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Pirates of the Mediterranean

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posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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Pirates of the Mediterranean


informationclearinghouse.info

On the eve of one of the most damning reports ever to be published on human rights abuses and suspected war crimes, Israel committed an act of piracy.

While western naval fleets are patrolling the waters off the coast of Africa, acts of piracy are being carried out routinely in the Mediterranean.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
informationclearinghouse.info




posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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Israel routinely targets Palestinian fisherman, whose boats are boarded and catches confiscated.

Now they've "crossed a line" (in other words, done something that might affect people other than mere Palestinians) as it says in the article, by boarding a boat taking humanitarian aid to Gaza, confiscating all the supplies, and kidnapping the people bringing the aid. Which people include Cynthia McKinney, who will no doubt be demonised as a result.

The other article I've linked is the awesome Paul Craig Roberts whose take on this is excellent. His summary alone is an example that the author of the article I posted as a headline (the headline alone was better and more eye-catching).


On June 30, the government of Israel committed an act of piracy when the Israeli Navy in international waters illegally boarded the “Spirit of Humanity,” kidnapped its 21-person crew from 11 countries, including former US Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and Nobel Laureate Mairead MaGuire, and confiscated the cargo of medical supplies, olive trees, reconstruction materials, and children’s toys that were on the way to the Mediterranean coast of Gaza. The “Spirit of Humanity,” along with the kidnapped 21 persons, is being towed to Israel as I write.


informationclearinghouse.info
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 3-7-2009 by rich23]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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So why has this not been reported in the "free" press? A google search reveals little...

According to Yemen Post, a Yemeni cameraman was among those seized on board...


Israeli authorities seized on Wednesday the Free Gaza Movement’s “Spirit of Humanity” ship as it was heading to Gaza Strip.

The ship carries 21 human rights workers from 11 countries including the Yemeni cameraman Mansour Al-Ebbi who works for Al-Jazeerah Satellite Channel. The ship also carries relief materials for people in Gaza.


So far my search has revealed no major news media carrying the story. But we have a decent artilce in American Chronicle:


Reportedly, Israeli forces in the international waters off the coast of Gaza have hijacked a Gaza peace mission of 21 humanitarians on board the boat, "Spirit of Humanity". Israel stopped the mission from delivering food, medicine and toys as a token of international support for the 1.5 million Gazans held under illegal siege since invasion of Gaza in December 2008. At last report, Israeli officials had detained the mission and confiscated the supplies they were attempting to take into Gaza.

The mission includes four Americans but so far mainstream American media in step with international media-boasting of neutrality-has failed to report detention of the American citizens including former U.S. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. Obama has failed to demand immediate release of the Americans. Both US Senate and Congress quick to react in such cases are also quiet.

There's a brief factual article from the International Middle East Media Center

Here's a blog article...

Ramallahonline have an article with suggestions for those who wish to write letters of protest...

Ok I've searched the BBC website and found this, which really vindicates my current disdain for the BBC. It's full of weasel words and apologism...


The 20 passengers include former US congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and Nobel Prize winner Mairead Maguire.

The activists also include some Britons, campaigners said.


I love that... "some Britons". Now, normally, this would be cause for some sort of concern, perhaps trying to find out who these people might be. Innocent tourists trapped in a hurricane get more interest than this.

It's also of the "Small Earthquake in Chile: Not Many Dead" school of journalism.


The Israeli military said the boat was trying to enter Gaza illegally.

Good one. The Israelis don't care about legality.

The US-based Free Gaza Movement has breached the blockade five times since August 2008.

Is it me or does that phrase make the FGM sound like criminals?


Two other attempts by the activist group were stopped by Israeli warships during Israel's three-week military offensive in Gaza in December and January.


So now we have to take their ship away.


Israel keeps a tight hold on Gaza, which is ruled by the militant Palestinian group Hamas.


See what I mean by weasel words? Israel has been perpetrating atrocities in Gaza for months... but you'd never know. They're just "keeping a tight grip" on those naughty Palestinians.


The Israeli military said the passengers and crew of the Greek-registered ship Arion would be handed over to immigration authorities in Ashdod, and its humanitarian aid cargo would be taken to Gaza by road after a security check.


As yet I find no word that this has happened.


The British Foreign Office said on Tuesday it was aware of the situation and was trying to clarify the facts.

