Vaccine Expert Reveals What You Should Know Before You Roll Up Your Sleeve (scary stuff), page 2

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reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 07:23 PM by king9072

Great thread, and another nail into the vaccination coffin. I made a thread recently discussing the possibility of paying your way out of the vaccine, everyone laughed and told me it was retarded. And that "who said mandatory vaccinations will happen??? huh??" It's been clearly visible that mandatory vaccination was the goal of this before they released the swine flu to begin with.

It's not a matter of if we will have mandatory vaccination, it's a matter of WHEN.

Additionally, that's also why I stood fast for weeks ridiculing everyone who let the swine flu hysteria grip them. Going so far as to call out admins and mods who were playing into peoples fear to get more traffic to the website. In all business, there's a place where a line must be drawn, but I think it's especially important in this business where the line should be drawn.

If all you worry about is getting traffic to the website, regardless of content quality - in the long run, this is a failing tactic. It also won't help when half your member base is dead or sick cause they've been poisoned thanks, in part, to the fear brought on by this forum.

I smelt the end game of the swine flu as soon as it entered the picture, and I worked hard to get other people to realize what was going on. Some listened, some still don't. Just as the Lusitania, just as the Gulf of Tonkin, just like 911, the swine flu was a false flag to get people riled up, so that new legislation could be passed and the doors to mandatory vaccination opened.

As of late, the ignorance on this forum is really disturbing me, cause it's one thing when the sheep follow the herder, but when us people, who still use our minds all follow the herd as well - we know we are in grave trouble.

reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 02:47 PM by Astronaut Down

Interesting article. Some important questions are not asked.

Who is Dr Tenpenny?

Her website says "She received her medical training at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine in Kirksville, Missouri." This really leads another question.

What is Osteopathic Medicine?

Osteopathic Medical doctors are similar to Medical Doctors but there are many things about this type of medicine that differ from standard medicine. It was founded back in 1874 (before the Koch's important research on the Germ Theory of Disease was published) by Andrew Taylor Still, MD (1828-1917). Still believed that diseases were caused by a kind of mechanical interference with nerves and/or blood supply and were curable by manipulation of what he called "deranged, displaced bones, nerves, muscles—removing all obstructions—thereby setting the machinery of life moving." In his autobiography he claims to have been able to "shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck."

How shaking a child would cure anything is unclear. I also couldn't find any studies that seriously tested shaking children as a method for curing anything. I doubt that any DO working today would use such a treatment, however the ideas underpinning this are what created osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is, as its name implies, based on manipulating the body in order to treat conditions. Although this would be similar to how a physical therapist treats pain OMT is not actually meant to treat much than simple pain. Still believed that OMT could treat almost any condition. The exact mechanisms by which manipulation could treat something like the flu are unknown. Thankfully the number of DO's who use OMT as a treatment for things other than back pain is falling.

Modern DO's are known for their use of Chelation Therapy and Cranial Therapy. Cranial Therapy is a form of OMT. It is essentially that manipulation of the skull bones can treat almost any condition, from pain to illness. The claim is that a rhythm exists in the flow of fluid around the brain and spinal cord and that detecting aberrations in this rhythm can be used to diagnose diseases and that manipulating the skull can correct these diseases. Chelation Therapy is a valid medical treatment for heavy metal poisoning. However it does not have an well evidenced use in treating conditions other than heavy metal poisoning. Studies of its use from Autism to heart disease do not show any benefit from chelation therapy.

Dr Tenpenny claims as part of her credentials online to have taken a Chelation Training Seminar from the American College of Advancement of Medicine. This is a group that promotes Chelation Therapy as a treatment for things like Autism, heart disease and other conditions despite the lack of well performed research in its favour. In addition to this she claims to have attended many Cranial Therapy courses and seems to consider them to be "advanced studies".

So far Dr Tenpenny does not seem like a very credible source. Her affiliations with such poorly evidence uses of Chelation Therapy and nonsensical therapies like Cranial Therapy are huge red flags.

reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 03:04 PM by Astronaut Down

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
Am I crazy...but I think I remember learning back in Biology 101 a virus can not be cured by medicine or prevented by vaccine because of its chaotic mutating nature? So isn't all of this tami-flu and vaccine propaganda really snake oil anyway?

There no know cures for viral infections, true. This means that once you get infected (say with HIV or Influenza) doctors only know how to treat the symptoms. It is up to your body to fight the virus with its antibodies. A vaccine stimulates the production of those very antibodies, as does an actual infection. The reason why you get a vaccine is so that you have the antibodies before you get the infection. While the vaccine does not guarantee complete protection from the disease it does have a high rate of efficacy.

As an interesting side note; rate of vaccine effectiveness declines with age. One cause, among many is an accumulation of late differentiated effector T cells. This decline in efficacy is a problem since the elderly are the ones most likely to develop serious complication from diseases like the flu, which healthy adults can fight off with ease.

reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 03:36 PM by hawk123

Originally posted by argentus
........and again with the themerisol. Why does a vaccine need a preservative, especially if it has formaldehyde in it? and if it DOES need a vaccine, why a mercurial one?

