If HE walked the earth today, he would abhor today's Church

Okay, I do not know what I call myself when it comes to religion. But I was brought up in a Baptist environment, going to church and believing in the Christian religion.

I have a real problem with Christianity today. In fact, I believe the Church is nothing but a distorted man made monstrosity, a shadow of what a wise man once proposed two thousnad years ago.

Jesus was born in a manger, the son of a carpenter. Now look at these:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/854c31608644.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa034c4e1fbc.jpeg[/atsimg]

Jesus, according to the Bible, told us that the poor and untouchable are truly God's children and welcome in his house.

The Bible tells of Jesus' consternation with the hypocritical Phasisees, the ruling religious class of the day. Unlike the system of sacrifice, pomp and ceremony which stood against the true wishes of God, we were to come to him like children and ask for forgiveness.

Like this?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a89d8ba6e538.jpg[/atsimg]

Now I don't know the solution, it is probably too late. All I'm saying is that if Jesus Christ did exist as the Son of God, he would abhor the Christian Church as it stands today.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/03da81037048.jpg[/atsimg]

Now the Church wants us to believe in the Bible, to obey the word, but strangely when it comes to living like true Christians like Jesus, they seem to forget the word and live in a world of wealth, pomp and ceremony. You can't have it both ways!





[edit on 3-7-2009 by kiwifoot]

If "He" walked the earth today, he would be seriously outdone by Chris Angel. Much better illusionist

As a catholic I got a huge kick out of this joke. . .

Jesus comes back. He is visiting everyone, going everywhere. The Vatican is scrambling. Priests running around, Bishops scrambling everywhere.

They all finally go running to the Pope.

"Holy Father," they say, "What are we to do?"

The Pope thinks for a while then leans over and saying in a small, quiet whisper, "Look busy."



-sorry, gonna hafta go to confession after that one but I thought it was great-

reply to post by kiwifoot


First, we must realize that there are two types of church. One is the Universal Church, or the Body of Christ. These are all those that have accepted Christ as Savior. Then there is the church, which is a building that Chrisitians [who are not necessarily follwers of Christ] meet in. Yes, some churches have elaborate cathedrals as their meeting place. That, in my opinion at least, isn't a bad thing. This is because when the cathedrals were built, they were built to honor God. Not man. The builders of these buildings wanted God to have "nice house". The Temple was fairly elaborate and ornate, and God himself gave the specs for it! So, if he is going to get upset because some people built cathedrals for him, he's gonna have to get mad at himself for setting the example.

he would abhor the Christian Church as it stands today.

Christ probably wouldn't be too happy with the state of things as it is today in his Church, his body. There are many people that are living the Christian life in a half-hearted way. Christ doesn't like that. It's predicted that that would happen though--the Great Apostasy. As Christians, we need to continually encourage one another to stay on the path that Jesus set for us--and not get too wrapped up in external things. The Christian life, no matter how you slice it, is a relationship between you and Jesus. We need to stay in his word and obey it and make sure we're spiritually in check and build our treasures in heaven.

Also, if God happens to bless us with wealth, we need to be sure that we use it in a God honoring way.

Oh, and with our traditions, because we all have them, we need to be sure that we're not worshiping that tradition. That goes for anything. We need to make sure that nothing robs Christ of the glory and honor that he deserves.

[edit on 7/3/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by kiwifoot


By "He" I assume you mean Jesus. Jesus, if the history is correct, was a fully enlightened being. As such he saw no division anywhere. All barriers were down and all was love for him. He and everything else where the same love energy. To say that such an awake being would hate something is to misunderstand his basic message. Such a being is incapable of hating, as he sees the whole picture. He would have a compassionate view of the misguided religions of the world, and would lovingly seek to put them back on the path to truth.

He would be seriously pissed at his followers...

Just three days ago out in the parking lot to our townhouse this neighbour lady who is a youth minister with Victory out reach, had a number of teens around her... I heard some soft pops and looked out the window in time to see one boy shot a seven year old with a BB-gun repeatedly...