"We would be concerned if the stories of the Israeli Navy boarding the boat in international waters were true," a spokesman said.

"We have made it clear to Israel that we are very concerned for the safety of British nationals."


Spoken like a bureaucrat. I'm touched by this spokesman's concern.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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Could this be the Lusitania that brings all major powers into a war? "Spirit of humanity", with 11 foreign diplomats from different countries, all taken captive. This seems like the perfectly engineered opportunity to escelate to a global war... but the obama administration is quiet? i am eagerly awaiting more news on this... as i feel it could be a big one



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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How is it an act of piracy?

I'm pretty sure the Israeli military classifies certain areas in certain ways, which require prior approval to enter and cross, for operational security and the security of their personnel. Standard practice.

Maybe instead of trying to force their way past Israeli vessels an land in Gaza, they should take a land route with prior notice given to Israeli authorities?

Let's be frank here. While it's a shame Israel seized the cargo and what not, the real reason these people are trying to do what they are trying to do is to create a negative image of Israel and to demonize it. They know exactly what the Israeli response will be, yet they still try and do it. Why? So bleeding heart leftist's can moan about Israel.

What do you think would happen to these people if they tried to run a check point in Afghanistan? They'd get shot dead at a certain point on the road.
But nobody will complain about them being shot by ISAF troops.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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i just dont see why anyone would put so many important people from so many different countries on one cargo ship. i know its a big act of charity and is supposed to represent support for the region but... still. I wouldnt put anyone on a boat in those heated waters



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Id say this amounts to an act of international terrorism that has to punished swiftly if not then the US and others are surely abetting terrorists!



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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There had to be people prepared to defend this, of course...


Originally posted by BLV12
How is it an act of piracy?


That would be where they boarded the vessel by force, seized its contents and kidnapped those on board. Did you miss that part?


I'm pretty sure the Israeli military classifies certain areas in certain ways, which require prior approval to enter and cross, for operational security and the security of their personnel. Standard practice.


Who cares? This was in international waters.


Maybe instead of trying to force their way past Israeli vessels an land in Gaza, they should take a land route with prior notice given to Israeli authorities?


Yes, just like George Galloway's convoy a few months ago which was ambushed by Israeli thugs and equipment destroyed and convoy members beaten up while the local (I think Eguyptian) police stood by with their hands in their pockets.


Let's be frank here. While it's a shame Israel seized the cargo and what not, the real reason these people are trying to do what they are trying to do is to create a negative image of Israel and to demonize it.


This is one of the single stupidest things I've ever seen on ATS. And that's something. It also shows that the author simply cannot conceive that people might want simply to help people in Gaza. Oh no, it's all to make Israel look bad. Well guess what? To anyone outside the US media, (which, like its government seems to be pathologically incapable of standing up to the Israelis) Israel alreadly looks bad. Every peace worker killed, every olive grove bulldozed, every small child shot by an Israeli sniper... remember the t-shirts the Israeli army were wearing, the ones with a picture of a pregnant arab woman with a target on her and a caption referring to a "2-for-1" kill?


They know exactly what the Israeli response will be, yet they still try and do it. Why? So bleeding heart leftist's can moan about Israel.


No. Because the people in Gaza need these supplies.

One of the posters in the responses to the Paul Craig Roberts article posted a reference to a concentration camp survivor who is disgusted with Israel and has no difficulty seeing the obvious parallels between what Hitler did to the Jews and what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.

Another poster came back with the fact that the tactics that Israel is using to ethnically cleanse Palestinians are standard for any occupying colonial power. Israel certainly qualifies on that count, but it is ironic that many of the techniques they use (collective punishment and so on) were also used by the Germans.


What do you think would happen to these people if they tried to run a check point in Afghanistan? They'd get shot dead at a certain point on the road.


This analogy is not remotely accurate. The organisers of this mission have been very careful to publicise it as best they can. The boat is slow. It would be more like people walking along towards a checkpoint having already told the soldiers they were coming.


But nobody will complain about them being shot by ISAF troops.


