid. Hawaii has confirmed they are legit. Your argument that it is a false document does not hold water because the fact is it is real. It has been verified and so it is legitimate. Again, Too Bad So Sad.

Both Snops.com and FactCheck.org have proven the claim that the COLB is a faked document false.

And your rebuttal to the valid DMV analogy is laughable. That 16 year old kid at the end of the line isn't the one who decides if you get your license or not.

That 16 year old kid at the back of the line is representative of the people who demand to see a document they have no right to see. Remember as Citizens we vote for electors in this country not the president. We as Citizens have no authority to vote for the POTUS, the only people authorized to vote for the POTUS are the Electoral College. Using the DMV analogy only the electors have any authority to ask for such documentation. Other than that it's the SCOTUS. The electors are the person behind the DMV desk that go on break when you are next in line.

Oh, and are you saying he didn't promise transparency?

I didn't say he didn't promise transparency, I simply stated I knew that was a lie the moment he uttered it. Please, don't put words in my mouth and don't go off topic.

Your rabid attacks of those who question their own government seem to indicate some fear on your part. Perhaps you're afraid that if we keep pressing the issue, it will not just go away. Perhaps you're afraid that if it doesn't just go away, the truth will find it's way out. Perhaps you're afraid that if the truth comes out, it won't be what you want it to be.

I fear nothing of the sort. My arguments here are exactly what they are. They are the other side of the coin. He was asked to show proof of his citizenship, he did so, but there are those that simply refuse to believe anything. So they press this non issue, even though it won't go anywhere. They press on and on without constitutional merit. When I simply ask for concrete constitutional evidence from the accuser that shows that Obama must provide proof of his citizenship via the long form birth certificate and no one can come up with it. It makes the rest of the claims seem useless.

reply to post by Alxandro

Funny you mention Snopes because they originally had hospital B listed.

"A number of readers have written to us to point out that Wikipedia previously updated their Obama-related entries to resolve the same discrepancy, so we included a similar clarification in our latest round of updates."

This argument is pretty weak. Hawaii has confirmed his COLB is genuine. His mother is an American citizen. So let's see two strikes that say that Obama is a natural born US Citizen, and so eligible for the Office of POTUS.

Hawaiian officials have only confirmed that Obama has a valid certificate on file but have not been able to confirm that he was actually born in Hawaii.

This may be enough for the Obama borgs but..

News Flash!

Hawaiian state law allows children born outside Hawaii get valid Hawaiian birth certificates

Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

you are still missing the part about his father and the British Citizen Act of 1948. That is why he isnt a natural born citizen. There are those 2 parts he needs to fulfill.
1.Born in US
2.Under US jurisdiciton.

reply to post by ShadowLife


Please explain to me the British Citizen Act of 1948 and show how it is applicable under United States Law. Because under existing US laws Obama is a Natural born American Citizen. Having been born in Hawaii from a mother who was a natural born US Citizen. His father could have been born on Mars for all it's concerned. (Fact of the matter they both could have been born on Mars as he was born in Hawaii.) His mother was a US citizen. So even if he was not born in the United States (Which he was) he would still be a US citizen.

The United States does not have to recognize the laws of other countries within the borders of the United States. You are citing a British law and trying to apply it to a United States citizen. You are claiming that Obama is a British citizen, yet you show no proof whatsoever of that claim.

This comes from his time in Indonesia right? Apparently he supposedly while under the age of consent renounced his US citizenship to attend school. Yet not once have I seen a formal declaration of citizenship from Indonesia nor have I seen any evidence that a person under the age of consent can willfully renounce their citizenship to the United States and have that declaration be recognized by the US State Department.

Also I see no evidence within article 2 section 1 of the United States Constitution nor the 14th Amendment where a person who is a natural born citizen of the United States but enjoys dual citizenship is barred from the office of POTUS.

[edit on 7/9/2009 by whatukno]

Actually he is correct, Obama is NOT a citizen of the united states, he pulled one over all the peoples eyes and hid the fact in plain sight, he has admitted with his own words, but if we (COULD) get him impeached, the african American community would revolt and there would be war in teh streets.

but in the OP's quote, you will read this

"Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth"

tell me, if he was a citizen, do you think he would purposely avoid releasing his birth records and having to deal with all that bs he didnt want? NO! he would have released them! but he didnt, because he knows the truth, and everyone who isnt brainwashed on this whole "Big Daddy Government" bull# knows the truth, its all the unaware souls out there being herded around because their parents are also under the same bull.

The plain and simple fact is, Obamas father was born there (the uk), therefore OBAMA JR is a citizen there, not only that though, OBAMA was NOT born in hawaii like all the people actually think. OH NO!



I want to do anything I can, But I have no idea on how to go about this.

reply to post by Codazzle


Your entire argument has already been debunked. Please catch up.

Even if Obama's father is a subject of the British crown, his Mother is a natural Born American Citizen and thus gives Obama by Birthright Natural born American Citizenship.

The presidency however, is decided by the people of this country, and if even one of them wants information that pertains to the eligibility for the office, he should provide it. After all, WE hired him.

This is an error, the people do not decide the president, the electoral college does. And while those should give the same results they do not always.

Regardless of any acts the UK passes, anyone who has a parent as a citizen and is born in the US is a US citizen. All that act does is allow Obama dual citizenship if he should choose. As a sovereign nation no other nation's laws supersede our own; remember that.

reply to post by Histopherness

This is an error, the people do not decide the president, the electoral college does.

Thank you for confirming this. This means that no American citizen has the right to question the credentials of the President as we do not have the authority of being able to vote for him. We vote in a popular election only (supposedly) to sway the Electoral College.

Regardless of any acts the UK passes, anyone who has a parent as a citizen and is born in the US is a US citizen. All that act does is allow Obama dual citizenship if he should choose. As a sovereign nation no other nation's laws supersede our own; remember that.

exactly what I was trying to explain. Even if Obama was a person of dual citizenship this does not limit his ability to be the POTUS.

As the state of Hawaii has authenticated his COLB a document that is a legal form of identification. (doesn't matter if the DMV doesn't accept it) As such the office of POTUS is open to Obama.

You need to be mentally ill to be gripping about this issue.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


You said this issue wouldn't wake anyone up. It's my belief if this were shown to be true it would wake the majority of people up. The level of corruption needed for this to take place would be mind blowing for people.

I don't know if it's true or not but it would wake people up.Even if it's true nothing will ever come of this. The courts aren't even looking at it hard.

It is odd that he doesn't show his BC just to shut everybody up. This thing could easily take on a life of it's own.

reply to post by Strictsum

It is odd that he doesn't show his BC just to shut everybody up. This thing could easily take on a life of it's own.

HE ALREADY HAS!

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Source: www.factcheck.org...

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Strictsum

 

It is odd that he doesn't show his BC just to shut everybody up. This thing could easily take on a life of it's own.

HE ALREADY HAS!

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Source: www.factcheck.org...

Any ideas about why the stamp on the birth certificate says June, 6, 2007?