Report on war crimes in Israeli/Palestinian conflict 2009. Recipe for further civilian suffering, page 1
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Topic started on 2-7-2009 @ 06:49 PM by zazzafrazz
Impunity for war crimes in Gaza and southern Israel a recipe for further civilian suffering Impunity for war crimes in Gaza and southern Israel a recipe for further civilian suffering

Amnesty International concluded in a new report published on July 2:
"Operation 'Cast Lead': 22 days of death and destruction" is the first comprehensive report to be published on the conflict, which took place earlier this year.

After repeated incursions on its citizens, Israel launched on December 27 a devesting attack on the Palestinians that resulted on the deaths of 23 days later 1400 people dead, including 300 children


"Israel's failure to properly investigate its forces' conduct in Gaza, including war crimes, and its continuing refusal to cooperate with the UN international independent fact-finding mission headed by Richard Goldstone, is evidence of its intention to avoid public scrutiny and accountability," said Donatella Rovera, who headed a field research mission to Gaza and southern Israel during and after the conflict.


3 Israeli civilians and 9 Israeli soldiers killed

Amnesty stayed on to investage the atrocities including the use white phospherous.
They have found evidence of the use of this awful chemical by the Israelis.
It causes deep chemical burns, and sadly as medical practitioners in Palestine didn't know how to treat it, many more people died unnecessarily.

The reasons for these attacks and the justifications given by both sides are not the purpose of this post, rather a analysis of the findings by Amnesty International on the atrocities carried out buy both sides is warranted.

Israel was censured for using excessive force on civilians, and Hamas were labelled as perpetrating War crimes on the civilian attacks on Israel.

The Amnesty International report documents Israel's use of battlefield weapons against a civilian population trapped in Gaza, with no means of escape and is based on evidence gathered by Amnesty International delegates, including a military expert, during field research in January and February. The report shows that Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups fired hundreds of rockets into southern Israel, killing three Israeli civilians, injuring scores and driving thousands from their homes. "Such unlawful attacks constitute war crimes and are unacceptable," added Donatella Rovera.


The international community has failed resoundedly in caring about this 23 day bloody and inhumane conflict.
Amnesty recommends:
The Palestinian Blockade be lifted, The war crimes investigated by the United nations and those responsible to be brought to justice.
"The international community, led by the UN Security Council, must use all its leverage to ensure that Israel cooperates fully with the Goldstone inquiry, which now offers the best means to establish the truth."


They also note that both sides have no interest in investigating what happened nor any commitment to ending the cycle of conflict there.

AMNESTY REPORT SOURCE: www.amnesty.org...



[edit on 2-7-2009 by zazzafrazz]


reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 10:53 PM by breakingdradles
Originally posted by dooper


Who sent hundreds of thousands of leaflets warning civilians to unass the area prior to bombing?


Who told people to hide out in a UN school, then bombs the school saying Hamas was there?

Here is a Time Magazine article about how Hamas was not there.

www.time.com...

Even if Hamas was, do you still bomb a UN school after you called locals w/ children and told them to go there until the fighting stops??

Would Americans bomb a UN school FULL of civilians if Taliban were there?

No. And israel has no excuse.

WAR CRIME



[edit on 2-7-2009 by breakingdradles]


reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 11:07 PM by dooper
reply to post by breakingdradles


There were two reports on a school bombing. One was bogus, and the other was discussed on length here at ATS.

These were not bombs that hit the one being discussed, and appeared to be mortar rounds - which due to buildings height and distance, couldn't have been Israeli mortars.

I just love these unsubstantiated claims of attacks.

Like when Baghdad was sending hundreds of tons of High Explosives up into the air, and then claimed the US was hitting civilian areas. Hell, you shoot HE up, and it's going to come down somewhere.

Bottom line: You shoot at Israel - they shoot back.


reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 11:11 PM by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by dooper



You know how little credibility you give yourself on this board when you answer from a position of indoctrination? Of course you sound convincing, you're convinced.

Israel has turned into their biggest enemies. Interesting how life works... or does Israel create it's enemies?

AAC


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 02:29 PM by dooper
reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I'm INDOCTRINATED?

By whom?

And when, exactly did this indoctrination occur?

So you think you have the straight skinny? Then let us all defer to your superior intelligence, ability to discern, propensity for rational thinking, historical perspective, and your uncanny ability to intuit those truths that are never considered.

What a guy!

Are you SURE?

I was the oldest of three sons. My youngest brother was a royal pain in my butt. He would throw things at me tens of times after I told him repeatedly to stop, and I'd finally have enough, go beat his ass, and then he'd go screaming to my mom, who'd in turn tell me that I had no business hitting her "baby," and would ignore what precipitated my response. And then I'd be punished.