In the event, I think you'll find that people do complain when trigger-happy troops kill. It's just that the US doesn't listen, or report very much on the subject.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Kevin_X2
i just dont see why anyone would put so many important people from so many different countries on one cargo ship. i know its a big act of charity and is supposed to represent support for the region but... still. I wouldnt put anyone on a boat in those heated waters


I think it's called courage. And integrity.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Cynthia McKinney telephone calls from Israeli prison:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Its a Naval Blockade by a flagged, recognized country, which does not fall under “Piracy”.
In order to be Piracy, they have to attack without warning, and not be operating under the flag of a country . A blockaded area is clearly known by anyone wishing to enter the area in advance. This is no different then Kennedy's blockade of Cuba during the missile crisis.

Just to give you a bit of a history lesson on how inaccurate your inflammatory post is, even in the “old days” a ship operating under the blessing of a country doing this activity is not considered a pirate:



A privateer was a private warship authorized by a country's government by letters of marque to attack foreign shipping. Strictly, a privateer was only entitled by its state to attack and rob enemy vessels during wartime. Privateers were part of naval warfare of some nations from the 16th to the 19th century. The crew of a privateer might be treated as prisoners of war by the enemy country if captured.


So, a crew engaging in these types of tactics were not to be held or punished as pirates because they held “letters of Mark”. This is similar to the Geneva Convention protections extending to uniformed soldiers, but not to spies or saboteurs.

There is a LONG Naval History of Blockading areas of conflict, and it has NEVER been considered piracy.

A blockade is an effort to cut off the communications of a particular area by force. It is distinct from a siege in that a blockade is usually directed at an entire country or region, rather than a fortress or city. Also, a blockade historically took place at sea, with the blockading power seeking to cut off all maritime transport from and to the blockaded country. Stopping all land transport to and from an area may also be considered a blockade. Blockades are often partial, with the object of denying the other side its major form of communication or access to key resources.

Close patrol of a hostile port, in order to prevent naval forces from putting to sea, is also referred to as a blockade. When a coastal city or fortress was besieged from the landward side, the besiegers would often blockade the seaward side as well. In the twentieth century, blockades sometimes included stopping all air traffic within the blockaded area. Most recently, blockades have sometimes included cutting off electronic communications by jamming radio signals and severing undersea cables.


Whether or not a blockade was seen as lawful depended on the national laws of the nations whose trade was influenced by the blockade. The Brazilian blockade of Río de la Plata in 1826, for instance, was considered lawful according to British law, but unlawful according to French and American law. The latter two countries announced they would actively defend their ships against Brazilian blockaders, while Britain was forced to steer for a peaceful solution between Brazil and Argentina.

Blockades were first defined in international law at the Congress of Paris in 1856. One of the agreed rules was that a blockade had to be effective in order to be lawful. This banned so-called "paper" blockades (blockades that were declared to the blockaded nation, but were not actively enforced). Such a blockade did, however, allow the blockading party to seize the cargo of neutral states trading with blockaded harbors. At the Declaration of London in 1909 another attempt was made to further protect the rights of neutral traders. The treaty was only ratified by a few nations, preventing any application of the agreements. Parts of it were, however, applied during blockades in World War I. Since 1945, the UN Security Council determines the legal status of blockades and by article 42 of the UN Charter, the Council can also apply blockades.


Of course the point of this thread is more Israel hater propaganda anyway though, isn't it?

[edit on 7/3/2009 by defcon5]



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
Its a Naval Blockade by a flagged, recognized country, which does not fall under “Piracy”.


They've blockaded this ship before, twice. Hijacking it and taking the cargo is still piracy. Your definition is inaccurate, and if you're going to get legalistic about this the situation is much more complex.


In order to be Piracy, they have to attack without warning, and not be operating under the flag of a country.


Source? Or do we just accept your say-so? There doesn't seem to be a source for any of your quotes.


the Mexican War of 1846–48 brought a radical extension of the definition of a pirate. The traditional definition of an independent criminal was broadened to include sailors acting on commissions from foreign nations, if and when their commissions violated U.S. treaties with their government. The Piracy Act of 1847, which established this broader definition, marked the last major change in U.S. piracy law.


source

All your smoke about privateers is simply an effort to distract from what the Israeli government is doing, which is slow genocide. There are no privateers any more, and the distinction - as shown above - is in any case inconsequential.


There is a LONG Naval History of Blockading areas of conflict, and it has NEVER been considered piracy.


So... the attacks on Palestinian fishing boats? They live in this area of conflict, and people have to eat. Go on, defend that one, I dare you.



