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Britain Asks Allies for Help on Employees Held in Iran

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posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by Mdv2
ATS wouldn't cry for expulsion of Britain for detaining the Iranian embassy staff.


Really?

A significant amount believe the Iranian regime is innocent and MI6/CIA cabal is behind the riots
Others sided and justified Iran kidnapping British sailors - so the past evidence begs to differ.

However, this all boils down to Iran wanting attention after her "special relationship" with Syria altered after their President invited Obama to Damascus.

Expect a deal struck with Russia and China: North Korea will be left to the Chinese and Georgia will be denied NATO membership if the West can use military action against Iran.




posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
Expect a deal struck with Russia and China: North Korea will be left to the Chinese and Georgia will be denied NATO membership if the West can use military action against Iran.



Somebody is aware of the "Great Game"

Well said.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Mdv2
Americans are not aware of what we've gone through because they haven't fought a war in the homeland for ages.

Last, we are not a superpower. Economically speaking we might be the world's mightiest, but we have no military that makes an union or country a superpower.


I'm sorry but that just doesn't fly in my book.

We know all too well what Europe went through...

Remember thousands of Americans died fighting in "your wars". Hell many thousands are still stationed there...


Thanks for proving my point. You are clueless. America wasn't destroyed to the ground, cities bombed to the stone age, entire families killed, minorities killed in camps. America brought a great sacrifice but you have no idea what we've gone through, the current generations that is. As for ''your wars'', America was attacked, so don't call it an European problem. Besides, without World War II and the Marshall help, America wouldn't be what it currently is. So it wasn't all bad for America.


The EU needs to step up to the plate and stop all the infighting and act as one. In the US we move as one even if there is a large minority who disagree. They can get their revenge in the next election.


We are not one. You are simply not getting it, nor do we desire to be one. It wouldn't even be possible with all the different cultures and various interests. We don't even have a federal body that could effectively govern like the US. The question is whether that would be desirable. Britain for one doesn't seem to think so, but in all of the sudden they seem to have turned pro-European when it comes to a British interest



You made a great point about having no military as a single unit but if you were to combine all your collective military's you would have the most formidable fighting force right up there with the US and Russia. So please let's look at it from another perspective.


I've been a great supporter of an united military, but it also has great disadvantages. Should the EU have an united military, it could possibly start policing the world like the US, it would lead to a decrease in wealth as well as usher the end of the EU, like the US is now beyond its peak of power.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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I agree with most of what you say except this part here.


Originally posted by Mdv2
I've been a great supporter of an united military, but it also has great disadvantages. Should the EU have an united military, it could possibly start policing the world like the US, it would lead to a decrease in wealth as well as usher the end of the EU, like the US is now beyond its peak of power.


The EU wouldn't be what it is today if we didn't get involved in "Your War" Yes I say "Your War" Because if we just fought the country that attacked us we would have beaten Japan and stood on the sidelines while Germany or Russia ruled over Europe. As far as your wealth it's nice to know that whenever you get your rears in hot water we will join the fun.


One other thing please stop talking down to me as if I'm a school boy. I've been around the block a few times.


[edit on 3-7-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
The EU wouldn't be what it is today if we didn't get involved in "Your War" Yes I say "Your War" Because if we just fought the country that attacked us we would have beaten Japan and stood on the sidelines while Germany or Russia ruled over the Europe. As far as your wealth it's nice to know that whenever you get your rears in hot water we will join the fun.


Eh? Germany and Italy declared war on the US. So you are basically insinuating that the US should have allowed Nazi-Germany to attack US assets without a proper military response?



One other thing please stop talking down to me as if I'm a school boy. I've been around the block a few times.


No offense intended. My apologies if you feel so.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by Mdv2]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Ok, there is the entry point for the next warfront everyone has theorized. My guess is that the EU sees that and will not jeopoardize their own national securities to back it up. It's a much different scanario that the 1979 revolution, and one that increasingly appears to have been British-manipulated. Ten bucks says we will be there in four weeks, if the 10th mountian or delta isn't already there. They are usually in 6-8 weeks ahead of reinforcements.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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I saw this on the news today too. They are going to put them through a trail and what, hang them, if they are guilty?

This is a travesty. Britain needs to kick their asses and get their people out of there.

And another thing. Those two US girls in North Korea being held for the next 12 years. That is a travesty too. We need to get them the hell out of there. Although I am sure a lot is going on to work on that that we don't hear about. They think they can do whatever they want to. It's rediculous.

These people in these messed up countries think that the US and its allies are weak and scared to do anything. I say BS on that. If I were over there being held by crazy nuts I would greatly appreciate it if my country would help me out a little and get me the hell out.


NOW, today, in Afghanistan there's that US soldier being held captive. This is out of control. I think they are going in to get him though.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


Well lets take a look at a couple of possible scenarios shall we?

Great Britain stands alone against Nazi Germany in the west. Germany would not attempt a landing because they know the Britt's would tear them to pieces! Germany and Italy don't have to worry about western Europe or North Africa. Instead they are able to focus their combined might on the eastern front.

One of two things happens...

1. Russia and Germany negotiate a peace. The Axis powers control all the European territory they captured. Result? No EU!

2. Russia Destroys Germany anyway and controls all the territory Germany captured. Result? No EU!


Do we need to look at the very real history of how Russia administrated eastern Europe after the war? Again I'm not trying to Bash the EU, on the contrary I would love to see them step up to the plate and take on their fair share of responsibility in global affairs instead of playing their usual...

