Britain Asks Allies for Help on Employees Held in Iran

Well Slayer my friend there have been some interesting developments on the Iranian front and this one in particular today.

The Mullahs do intend to try at least one, possibly two of the Britons they are detaining.

That of course could go down either way. They could simply stage a show trial to publicly make the Britons admit complicity whether actually complicit or not and then release them as a gesture of good will after finding them guilty.

Or they could stage a show trial and imprison or execute them yet likely knowing this would almost certainly lead to a military reprisal.

I don't think the powers that be want to take a chance on an internal revolution bringing a cabal or group into power they might not completely control or to let Iran disintigrate into chaos through such a lengthy process and the PTB's CIA/MI6 and possibly even the Mullahs in cahoots with them would like it to be a decisive type of takeover likely in a way that lets them put the Shah's son back into a position of Royal Power with some kind of weak elected puppet prime minister or president to put a democratic face on things.

In my humble oppinion the mullahs are in collusion with the Western Powers that Be if after the trial they impose a penalty that will justify the war, that thanks to the brief yet dubious student rebellion the Western nations now favor a bit more than the lets bomb Iran because they might be making Nukes of before the election.

I harsh penalty imposed would likely sway public oppinion solidly on the side of intervention.

The mullahs would know this and I do not think would do that unless they too are in on the regime change for some reason.

Odder looking things do happen though in the Great Game don't they my friend?

If it moves forward this issue will probably be the one to propel it forward...dangerous Islamic nation wants to nuclear arm...totalitarian regim brutally supresses student dissident movement who claim rigged election...western diplomats falsley accused of spying and staging it, sentenced to a lengthy prison term or death...

That's the kind of thing the...but there are WMD's crowd lives for.

The might finally be able to get enough lipstick on this pig yet to pull it off.

Originally posted by Haydn_17
So you agree with people being put on trial just because they work for the british embassy.

They will probaly be sent to jail for 100 years but who cares right.

Not our problem.

No because they are charged with treason and conspiracy - I do not think you will find anywhere a quote or inference that they have been charged simply for working at the UK embassy - hence you are simply muck racking and trolling. Both of which are not allowed.

Originally posted by logicalview

Originally posted by Mdv2

Not to speak of the millions of Americans and Brits whom portrayed the French and Germans as foolish cowards.

Really! Care to show us where that information came from?

The US repeatedly called for "French Fries" to be changed to freedom fries - and there are plenty of references of Senior US politicians making direct and disparaging remarks against the French - thats why the French are so arrogant at the current humiliating US withdrawal - how embarrassing for the US - just waiting for Afghanistan and Pakistan - that will make it a hat trick of failures - US - cowards who cant fight.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



A rambling and confused post.

Here is what is happening and how things will pan out -

Iran is prosecuting these Iranian citizens (no country will invade Iran for executing their own citizens - that's about as stupid a post I have ever read) - these Iranian citizens will have access to the goings on inside the embassy and activities of UK intelligence and of course CIA and MOK. The threats of prosecution will reveal the role the UK and US played in the deomstrations - and force the UK back down which is already occurring as in the case of Neda.

The US and UK are going to push for a further war with IRan - this will not stop until there is regime change - this will occur via Iraq.

The transition to Iraqi self governance will be marked by internal violence as an internal power struggle emerges. This power struggle will rise into a civil war provoked of course by the UK and US - all of this will be blamed on Iran and Iraqi stability and democracy will be the excuse raised for another invasion of Iran.

Originally posted by audas
thats why the French are so arrogant at the current humiliating US withdrawal - how embarrassing for the US - just waiting for Afghanistan and Pakistan - that will make it a hat trick of failures - US - cowards who cant fight.

Well unlike French weapons whenever they surrendered At least "Our" weapons have been fired. Humiliating withdrawal? This has been planned years in advance and will not be finished for another few years. So please lets get real here. I hardly call that a Cowardly act. Unlike REAL humiliating withdrawals I mean surrenders by the French.

Far from it.



[edit on 3-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by audas

Originally posted by logicalview

Originally posted by Mdv2

Not to speak of the millions of Americans and Brits whom portrayed the French and Germans as foolish cowards.

Really! Care to show us where that information came from?

The US repeatedly called for "French Fries" to be changed to freedom fries - and there are plenty of references of Senior US politicians making direct and disparaging remarks against the French - thats why the French are so arrogant at the current humiliating US withdrawal - how embarrassing for the US - just waiting for Afghanistan and Pakistan - that will make it a hat trick of failures - US - cowards who cant fight.

I never portrayed the Germans as cowards but the FRENCH?

At least the US is able to make a "humiliating withdrawal". The French don't because by the time the enemy is at the gates, they're so scared their legs won't work. Can't even lean on their unfired rifles and HOBBLE away.

The French aren't arrogant over what fried potatoes are called in America. They're arrogant because they're FRENCH. That's just their way.

To be honest, the French don't even place last in a discussion of whether or not a war can be won.

They're afraid to enter the race.

