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Was Jesus of the bible the real Jesus

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posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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Since i began to doubt religion,i started to research this question .........did Jesus really exist ,and if so was he the same man portrayed in the bible.

There is lots and lots of conflicting information,i have even tried reading gnostic writings.

I really do not know what to think ....any ideas.:bnghd:




posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Does it matter? Do you realize you are asking for someone to say something you can accept? It's not about acceptance, it's about understanding.

Since it's about understanding, then what is important is not if he was real and such. What is important is that you can understand and know what he is saying for yourself. Afterall, no matter what it's always going to be a story to you correct? As we were not personally there, all we have to go by is the story itself.

Always keep that in mind IMO. Understanding, not acceptence. Proverbs talks about these things a good bit, I highly recommend Proverbs.

www.biblegateway.com...



10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.


So what is the difference? This is easiest to explain in terms of math. I say this all the time, but apparently I can't say it enough. You understand math and how to add, so we can see the difference in that.


A man can accept that 1+1=2 is true. A man can memorize that, repeat it and preach and and claim to be speaking the "truth". And technically, if a man says 1+1=2 is true, then they are right. However, that is different than the man who actually understands math and how to add. Just because someone is able to repeat those words, doesn't mean they understand math. Because they have accepted, rather than understanding they are unable to apply it to their lives.

So the man who merely accepted and memorized 1+1=2 is still a blind fool. Because they lack understanding. But the man who understands math, he knows why 1+1=2, and he knows many other true expressions in math as well.

It is the understanding that is important, it is the understanding, not the literal expression of that understanding that is "holy".

Seek understanding, rather than looking for worldly authorities to accept. Seek understanding of who and what you are, "know thyself". Understanding and knowledge is how the father gives.



Proverbs 8
8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

....

17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.


Doubt is "good". Doubt is an admission that you do not understand. Of course, it's only "good" if you seek to fix that doubt by gaining understanding. But honesty is one of the first steps of gaining wisdom, and it is honest to simply admit - "I do not know". It is very very respectable IMO, and I wish more people would do it. It says to me - you are having a hard time simply accepting. And for good reason too.

The father is within you. The father who knows all is within. And the father gives in terms of understanding, rather than acceptance. What you are honestly doing is you are looking at outside authorities to accept. And they way they are presented, is contrary to good understanding. Because of that, it leads to confusion. You are being asked to accept things that are not understandable.

Pay close attention to the words accept and understand in the following verses.



Psalm 82

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.


See it? Those who accept, do not understand. What did we establish in Proverbs 9? That knowledge of the holy is understanding.

All your answers can be found within. Search within yourself for them. Trust them over the words of men. Trust the father within, not men. You do NOT need the bible. I gained all that I understand separate of the bible. But of course, as you can see - once that understanding is gained, then the bible will make a bit more sense.

What do you search for? "Jesus"? Not really in the way it is presented. I will give you one of the "keys" to the bible here.



6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


On the outside, it sounds like it means "accept Jesus". Only if you "accept Jesus" can you come to the father. However, here is the key and wisdom. Jesus is saying he is those things for a reason. He is the "way", the "truth", and the "life". It means these 3 things are interchangeable with the word "Jesus". So, the way to the father it too seek those things. Not a physical or literal Jesus, but to seek those 3 things.

So, seek those 3 things within. These are the things I was searching for when I found the father. I did not even know the bible talked in these ways at the time. I looked out into the world and I was distraught. I asked, how can people live amongst each other without all this death and destruction and in peace. I didn't realize it, but I was actually seeking the way. But I no longer trusted men, or what they would say, so that left me to rely on my own understanding, and thus I started to put my trust not in men, but on the father within. From that point, a whole new world opened up.

So, ask yourself that question. What do people need to do in order to have a peaceful society. Not what "system" or things to do they need to "conform" too, plenty of those ideas around where 1 man serves another. But how can all the people live in peace without such things as that? I'll bet you'll start to see the path and the way open up to you.