Here's Dr. Tenpenny's website for some additional information.

She looks to have the credentials, and she sounds very credible. For me, it's yet another confirmation to my decision to not get the jab.

Everyone has to research and make their own decision for the sake of their health and that of their families. I think this is very important evidence to assist in that decision.

edit to add: Dr. Tenpenny's Cirriculum Vitae

[edit on 3/7/09 by argentus]

Once again read the original article
Multi-dose vials also contain thimerosal, a preservative made with mercury!

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 10:29 AM by Astronaut Down

There's a lot of discussion about thiomersal and mercury. Everybody knows that heavy metal poisoning is bad but the important questions is whether thiomersal and the kind of mercury it contains can cause heavy metal poisoning.

Thiomersal is C9H9HgNaO2S and is properly known as sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate. For those who don't what those numbers and letters mean it means that a single molecule of sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate contains nine carbon atoms, nine hydrogen atoms, one mercury atom, one sodium atom, two oxygen atoms and one sulfur atom. Its an organomercury compound, which just means that its an organometal that contains mercury. An organomercury is characterized by its C-Hg bond. So the kind of mercury in thiromersal is called ethylmercury (C2H5Hg+). This kind of mercury is not actually absorbed by the body. The dangerous kind of mercury is in fact methylmercury ([CH3Hg]+).

The danger is that methylmercury stays in the body. Since the body has no natural way of getting rid of this kind of mercury it builds up and causes all of the problems that we know of as mercury poisoning.

Because ethylmercury does not stay in the body it doesn't present these risks.

Sorry if it seems like a lot of jargon, its important to understand what thiomersal is. Especially because all of the worries that people have about it are based on thinking that all mercury compounds are the same. Its important to understand the chemistry of this so that you not only know why mercury can be dangerous, but what kind of mercury is dangerous.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Astronaut Down]

reply posted on 5-7-2009 @ 12:22 PM by Modwolf

Good grief. There isn't a chance in hell that I'll take that, and woe betide those who do. I can only hope that those I care about don't take it either.
I do not wish to develop symptoms similar to MS, nor do I want arthritis. I don't know what the hell the Pharm industry is doing by placing such harmful chems into something that is meant to keep people in good heath.
I feel compelled to repeat myself.
Good. Grief.

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 04:08 AM by CultureD

reply to post by ziggy1706

Hey Ziggy- and all- did you know that one of the by-products of metabolizing aspartame (Nutra-Sweet) is formaldehyde- via the formic acid pathway? (formic acid is what deadly ants use as a chemical defense, and that kill adults in Africa and places in Asia).

MSG- great preservative, but injected glutamic acid causes excessive neuronal firing (it's an excitatory amino acid- neccessary, but in protein form, with other aminos-not on its own). We wonder why there's a spike in autism, ADHD, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, MS,ALS, etc.? MSG in injections ruins those pathways- from the womb to the the late years of life.

THEN, add thimerosol, with its life- destroying mercury, DNA and RNA fragments from animals, bacteria, viruses; fungi, and finally- adjuvants that are STONE killers.

It's like shooting yourself with potassium, only slower.

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 04:19 AM by Karlhungis

reply to post by Astronaut Down

You bring up some good points. People should look at the source in things like this. I'll be honest though, you very much come across as a pro-vaccine shill that is here to debunk anti-vaccine topics.

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 10:19 AM by Astronaut Down

reply to post by Karlhungis

I'm not here to debunk anything (unless there's a lot of holocaust deniers here, in that case I'll spend my time debunking that nonsense) this was on the "hot topics" when I logged in so I had a look. I don't take the flu vaccine because I'm a healthy adult and its good for my immune system to fight off a flu now and then. I wouldn't recommend that any healthy adult take a flu shot, for that same reason.

I'm sorry that I sounded shrill, that was not my intent. This Dr Tenpenny really just seems like a quack, and I thought that the information I posted would be valuable to anybody who read the article. Curing and/or diagnosing diseases by manipulating the skull? That seems ridiculous, especially given that I didn't find any proposed mechanism for how that would work.

And the information about the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury is a really key difference. It reminds me of the ridiculous article Robert Kennedy Jr wrote for Rolling Stone where he said things like "infants routinely received three inoculations that contained a total of 62.5 micrograms of ethylmercury -- a level 99 times greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury." This statement implies that ethylmercury and methylmercury are the same, when that could not be further from the case. This article had to be followed with a huge number of corrections and clerifications and it had be corrected from the print version before being posted online. Among the clarifications "The article also misstated the level of ethylmercury received by infants injected with all their shots by the age of six months. It was 187 micrograms - an amount forty percent, not 187 times, greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury."