I empathize with Israel. They've been under constant attack since their creation. The attackers of Israel get a free pass. The retaliation of Israel does not.

Break out old newspapers, read some actual history. Try to get the facts without going in with a predetermined bias. If you were Israel, you'd react the same, identical way.

But you're not. You're a pretender. A biased, selectively ignorant person who just ignores that which would interfere with your predetermined conclusion. Facts mean nothing to folks like you. Secular, unbiased history mean nothing.

That's one hell of a perspective.

You gotta be proud of yourself.


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 03:02 PM by AnAbsoluteCreation
Originally posted by dooper


I'm INDOCTRINATED?

By whom?


The perception machine that we like to call (His)story. No need to debate the validity of this assertion. It is inarguable that Israel controls their own perception vigorously. Their intelligence agency MASSAD's motto is "War by Deception." I could site many examples of this subversion, but would it even land, I don't know?

And when, exactly did this indoctrination occur?


Over time. During your development.

So you think you have the straight skinny?


No. I have just dug enough to see the cause & effect of (His)story.

Then let us all defer to your superior intelligence, ability to discern, propensity for rational thinking, historical perspective, and your uncanny ability to intuit those truths that are never considered.


Don't defer to me. I will always advise that no one should listen to someone else's truth. Everything should be verified and validated by each person's existence. It's the only way.

I was the oldest of three sons. My youngest brother was a royal pain in my butt. He would throw things at me tens of times after I told him repeatedly to stop, and I'd finally have enough, go beat his ass, and then he'd go screaming to my mom, who'd in turn tell me that I had no business hitting her "baby," and would ignore what precipitated my response. And then I'd be punished.


That's normal part of growing up. We just hope that adults will one day grow up. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, remember. Your little brother was not motivated to throw things at you, the way that you interpreted his actions. You reacted personally, not rationally.

I empathize with Israel. They've been under constant attack since their creation.

Their creation was deceptive and terrorizing to the british who mandated the area. Did you know that the british promised that land to the palestinians if they helped fight the ottoman empire in wwi? You've heard of Lawrence of Arabia? But when they helped defeat the Turks, the western world reneged and their worst enemies were granted the land? That is the proverbial sucker punch. Also, if one person has a problem with Israel, it may be that one person. But if a billion people have the same problem... it is Israel. Read some of the quotes from Israeli leaders... Ariel Sharon was quoted to say, "1,000 arabs are not worth the finger nail clipping of 1 jew." Says a lot.

The attackers of Israel get a free pass.


It is a prison. They are trying to break out of their prison. You would do the same.

The retaliation of Israel does not.


Because it is extremely over-excessive. They tell civilians to head to school, then bomb the school. This is fact.

Break out old newspapers, read some actual history. Try to get the facts without going in with a predetermined bias. If you were Israel, you'd react the same, identical way.


Are you serious? I'll take the historical pepsi challenge with you anytime.

But you're not. You're a pretender. A biased, selectively ignorant person who just ignores that which would interfere with your predetermined conclusion. Facts mean nothing to folks like you. Secular, unbiased history mean nothing.


Wrong again. I think palestinians do wrong. But they are at the mercy of their captures. Think about the bigger picture. The fair one. The human one. Get it?

That's one hell of a perspective.


Thanks.

You gotta be proud of yourself.


Thanks again. I am when I am denying ignorance.

AAC

[edit on 3-7-2009 by AnAbsoluteCreation]


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 05:08 PM by rationaluser
Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I'm INDOCTRINATED?

By whom?

And when, exactly did this indoctrination occur?

So you think you have the straight skinny? Then let us all defer to your superior intelligence, ability to discern, propensity for rational thinking, historical perspective, and your uncanny ability to intuit those truths that are never considered.

What a guy!

Are you SURE?

I was the oldest of three sons. My youngest brother was a royal pain in my butt. He would throw things at me tens of times after I told him repeatedly to stop, and I'd finally have enough, go beat his ass, and then he'd go screaming to my mom, who'd in turn tell me that I had no business hitting her "baby," and would ignore what precipitated my response. And then I'd be punished.

I empathize with Israel. They've been under constant attack since their creation. The attackers of Israel get a free pass. The retaliation of Israel does not.

Break out old newspapers, read some actual history. Try to get the facts without going in with a predetermined bias. If you were Israel, you'd react the same, identical way.

But you're not. You're a pretender. A biased, selectively ignorant person who just ignores that which would interfere with your predetermined conclusion. Facts mean nothing to folks like you. Secular, unbiased history mean nothing.

That's one hell of a perspective.

You gotta be proud of yourself.