Most recently, blockades have sometimes included cutting off electronic communications by jamming radio signals and severing undersea cables.


Mmm indeed. Just as the US cut the cables to prevent Iran's oil bourse from trading.



Whether or not a blockade was seen as lawful depended on the national laws of the nations whose trade was influenced by the blockade.


Which leaves Palestine SOL, because might makes right, isn't that correct?


Of course the point of this thread is more Israel hater propaganda anyway though, isn't it?


Why don't you just come out with it and suggest I'm anti-Semitic?

I grew up with the myth of plucky little Israel defending itself from its nasty Arab neighbours. As time has gone on and I've started to pay attention, I've realised that this myth is a long way from the reality. The state of Israel is a fascist regime and unfortunately most of the people there are fine with the disgusting way their Arab countrymen are treated.

The point of this thread is that Israel, yet again, is getting away with stuff that would be the cause of international censure if it were being done by the hate figures we're all supposed to fear. If Iran captured and confiscated a ship bearing food aid for the starving, there would be a HUGE fuss. But because it's Israel... nothing.

One doesn't have to hate Israel to hate the things its government does. And one doesn't have to hate Israel or Jewish people to require that the same standards apply to everybody.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
There had to be people prepared to defend this, of course...


Originally posted by BLV12
How is it an act of piracy?


That would be where they boarded the vessel by force, seized its contents and kidnapped those on board. Did you miss that part?


Aint it odd how those pushing the anti-Israeli agenda, always ignore other possibilities? It's always 'one way' with them.



I'm pretty sure the Israeli military classifies certain areas in certain ways, which require prior approval to enter and cross, for operational security and the security of their personnel. Standard practice.


Who cares? This was in international waters.


Maybe you should care, if your going to continue pushing the anti-Israeli agenda. Because if it is the case as I suspect, then it is their own fault.


Maybe instead of trying to force their way past Israeli vessels an land in Gaza, they should take a land route with prior notice given to Israeli authorities?


Yes, just like George Galloway's convoy a few months ago which was ambushed by Israeli thugs and equipment destroyed and convoy members beaten up while the local (I think Eguyptian) police stood by with their hands in their pockets.


So now your next allegation is the Egyptian police are in on it with the Israeli defence force?


Let's be frank here. While it's a shame Israel seized the cargo and what not, the real reason these people are trying to do what they are trying to do is to create a negative image of Israel and to demonize it.


This is one of the single stupidest things I've ever seen on ATS. And that's something. It also shows that the author simply cannot conceive that people might want simply to help people in Gaza. Oh no, it's all to make Israel look bad. Well guess what? To anyone outside the US media, (which, like its government seems to be pathologically incapable of standing up to the Israelis) Israel alreadly looks bad. Every peace worker killed, every olive grove bulldozed, every small child shot by an Israeli sniper... remember the t-shirts the Israeli army were wearing, the ones with a picture of a pregnant arab woman with a target on her and a caption referring to a "2-for-1" kill?


Nah, one of the stupidest thing's ever on ATS is the continued unjustified anti-Israeli crap people like you keep posting. There is a lot of stuff to be justifiably angry about, but you have chosen an issue which is the fault of those who tried to force their way through a military force. The very people you support are the ones guilty in this instance, not the Israeli defence force.


They know exactly what the Israeli response will be, yet they still try and do it. Why? So bleeding heart leftist's can moan about Israel.


No. Because the people in Gaza need these supplies.


So because the people in Gaza need supplies, that justifies ignoring the presence of the Israeli defence force and the work they are doing to provide security to the state of Israel from Arab and Iranian backed terror groups and militias which love to launch countless rocket attacks into Israeli suburbs?

The next time there is road side alcohol testing on your way home, try and drive through instead of stopping. See what happens. Same principle here. If you can understand why you would stop road side alcohol testing, you should understand that what these people did was wrong.



One of the posters in the responses to the Paul Craig Roberts article posted a reference to a concentration camp survivor who is disgusted with Israel and has no difficulty seeing the obvious parallels between what Hitler did to the Jews and what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.

Another poster came back with the fact that the tactics that Israel is using to ethnically cleanse Palestinians are standard for any occupying colonial power. Israel certainly qualifies on that count, but it is ironic that many of the techniques they use (collective punishment and so on) were also used by the Germans.