I wish I could do more for you, but men can't give understanding to each other directly. We can only express the understandings we gain. Once understanding is gained, your entire perspective on the world will change. You will start to see through people and their scams.

Good luck, I'll be happy to answer any questions and such for you. But of course, in doing so you are still looking externally, rather than within. All I can really do is point out the flaws and wrongs about acceptance and point you in the right direction. The rest is a personal journey that you must do for yourself.

You are closer than you think however. As I said earlier, you've already taken some of the hardest steps.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by illece

Since i began to doubt religion,i started to research this question .........did Jesus really exist ,and if so was he the same man portrayed in the bible.

There is lots and lots of conflicting information,i have even tried reading gnostic writings.

I really do not know what to think ....any ideas.:bnghd:


1. Did Jesus really exist?
I don't know, nor does anyone. He might have, but then again he is probably just a newer name of an old figure. Yes, 2000 years isn't exactly new, but since there were wise and enlightened men way before him, then it is new. Real or not, I don't see him as the "son of god" anyway, or anything divine, but to me he is under philosopher status.

2. If he did exist, was he the same man protrayed in the bible?
Same anwer, I don't know, nor does anyone. If he did actually exist, then I say no. The bible has been re-written so many times who knows what the original was like. In 2000 years, anyone along the way could have added their own piece to it.

Of course it's all confusing, and this goes with my answer to question number two. In all these years, there have been so many writings, theories, etc on Jesus, that even the followers are confused. So many branches of Christianity is evidence of this. I'm someone who is studying religion from an academic point of view anyway, and if you do it that way, it might save you a little bit less of headaches. lol. Good luck in your quest.



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 

Hi badmedia,

you are of course correct i am hoping for something i can except,and i really don't understand.I Dont understand religion i don't know what to believe ,i don't even know if i understand my own motive for searching!!



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 

Hi badmedia,

you are of course correct i am hoping for something i can except,and i really don't understand.I Dont understand religion i don't know what to believe ,i don't even know if i understand my own motive for searching!!



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Darth Lumina
 


Sorry about double post ,it went before i finished when i edited it got second post.......

it seems you have been reading much of the same info that i have ! i do find it confusing ,that is why like you i have tried the academic approach,with little success



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by illece
 


Seek the truth, and listen to yourself. Don't deny things of yourself, you already have all the answers to your questions. If you want to run away from them, then you can find something to accept, but you are probably having troubles because you know better.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by illece Since i began to doubt religion,i started to research this question .........did Jesus really exist ,and if so was he the same man portrayed in the bible. There is lots and lots of conflicting information,i have even tried reading gnostic writings. I really do not know what to think ....any ideas
There is this thing called the revelation of Jesus Christ. It is a book containing portents of things to take place, but it is also the giving of understanding what was hidden.
Blessings on the reader are promised.
Jesus is in Heaven acting as God of the Christians. The father has given him all power. It is describe in a symbolic way as the lamb who was slain being handed the scroll by the hand of God on His throne.
A lot of people were killed in unjust ways in the world. It should not come as a surprise that this also happened to Jesus. Jesus the person is lost in a sea of upheaval. His teachings remained and the witnesses to his existence. It is not likely anything else will present itself as evidence.
We need to focus on the present day Jesus and what he is doing. Jesus is our representative and pleads our acceptance on the virtue of his blood. The Holy Spirit is our guide into knowledge. Use that gift to feel assured that our salvation is held in safe keeping by the highest power in existence, which has been given to Jesus. Nothing could cause him to loose any who his Father has given him.


[edit on 6-7-2009 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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hey

IMO Jesus lived for shure. The only lie is that he was the only "son of god".
As he said: God is in us, and all arround us.
What means that?
For me, its simple: We all have god in us. We all would be like Jesus if we would have the right view.

Was Jesus real?