Poor little guy ran home to momma for protection and the youth minster and those teens just laughed and cat called names after the victim...

If this is how all baptists act towards innocent little kids I want no part of it buddy

[edit on 3-7-2009 by DaddyBare]

Originally posted by octotom
Oh, and with our traditions, because we all have them, we need to be sure that we're not worshiping that tradition. That goes for anything. We need to make sure that nothing robs Christ of the glory and honor that he deserves.

And what would Christ think of this..............www.abovetopsecret.com...

Perversion of his Holy Word?

Was raised in the Methodist church but exposed to many other Christian denominations and to other religions.

I was youth director for many years and also a short term missionary and held many offices within the church over the years.

Today, I do not have a church that I attend.

I worship alone and with family and friends at our homes or under the branches of the trees in the open air.

In my opinion the modern day churches are not what Jesus intended to be for our worship.

Star and flag for the OP.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Laughing out loud. Yes, good joke.

Just read DizzyDames post no need to repeat what that poster said.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by electricveins]

reply to post by dizziedame

In my opinion the modern day churches are not what Jesus intended to be for our worship.

Christ just wanted us to worship with other believers and not forsake that. It doesn't matter where. I can worship with fellow believers in a church, at the beach, or in the woods.

The assembling together is the important thing.

reply to post by whaaa


I don't find supporting the Constitution a perversion of God's word.

Jesus actually warns of all this.

www.biblegateway.com...

I'd quote the entire thing, because it all applies, but I'll start where it gets more specific in regards to the church.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Notice at the end: The people are the authority, and not the scribes? Scribes do what? Write scripture. Not that scripture is bad or anything in itself, but when it is elevated to the authority, then it's still just the "pharisees in the seat of moses". The pharisees could repeat the scripture great. But as Jesus might say - You say it very nicely, now let me tell you what it means.

This is because the father is within. The pope and the preachers are nothing but modern day pharisees. All that you read of the pharisees, these people also do. Just because they don't call themselves by that title, people do not see it. But if you look at their function, actions and fruits you will find that all that is said of the pharisees is also true of them. A rose by any other name still smells the same.

Small example:

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Church = synagogue. If you went to a place of worship, then it was a synagogue or temple etc. They didn't have "churches".

Rabbi, pope, cardinal etc, all name changes and the same function. etc.

Never see such things if someone focuses on the literal rather than understanding. For the literal, there is a difference between pharisee and pope/cardinal, a difference between rabbi/preacher/father. For those with understanding, they are the same thing.

reply to post by octotom


There is only 1 true church, you can not have 2 masters. The true church is within a person, it is built on knowledge, wisdom and understanding. Those are the things that are rich and valuable in the eyes of the father. It is present in both heaven and earth, because it is within you. No man can touch it either, they can only kill your flesh but they will never touch the true church within, only you can do that.

The true church is founded on wisdom. It is founded on a rock. Rock = founded on wisdom. Look at Matthew 7, at the man who built his house on a rock, and the fool who builds it on sand.

The physical church is a lie and manipulation. It is made beautiful for the eyes of men, as such things are not seen as valuable at all for god. They use it as a replacement for the true church, and manipulate all scripture that mentions a church as being their justification and of them, when it is not.

I find that most things in Christianity are also just like this. Physical replacements to deceive people from seeing and understanding the true spiritual under it. Just like being baptized in water and so forth, physical replacements for actual understanding. Not that things can't happen at those times, but it's not dipping in water that does things, and so while it may happen in some every now and then, in most people it does nothing.

So I do not think it's good at all. It's part of the deception.

reply to post by badmedia

They didn't have "churches".

Eventually they did. The church became the meeting place of the early Christians. Christ even talked to seven churches in Revelation. Jesus even said that his church would be built upon the rock of himself.

Matthew 16.18 [ESV]:

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by badmedia

 

They didn't have "churches".