It was only a matter of time before at some stage in your post you would bring up such totally irrelevant nonsense.
You started a thread about some activists and whatnot trying to land in Gaza but being stopped by the Israeli navy. You then realise you will loose such an argument where you take the side of the activists, so you attempt to blur the argument with this.
Typical of leftists.


What do you think would happen to these people if they tried to run a check point in Afghanistan? They'd get shot dead at a certain point on the road.


This analogy is not remotely accurate. The organisers of this mission have been very careful to publicise it as best they can. The boat is slow. It would be more like people walking along towards a checkpoint having already told the soldiers they were coming.


Doesn't matter if they publicised it to the outer reaches of the solar system, the fact remains they did not have clearance from the Israeli Defence Force to enter the area, an area which is technically a war zone with ongoing military operations.

If fighting had broken out and they were caught in the middle and killed or injured, you'd be moaning that the Israeli defence force targeted them on purpose.


But nobody will complain about them being shot by ISAF troops.


In the event, I think you'll find that people do complain when trigger-happy troops kill. It's just that the US doesn't listen, or report very much on the subject.

So you think it's perfectly fine to attempt to run a military road block in a war zone?


God, leftists make me sick.
Most so called "leftists" have no idea what cause they are supporting, they just go with the flow, with what's currently the "in" thing to bash and moan over.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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Was the incident in international waters.
If it was in international waters then it's piracy.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 09:45 AM
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Please try and keep your quotes and mine sorted, it helps when replying.


Originally posted by BLV12

Originally posted by rich23
That would be where they boarded the vessel by force, seized its contents and kidnapped those on board. Did you miss that part?


Aint it odd how those pushing the anti-Israeli agenda, always ignore other possibilities? It's always 'one way' with them.


Sorry... did the Israeli forces not do those things? Are Cynthia McKinney and her colleagues NOT currently in an Israeli jail? Are there other alternatives I haven't considered? Perhaps Aliens are to blame?


Originally posted by BLV12

Originally posted by rich23
Who cares? This was in international waters.


Maybe you should care, if your going to continue pushing the anti-Israeli agenda. Because if it is the case as I suspect, then it is their own fault.


The Israelis are doing illegal things in international waters. You're trying to justify their actions. The reason I say "who cares" is because, whatever their justifications, their actions are piratical.



Originally posted by rich23
Yes, just like George Galloway's convoy a few months ago which was ambushed by Israeli thugs and equipment destroyed and convoy members beaten up while the local (I think Egyptian) police stood by with their hands in their pockets.


Originally posted by BLV12
So now your next allegation is the Egyptian police are in on it with the Israeli defence force?


I'm just quoting eyewitness accounts of what happened. Perhaps the people on that humanitarian aid convoy beat themselves up. Perhaps the police who stood by were off duty. Who knows?

Here's a Times article about the attack.

Here's an eyewitness account.


Egyptian police are obviously not used to confronting stroppy westerners in such large numbers and so they retreated while a second wave was sent in. Hundreds of riot squad officers, wearing visors, carrying shields and batons tumbled in to one of the two car parks in a large town centre compound in the port of al Arish and set about the unarmed peace activists.
.....
Suddenly the area was plunged into darkness by a powercut which coincided with a brick, bottle and stone attacks on the convoy members by youths in their late teens and 20s. Seconds before the lights went out some convoy members saw a couple of unidentified men scrawling anti-Hamas slogans on lorries.

The lights remained out for some minutes, during which time the vicious attack was unleashed - the whole proceedings failed to warrant one single Egyptian police officer to swing his baton into action.

Those who had wielded their sticks with such a passion before, stood impassively by and watched the onslaught.



Originally posted by BLV12

Originally posted by rich23
This is one of the single stupidest things I've ever seen on ATS. And that's something. It also shows that the author simply cannot conceive that people might want simply to help people in Gaza. Oh no, it's all to make Israel look bad. Well guess what? To anyone outside the US media, (which, like its government seems to be pathologically incapable of standing up to the Israelis) Israel alreadly looks bad. Every peace worker killed, every olive grove bulldozed, every small child shot by an Israeli sniper... remember the t-shirts the Israeli army were wearing, the ones with a picture of a pregnant arab woman with a target on her and a caption referring to a "2-for-1" kill?