Guess thats a point of believing. We all dont know what happened 2000 years ago, but there must lived a man called Jesus, who changed the world. Imo...

Yesterday i heard a great argument into telly:

"Religion bring a wedge between the people,
Believing bring people together."

So you can believe that Jesus exist, or not. Its your believe!!! nothing more.
But please: Dont say that only those who believe in Jesus come into heaven, cause thats not true, and then you are nothing more as all the other religions, who want to be the best.
Everybody who has a good heart and look forward to do his/her best, will find heaven. Its not a question of religion. Its a heart-question.

NW



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by NW111
 

The only lie is that he was the only "son of god".

Jesus was the one sent from God.
We can become the sons of God.
We may all go to heaven, those who mean to do good in an unselfish way.
But it would only be because of Jesus, whether we believe in him or not.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


why it will be?
why it would?

isnt it now?
whatelse shall be life? I mean. We are Jesus.
and yes, he was the son of god. but we dont become it.. we still are it




posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 






Originally posted by Badmedia
Does it matter? Do you realize you are asking for someone to say something you can accept? It's not about acceptance, it's about understanding.


Hi Badmedia

I think it does matter. I will try to explain why I think this.

I believe the OP is trying to establish, first, through historical evidence, if Jesus is real before moving towards any understanding or acceptance of Jesus teachings, in the Bible.

You are right in what you say, in that it is about understanding but it is through understanding that we learn and can come to accept certain things to be true or untrue.




Originally posted by Badmedia
A man can accept that 1+1=2 is true. A man can memorize that, repeat it and preach and and claim to be speaking the "truth". And technically, if a man says 1+1=2 is true, then they are right. However, that is different than the man who actually understands math and how to add. Just because someone is able to repeat those words, doesn't mean they understand math. Because they have accepted, rather than understanding they are unable to apply it to their lives.


I agree with this, but let’s turn the mathematical analogy around a bit.


“A man can accept that 1+1=2 is true.” Ok this is a fairly straight, forward statement, but what if there were no such things as numbers i.e. they didn’t exist!! as numbers and were just patterns on a page. A person now learning and trying to understand numbers and why 1+1=2, might think to himself/herself, what is the point of trying to learn and develop an understanding of this, if numbers don’t or might not, exist.

My point is, if Jesus did not exist, then what would be the point of trying to understand and accept his teachings? …this is a rhetorical question but you may answer it if you wish…

Don’t get me wrong, I do agree with a lot of things you have said in your second post, especially about looking into yourself for answers and not always trusting what men have to say. Although having said that, God can speak through people at any time, and in many different ways.



Originally posted by Badmedia
You do NOT need the bible. I gained all that I understand separate of the bible.


The above statement really has me intrigued
How did you gain that understanding, without the bible?



- JC



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by illece
 


Hi illece/

"Sophia" translated from the Greek means "Divine Wisdom".
As used in the Bible this term designates a general attribute of Divinity, His all-wise authority, as well as His superior reason.
Wisdom, "Which created everything that was created", -- of the uncreated, un originate Wisdom, Wisdom without beginning i.e. of Christ,
because Christ is God's Power and God's Wisdom (1 Cor. 1,24) [140].
However,
the pseudo-wisdom of this world chose to see a special,
spiritual personal being in the Old Testament term of "Sophia".

"But there be some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we,
or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than
that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed" (Gal. 1, 7-8).
The prophecy of the Apostle that "in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be... having a form of godliness,
but denying the power thereof" (2 Tim. 3, 1-5).
Before our own eyes mankind is increasingly failing to understand why the Scriptures are called sacred,
and that it is "given by inspiration of God" (2 Tim. 3,16)
and "is not after man" (Gal. 1, 11)...Falsifications of the Scriptures are heretical and SHOULD be avoided,Satan is the father of all LIES and was from the beginning...avoid his teachings and avoid untruths!
~FALSIFICATIONS OF SCRIPTURES~AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE~~~

ICXC NIKA
helen



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