"We don't want American forces to leave NATO"

Then Bash us every chance they get meanwhile the oil flows to keep their economies going.



Is America perfect?

Hell no. I'll tell you that right from the horses mouth. Trust me I live here I see it everyday. If it was up to me I'd pull our forces out of Europe yesterday.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by uplander
 

From their viewpoint, the US has a long and recent history of fabricating pretexts for invasion and by all accounts has actively baited Iran despite having sold weapons to them during the 1980s after American hostages were liberated from Tehran. Enemy countries holding Americans hostage makes sense from that viewpoint, they are bargaining chips. This is a concentration of worst case scenarios in one big geographic area that the US hasn't seen since WW2, and that was a totally different playing field.

I'm guessing we covertly are already there in Iran, not as likely NK, but an active invasion is suicidal. None of these countries are kidding around and all have the weapons or strategic alliances to wipe us out. And they will do it, mass murder is in their national characters as shown by all three of their histories. You are correct about military efforts to locate the missing soldier, the policy is "leave no man behind."

Christ, I feel bad for everyone over there, one of ours was notified to us as dead during Gulf War II; he had already called us (breaking rules) and told us where he was so we knew it was wrong and where he actually was.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


He meant Members on ATS, and yes there would be members posting for the expulsion of British Diplomats or the expulsion of Britain fromthe UN.

Would not happen anyways, We just use our veto and say up yours



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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"Then Bash us every chance they get meanwhile the oil flows to keep their economies going."


Hmmmm.... I recall saying something along these lines on another thread and you getting on my back, Slayer.
That being said, I agree with most of what you've said here (I'll be waiting for a hostile response).



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by really
 


That all depends of the context of the conversation.
No flaming here on this TOPIC



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by logicalview
reply to post by Foppezao
 


Sadly, only a minority of people took to the streets to protest. It's just not the British way! We're too bloody conservative.


Are you joking?

Don't talk about the "British way" when you obviously don't know what it is! Britain has a long history of violent and peaceful protest. If anything it IS the British way!

Sheesh! That's a really annoying post!

It might not be your way but that doesn't mean it's not anyone else's!



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Perhaps they should turn to the US or Israel then. What do you expect the EU to do? Send in their armies? Don't you think they have condemned this issue? I don't see what else they could possibly do. Can you tell me what the US and Israel have done for the UK in relation to this matter?


Turn to the US and Israel? Sure. Right after the emergency is over, they can get back to that yank and jew bashing. Business as usual.

A "strongly worded condemnation"? There ya go. That'll teach 'em. That and $1.69 will get you a really big cup of coffee at McDonalds.

What good is an alliance like the EU when your allies desert you?



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Britguy
There are plenty of other people held for years without charge and abused, where is the outrage and tough talk about freeing them?



On the US nightly news. We talk of freeing them, but they've got nowhere to go.

Pity how none of you blokes want any of them.

Why is that?



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Who is they? I certainly hope you are not referring to me!

I may have views, but I certainly donot go around this board bashing americans or jewish people. So who are you referring to when you say they?



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by triplesod
 


Agrees remembers the poll tax riots years ago, if you want to see a demonstraton, look it up on the internet, there are clips of it somewhere. When push comes to shove, the brits are notorious for demonstrations or protests.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Who is they? I certainly hope you are not referring to me!

I may have views, but I certainly donot go around this board bashing americans or jewish people. So who are you referring to when you say they?



Nope, not you. I've not seen anything in any of your posts that I find disagreeable.

You, and perhaps 3 or 4 other British folks I've seen on ATS are on my "good" side, not that my opinion matters that much. It just is what it is.

I was referring in particular to a few Brits that I had a rousing debate with through most of last night, on other threads, and that I've crossed swords with occaisionally over time on ATS. "They" appear to be pretty rabidly anti-yank, and more importantly, anti-"free world", whatever that may entail.

But not you. I don't know how you stand on America and at this point that really doesn't matter. The US isn't the one currently having embassy staff held by "legitimized" thugs. I DO know how you stand on this issue, and I agree with you. THAT matters to me.

I apologize for not making myself clearer. Some of the battle fatigue from last night's "discussions" must linger, and I may have painted with too broad a brush. I meant no slight to you, and beg your forgiveness.







[edit on 2009/7/3 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I suppose those who you are referring about, could say the exact same thing for some americans who use ATS daily. Will not change anything supposes, we use these boards to agree or disagree. There is bashing from members from where ever they live, weither it be about muslims, jewish, americans british, europeans. This place would become rather boring, if it stopped.

While I know the bashing can make you angry sometimes. I lost count many times I have become annoyed, with commens made by other members. We as humans are as bad as each other really.

However thank you for the apology. It is much appreciated.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Laurauk

I suppose those who you are referring about, could say the exact same thing for some americans who use ATS daily. Will not change anything supposes, we use these boards to agree or disagree.


Absolutely. That's what makes the world go 'round!



There is bashing from members from where ever they live, weither it be about muslims, jewish, americans british, europeans. This place would become rather boring, if it stopped.


I try to do my part!
I just hate it when someone feels I've targetted them, and they didn't have it coming in my opinion. That means I didn't express myself very well.



While I know the bashing can make you angry sometimes. I lost count many times I have become annoyed, with commens made by other members. We as humans are as bad as each other really.


I try not to get angry, but I'm not always successful. Anger will make one say or do stupid things, that generally lead to a loss.



However thank you for the apology. It is much appreciated.



No problem. If I wasn't clear enough, you had an apology due.



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