That illustrates their value as "allies" to the Brits. As an old American saying goes, "with friends like that, who needs enemies?" The last time the French were a serious threat OR viable ally in a war was in Napoleon's day. Waterloo? Wellington? I don't think the Brits really seriously expected any French "help".

[edit on 2009/7/3 by nenothtu]

Blimey, some shocking stereotypes, xenophobia and bigotry appearing in this thread.

Maybe the Americans in this thread should remember that they would not have been able to kick the British out without their French friends.

The French should also remember who helped to liberate their country in living history.

France are the closest allies to the UK outside of the US and since Sarkozy came to power rivalling the UK as the closest European friend to the US.

We are all supposedly friends here. Force is not always the best way as us Europeans have learned.


[edit on 3/7/09 by DeepCoverUK]

reply to post by DeepCoverUK



Star for you

I can only speak for myself.

Afghanistan is very serious business. Many of us are very aware of the history behind the region. Half of us here in the US support the effort and the troops. The other half do not support the effort but support the troops either way. We are very aware of the consequences and I for one do get a bit defensive. My son came back from Iraq a little over 3 months ago and for me The Iraq issue was over as far as I'm concerned when he left.

Afghanistan has not been played out yet and has not been given the support it needed from the beginning. It just seemed a bit hypocritical to me to hear that type of rhetoric from a Frenchmen.

Originally posted by DeepCoverUK
Blimey, some shocking stereotypes, xenophobia and bigotry appearing in this thread.

S'ok, I'm used to having barbs tossed at me, and labels applied to me.

Maybe the Americans in this thread should remember that they would not have been able to kick the British out without their French friends.

I've not forgotten that. You'll notice I said the French haven't been a viable fighting force since the Napoleonic Wars. Pretty sure that the American Revolution was before that, when they WERE still a viable fighting force.

The French should also remember who helped to liberate their country in living history.

Which means the debt of the US left over from the Revolution has been repaid. No reason to keep smiling and nodding as they heap insult and abuse upon us. It's ok to respond in kind now.

France are the closest allies to the UK outside of the US and since Sarkozy came to power rivalling the UK as the closest European friend to the US.

I guess the US is pretty much toast in Europe if that's the case. We ought to close all our European bases and pull our troops out NOW. Or maybe YESTERDAY.

We are all supposedly friends here. Force is not always the best way as us Europeans have learned.

That being the case, Europeans shouldn't have a problem with the US pulling our armed forces out. Force is the sole purpose of armed forces, so obviously Europe doesn't need ours anymore. They've evolved beyond that. Everybody wins.

As I've said before, numerous times on several threads, friends don't always remain friends, and enemies don't always remain enemies. After the French display of "friendship" towards the US, I'd say our time is past.

reply to post by DeepCoverUK

Exactly. Never mind the fact that France and Germany have huge and angry Muslim populations, many of them Iranian, to contend with. They've been fighting and rioting in the streets openly for several years in factional groups and with the Neo-Naizs, setting them all off at once would be detrimental to national stability.

Britain and the US should have thought this one through if they really did instigate some of the riots and it is starting to sound more and more like they did. I really think Neda was a work, kind of convenient how these things always happen on camera.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by DeepCoverUK

 

Exactly. Never mind the fact that France and Germany have huge and angry Muslim populations,

Then if that's truly the case then why is "France" Wanting to banish the "burka"
Having a large "Muslim" populations shouldn't really have that big of an impact on their societies. We have millions of Muslims right here in the US You don't see that type of chaos do you?

reply to post by SLAYER69

From what I understand there are several reasons for banning the burqa. One is that it obscures facial identity and some adherents refuse to remove it for picture IDs, the same as in the US. Florida went through the courts about this same issue regarding headdresses last year. The burqa definitley is a sign of oppression, it has no place in western society, but they also are trying to ban the wearing of hijab and montoe in public. I see the point, it is a symbolic way of fighting religious and cultural intrusion that is leading to the open introduction of sharia law like in Britain. The difference is France is a staunchly Catholic country and Catholic nations are far more intolerant to outside religious practices despite being heavily involved in colonization. France also appears to have more Muslims connected to extremist activities in the Middle East than England, one side effect of the liberal immigration policy.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by DeepCoverUK

 

Exactly. Never mind the fact that France and Germany have huge and angry Muslim populations,

Then if that's truly the case then why is "France" Wanting to banish the "burka"
Having a large "Muslim" populations shouldn't really have that big of an impact on their societies. We have millions of Muslims right here in the US You don't see that type of chaos do you?

France should have stuck to Charles Martel's policy at Tours, and they wouldn't have that problem .

Nor wold they be afeared to join their "allies" in the "War on Terror", or whatever they're calling it now, because they might get trounced by a minority immigrant population.

@nenothtu, well if the shoe fits. I am sure that you do not mind labels, as you seem happy to label every French citizen as an arrogant coward.

I am sure that countries without a viable fighting force are often awarded permanent membership of the UN Security Council. Please do go and study what the strength of the French military may be. Can you even locate this country on a map?

Your bigotry and ignorance are just perpetuating the myth that all Americans are mildly retarded now.