Eventually they did. The church became the meeting place of the early Christians. Christ even talked to seven churches in Revelation. Jesus even said that his church would be built upon the rock of himself.

Matthew 16.18 [ESV]:

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I actually just replied to you specifically.

I didn't quote the verse in that, so I'll do it here.

Matthew 7

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

He gives peter the keys to the kingdom. The kingdom of heaven is within, and so is the father. Those keys are wisdom and understanding. Those things stand in the high places, and without them you do not enter.

Proverbs 8

1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

And

Proverbs 9

1Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

You are free to replace that with a physical building if you want. But I am not fool enough to do the same.



[edit on 7/3/2009 by badmedia]

Also, Jesus says when 2 or more people discuss him, then he will be among them. Discussion like we are doing now, not an authority figure preaching and telling the people what to accept is truth. Don't need a physical building at all.

When people are discussing and debating like we are here, then that will lead to understanding. Understanding comes from the father. When people instead listen to preachers and accept, they do not understand. And they walk on in darkness.

Let those with ears hear. Anyone can listen, but only those with ears will hear. Only those with understanding hear, the rest are just listening.

reply to post by badmedia

There is only 1 true church,

I agree. But, the one true church is made up of local bodies of believers as we can't all be together.

you can not have 2 masters.

I agree also, but just because I attend a church to be with fellow Christians doesn't mean that it's my "second" master. I am against church membership because of how some churches use church membership. If a church that I am attending were to trepass against God's word, I would do what I could to rectify the problem, then split if nothing changed. My Lord is more important.

They use it as a replacement for the true church, and manipulate all scripture that mentions a church as being their justification and of them, when it is not.

All a church building is a building where people meet. There is nothing special about the building. What is special is what makes up the congregation. A church, or called out ones, can meet anywhere. In my hometown back in Florida, there is a church that meets on the beach. What is important is the edification of the body and the worship of God. Before I moved to Germany, my wife and I attended a church that met in a school cafeteria. Wherever you meet, the attitude is important. I can go and worship in a church that has 10,000 members and a multi-million dollar budget and all God is going to care about is the motivation of me being there. The same goes for those that build and pastor churches like that. God is only going to care about their motivation. What are they doing for him, are they reaching people, are they using their resources in a God honoring way.

Physical replacements to deceive people from seeing and understanding the true spiritual under it. Just like being baptized in water and so forth, physical replacements for actual understanding. Not that things can't happen at those times, but it's not dipping in water that does things, and so while it may happen in some every now and then, in most people it does nothing.

See now, I've told you before, don't confuse Catholics with Protestants. Not all Christians believe that the act of Baptism does anything spiritually. It is a symbol and it shows that we're committing ourselves to Christ. Jesus had people baptized when he was alive and he commanded his disciples to baptize people in his name. If baptism was a purely spiritual thing, it would be impossible for his disciples to baptize people.

Also, it is really only Catholicism that uses physical things and applies spiritual meaning to it. You're not going to find statues of saints in a Baptist church. You're not going to find that Sunday's Jesus in the monstrance in the altar in the Methodist church down the road.

Always remember, not all Christians are Catholic and do Catholic things.

reply to post by badmedia

not an authority figure preaching and telling the people what to accept is truth.

All the pastors that I know are horrified when people just blindly accept what they teach. They always encourage the congregation to investigate for themselves. Also, it's not when we discuss Jesus that he's among us. It is when we gather in his name, Matthew 18.20:

For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.

I can get my wife right now and do a devotional, and Jesus is there among us. I can go to my church down the street here with one of the elders of my church and read the Bible and Jesus is there. When we meet on Sunday morning in the church, since the purpose of a church meeting is Jesus, he's there.

Don't need a physical building at all.

I agree. Like I said, there are churches in my hometown that meet on the beach. But there is nothing wrong with having a building. What's important is that you're meeting with fellow believers and discussing God.

Got me thinking of an old Lenny Bruce routine from the early 1960s where Christ and Moses come back. Hope I've done this link right!