Oh wow Dooper i cant believe all these fallicies that come out of your mouth and you expect us NOT to take them with a pinch of salt i mean in the first thousand words there is sarcasm ,appeal to ignorance, appeal to proporsional innacuracy( since when has relating a fight with a spouse EVER been compared to a occupation did you take over and occupy your brothers room for like a year and trash his room every month???) a very poor analogy and just because someone has a different viewpoint you go off on one?!?! even I from 4chan (inb4 rules) respect peoples opinions.

But half the stuff you come up with is BS take for example when you tried to convince me that a us aircraft was either inside or outside iranian airspace (i dont remember wich) and you said the iranian air defence was bad or wrong NEWSFLASH 100% of the people are wrong 1% of the time GET OVER IT and btw i get the feeling you're an israeli apologist/borderline zionist you're attitude scares me and god knows how someone like you (if you really were) got in the special and i mean SPECIAL forces is beyond me ... yay i maed an adhomenhim attack :3


reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 11:50 PM by dooper
reply to post by rationaluser


If you want to act like an idiot, you don't have to try so hard.

Oddly, in most parts of the world, stupidity is not considered a virtue.

War is assymetrical. All elements of war are assymetrical. Do you know what that word means?

The way this works, is, if my opponent shoots five shots at me, I am not bound by law, tradition, cultural custom, moral obligation, intellectualism, nor rules to respond equally in kind.

So if Gazans shoot rockets across the Israeli border for weeks, in spite of being warned to stop, then do not hold the one-sided casualty figures against Israel.

You see, stupid people as a rule, require more convincing than non-stupid people. The Gazans, given their uncanny ability to start things they can't finish, are also blessed with a level of stupidity unrivaled in all the world.

This stupidity, according to the laws of nature, also has a much higher mortality rate than non-stupidity.

Yesterday is yesterday. Today is today.

Israel has been a nation since 1948, on land partitioned and allotted them by the former governors. They've been attacked since 1948.

Here's where it really gets tricky: Each time they have been attacked, they kicked the asses of their attackers, and each time they ended up with more land than when they started.

See how this works?

The same thing happened in every nation on earth. Their borders were determined by force.

Yesterday is yesterday. 1300AD is yesterday, 1066 is yesterday, and 1948 is yesterday.

You don't like it, choke on it.


reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 12:49 PM by breakingdradles
Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by rationaluser



So if Gazans shoot rockets across the Israeli border for weeks, in spite of being warned to stop, then do not hold the one-sided casualty figures against Israel.




UNLIKE israel, the people of Gaza are not ALL trained by the military in killing.

Every person in Gaza did not shoot a rocket, very few did and especially not women and children.

HOWEVER israel did treat the PEOPLE of Gaza like they were ALL attackers, women and children included.

THIS IS THE FLAW, THIS IS THE WAR CRIME, ONE YOU TRY TO HIDE BY CLASSIFYING A WHOLE PEOPLE AS AN ARMY INSTEAD OF A FEW EXTREMISTS.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by breakingdradles]



reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 05:41 PM by December_Rain
reply to post by FlyersFan


hahaha...that was really funny.

Btw I guess now EU who "donates" Israel are also biased and have a agenda. This is directly from EU Commission press release.


"The current discussion on Israel's settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory focuses heavily on the legal and political issues. And the European Union certainly takes the view that all Israeli settlement in the occupied territory is illegal and that it seriously undermines progress towards a two-state solution," said Mr. Roy Dickinson, the European Commission's Chargé d'affaires in Jerusalem. "Yet the economic impact of settlements on the Palestinian economy and the PA's revenues also deserves attention. The expropriation of fertile land; the settler-only roads which carve up the occupied Palestinian territory, and the checkpoints and roadblocks which exist solely to protect settlements: these all contribute to strangling the Palestinian economy, thus they reduce the PA's revenues and make the PA dependent on handouts from donors. And it is European taxpayers who pay most of the price of that dependence."


Source: European Commission: Israeli settlements constrain Palestinian economy and increase PA's dependence on donor funds


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 11:46 AM by Dnevnoi
reply to post by Genus


Like Israel will ever respond to a call for a war crimes tribunal. Don't you recall the time when Human Rights Watch (Now sponsored by Saudi oil money for twice the antisemitism) called for Ariel Sharon to be put on trial while hundreds of Israelis were being slaughtered by Yasser Arafat's terrorist organization? No? Well there you go. Its nature versus nurture, Israel would be peaceful if everyone didn't try to obliterate it once it was created.


reply posted on 31-7-2009 @ 11:48 AM by Dnevnoi
reply to post by December_Rain


It is true, Human Rights Watch is sponsored by Saudi sheiks now. Their executives are all against the existence of Israel, the bias in blended into them. Check out NGO-Monitor, they deny ignorance in very much the same way ATS contributors do. Its nice that someone is watching the watchers.
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