@Slayer69, fair play to you for being honest. Just because someone was being stupid doesn’t mean that you should sink to their level, don’t fall for their bating that is pretty obvious for anyone to see.

There is a higher percentage of Muslim population in France, Britain and Germany and unfortunately they are not as well integrated with the rest of society as maybe they should be (this is what the whole burka thing is about). These people do have mixed loyalties and there have been race riots in Britain and France the last few years for this very reason. I guess the easiest way to explain it would be for you to imagine if the US went to war with Mexico, a lot of people would have mixed loyalties there.

reply to post by DeepCoverUK


The problem with FRANCE IMO is that they have had an Identity crises of sorts for the past 40 years or so. They are no longer a world power although they would like others to believe that. They all too often try to be all things to all people and often find themselves trying to play both sides of an issue. It just doesn't work that way. Some may feel the "Burqa" is demeaning to females. Yeah I agree but that is my perspective as a western male.

I like how Obama put it in his speech in Cairo, that it should be the females decision to either wear it or not. As far as I understand it some women actually choose to follow those traditions so who am I to say who should wear what?

If France is so worried about offending it's Muslim population I think this is a sure fire way to do it. Meanwhile they don't want to do anything about an Allie in need out of fear of offending these very same people?


French hypocrisy anyone?

[edit on 4-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by DeepCoverUK
@nenothtu, well if the shoe fits. I am sure that you do not mind labels, as you seem happy to label every French citizen as an arrogant coward.

Naw, just the native born ones. I'm sure some immigrants have no fears much. Otherwise, the arrogant Fenchmen wouldn't fear THEM.

I am sure that countries without a viable fighting force are often awarded permanent membership of the UN Security Council. Please do go and study what the strength of the French military may be. Can you even locate this country on a map?

Membership on the UN security council as proof of bravery? You ARE joking, right? Ever dealt much with UN "peacekeepers"? Yeah, I thought not. Study the strength of the French military? that ought to take up a good 3 minutes. How about I just take the word of Germans for it? They ought to know. Or I could just look at French military activity of late... nope.

What's a "map"?

Your bigotry and ignorance are just perpetuating the myth that all Americans are mildly retarded now.

Good. Maybe you folks will leave us alone as the worthless, "retarded", cowards we are! You know the word "retard" is not politcally correct these days, right?

@Slayer69, fair play to you for being honest. Just because someone was being stupid doesn’t mean that you should sink to their level, don’t fall for their bating that is pretty obvious for anyone to see.

I reckon that "stupid someone" was me. Your right, slayer69 IS a whole lot brighter than I. He might be able to teach me something some day, but then I may not have the intelligence to retain it. I don't consider it "baiting" when I'm stricken and I strike back, but whatever floats your boat is fine with me.

There is a higher percentage of Muslim population in France, Britain and Germany and unfortunately they are not as well integrated with the rest of society as maybe they should be (this is what the whole burka thing is about). These people do have mixed loyalties and there have been race riots in Britain and France the last few years for this very reason. I guess the easiest way to explain it would be for you to imagine if the US went to war with Mexico, a lot of people would have mixed loyalties there.

Speaking of the 'burqa" question - Al Qaida just threatened France over the burqa issue. Let's see how THAT plays out. Hope they don't have to ask anyone for help over it.

France's muslim population, and their degree of integration, is not MY concern. The French ought to look after that, but they were probably too busy bashing us "arrogant Americans". Too bad for them.

If their people have divided loyalties, they might want to see to that, before it gets out of hand. Of course if it DOES get out of hand, France will no longer be a Catholic nation. Their own muslims will eat them like candy.

Can't see the Mexicans doing it that easily here, but most of the Mexicans I know are good people, so I'm not really worried they'd try.

Maybe in California.



[edit on 2009/7/4 by nenothtu]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Whilst I agree that people should be allowed to wear what they like, a lot of women in France are not wearing these garments for religious reasons, more to signify ‘I am not one of you’ kind of like someone wearing a ‘down with the USA’ t-shirt, this obviously only heightens tensions and goes against the whole ‘Liberty, Equality, Fraternity’ thing.

The French are usually a pretty militant bunch, ready to strike, riot and protest for the smallest reason. Just look at the recent protests they had there, nothing like your fairly civilised tea parties.

It always seems to me that there are a lot of people there at the ends of the political spectrum also, there are a lot of simpering liberals on the verge of communism, but there are also a surprising number of far right racists also. A far right politician got pretty far in their presidential elections recently. There is a lot of tension under the surface. I think that you are correct about the identity crisis.

Under Sarkozy a lot has and will change for France. He seems to want France more involved with the international community, recently speaking out against Israeli aggression despite the rumors of his Mossad connection and also against Iran. He has also embarked on an epic battle against the very strong unions.

Originally posted by Haydn_17
Back in the good old days of the British Empire im sure Iran would of been completely conquerd in a matter of days.

Why didn't they then????????


I know they could have though or at least had the man power to do so.....

there is bad and good within every country.....we tend to only hear the bad about each though..........

There are things britain does that would make us puke and some with middle eastern countires and same with US..........



People in power are just douche bags.....