There is a lot of disinformation out there where people are confusing ethylmercury and methymercury either to promote something or because they simply don't know that there is a difference.

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 11:06 AM by DDay

Originally posted by observe50
What scares me if when our kids go to school they could do this in school without us even knowing until it was already done.

If they make it mandatory how do we work around this.

I worry about this to, I remember getting shots at school and not thinking anything about it. I assume it was a flu shot as I was in primary school at the time so I don't remember what it was clearly but I remember getting them.

I worry about this with my son and I have told him to tell if they do anything like that to him. It would be too late but I will make a stink and will instruct him to refuse.

reply posted on 6-7-2009 @ 03:41 PM by pexx421

Hm. Its pretty silly i would think, to disregard the words of tenpenny, whoever she is, just because she's a DO (dr. of osteopathy). Most states accord DO's the same status as MD's, DO's can serve on medical boards, and undergo all the normal medical and pharmeceutical training that regular MD's go through IN ADDITION TO their osteopathic training.

As to the kooky ideas of the originators of osteopathy, well remember that MD's also originally treated people with lobotomies and massive injections of mercury and other such substances....not as an adjuvent, just mercury by itsself. Allopathy (DM's, Western medicine) Began as a way to consolidate an attack against all other forms of medicine, such as DO's and naturopathic medicine. Allopathy actually means treating a disease with another disease, and that is what they do. They know no natural treatments, all they know how to do is give pharma drugs, indeed, their school texts are written by the pharmeceutical industry. They rarely cure and most often just cover symptoms. In this light, i dont think osteopathy is any more rediculous than western medicine.

reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 09:21 AM by Astronaut Down

reply to post by pexx421

I wasn't dismissing her simply because she is a DO. What I said was "Her affiliations with such poorly evidenced uses of Chelation Therapy and nonsensical therapies like Cranial Therapy are huge red flags." Those huge red flags combined with her confounding of ethylmercury and methylmercury make me not trust her. She is the article's main source and "expert" so her credibility is definitely an important issue. Any serious physician should at least have a handle on basic chemistry and should know the difference between various organomercury compounds.

I know that a real doctor can also be a DO, and still receive all of their regular medical training. A doctor could also have training on the saxophone, it doesn't mean that it will help them diagnose, treat or cure any diseases. Generally speaking, I don't think that simply being a DO has any negative effect on a doctor's ability to provide competent care. From my quick research the major difference that I found was that they preferred physical therapy over surgery wherever possible.

There are, however, a minority DO's that take its founders claims about OMT seriously, and Dr Tenpenny seems to be one of them. This is because of the value she seems to place in Cranial Therapy. Given her affiliation with quack uses of Chelation Therapy, Cranial Therapy and OMT, and her failure to understand (or at least admit) the difference between various organomercury compounds I think she's an untrustworthy source. My problem is not that she's a DO, my problem is that she's a quack.

reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 09:28 AM by argentus

reply to post by hawk123

Once again read the original article
Multi-dose vials also contain thimerosal, a preservative made with mercury!

Not sure what your point is. I know they contain thimerosal. I don't want thimerosal. Do you, or did I misunderstand your intent?

I read the original article, and subsequent links. Please don't tell me to do so again, unless, of course, you want to direct me to a specific point. Otherwise, saying that just seems churlish.

reply posted on 28-7-2009 @ 01:05 PM by charlie0

I was reading "Seewhatudo" comments and something dawned on me. At age 60 I was so sick that I opted to retire because I didn't have any strength, couldn't walk, my memory was so bad that I couldn't even remember the names of my kids and often made mistakes calling them. To sum it up health wise I was very bad.
I am a foreign born that came to USA at age 24. My folks that passed away around age 70 had hardly any Grey hair. None of my family ever had blood pressure or heart problems, Obesity etc They were in good health. And it is not just for my folks but my relatives too were in good health. One of my relative died at age 120 around 1949 who had new set of natural teeth when he passed age 100 but it was tiny like a mouse. Up to age 24 I went to Doctor only 2 times. Never went to Dentist until I came to USA. Here I took all the shots at various times. My first 5 years here , I used to walk in one shirt in sub zero weather. If I shook had with an American they would either scream or complain that I hurt their hand. What went wrong with my health living here in this country, I have no clue. And so are my Doctors. I do know that when I eat organic food, from the taste of it I can tell that it is organic because I lived that life. Our Government adopted US agriculture system in 1960. I am a witness since then that diseases especially diabetes and heart problems increased in the country of my birth. I am wondering if the food or the vaccine shots effected my long term life. About a month ago I was Hospitalized for 220/123 blood pressure that was not coming down. My chest xray & EKG was negative. Blood tests for liver etc was negative. 6 months ago my stress test and echo gram was OK. I am writing this as a piece of puzzle for those of you who has the knowledge of health mechanics can understand why people like "seewhatudo" are concerned about flu shots.

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