Nah, one of the stupidest thing's ever on ATS is the continued unjustified anti-Israeli crap people like you keep posting. There is a lot of stuff to be justifiably angry about, but you have chosen an issue which is the fault of those who tried to force their way through a military force.


The attentive reader will note that this is not a reply to any of the points I've raised. This issue is one of many, and they are all linked. Israel is attempting genocide on the Palestinians and people like you want them to be able to carry it out.



Originally posted by BLV12
So because the people in Gaza need supplies, that justifies ignoring the presence of the Israeli defence force and the work they are doing to provide security to the state of Israel from Arab and Iranian backed terror groups and militias which love to launch countless rocket attacks into Israeli suburbs?


I'd suggest you take a careful reasoned look at the way your media reports the issue. Studies have shown that US reporting is very, very biased indeed. Not only do rocket attacks get more airtime than all the Palestinian deaths (which outstrip Israeli deaths by a huge factor), but often, Israeli deaths are reported more than once.

You're just a propaganda victim. You could help it, but you won't.


Originally posted by BLV12
The next time there is road side alcohol testing on your way home, try and drive through instead of stopping. See what happens. Same principle here. If you can understand why you would stop road side alcohol testing, you should understand that what these people did was wrong.


This is such a wrong-headed analogy it defies rational comment beyond that the people in the convoy were trying to save lives.

You're coming across as someone who loves living in a police state, you know. Obey ze rules or it's ze cooler for you, Johnny Englishmann...


Originally posted by BLV12
It was only a matter of time before at some stage in your post you would bring up such totally irrelevant nonsense.
You started a thread about some activists and whatnot trying to land in Gaza but being stopped by the Israeli navy. You then realise you will loose such an argument where you take the side of the activists, so you attempt to blur the argument with this.
Typical of leftists.


My, your ignorance knows no bounds. Have you any idea who Paul Craig Roberts is? He was assistant Treasury Secretary to Ronald Reagan. What kind of a bleeding-heart liberal does that make him?

Calling PCR a bleeding-heart liberal is fantastic. Thank you very much for that, you couldn't have shot yourself in the foot better if I were there to guide your hand.

The article I wanted to post originally was his, but I used the other article because ATS makes you use the title of the article, and PCR's title wasn't so snappy. So far from bringing it in late, it was there from the first. You might not see the relevance of the comments, but that doesn't surprise me.


Originally posted by BLV12
Doesn't matter if they publicised it to the outer reaches of the solar system, the fact remains they did not have clearance from the Israeli Defence Force to enter the area, an area which is technically a war zone with ongoing military operations.


Please provide evidence to back this claim. Against whom did Israel declare war? If it's technically a war zone, who recognises it? I guess it might still be a war zone from the time the Israeli Air Force attacked the USS Liberty...


Originally posted by BLV12
If fighting had broken out and they were caught in the middle and killed or injured, you'd be moaning that the Israeli defence force targeted them on purpose.


What, fighting between the Israeli and Palestinian navies? What fantasy world are you living in?

This exchange reveals that you simply can't think straight:


Originally posted by BLV12
But nobody will complain about them being shot by ISAF troops.


Originally posted by rich23
In the event, I think you'll find that people do complain when trigger-happy troops kill. It's just that the US doesn't listen, or report very much on the subject.


So you think it's perfectly fine to attempt to run a military road block in a war zone?


Even the mildly inattentive readership that characterises so much of ATS might notice that I didn't say it was ok to run a roadbolock. I said that US troops killing people at roadblocks goes under-reported, in the US at any rate. What your excuse for making such an assumption is, I don't know.


God, leftists make me sick.
Most so called "leftists" have no idea what cause they are supporting, they just go with the flow, with what's currently the "in" thing to bash and moan over.


First, I'm not a leftist. Second, the facts are on my side. Readers will note that I can, if pressed, back up any assertion I make with reference to facts. You don't bother. You also cannot follow the simplest logic, and leap to conclusions that are completely erroneous.

That sounds like a classic case of right wing authoritarianism to me.

Of the observable traits in the article, you've furnished ample evidence of possessing several, most notably absolutism, faulty reasoning, and hatred towards outgroups.

There's also the callousness suggested by the obvious inference from your posts: you don't care if the people of Gaza are starved by the Israeli government. The idea that two wrongs don't make a right obviously passed you by somewhere.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by rich23]



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