Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

Good point MysterE....

Were i come from (Holland) everybody has healthcare but they changed the system a couple of years back. You used to be able to choose wether or not you wanted to be inssured through the goverment or if you would take care of your own insurance.

Now everybody has healthcare from the goverment and everybody pays a contribution of which the hight ,i believe, is determent by your income.

Say on average it's 100,- euro a month. From age 18 you have to take care of these payments yourself wether you are still living with your parents or not.

But the thing is.....most people don't pay these bills yet they stay insured. The amount that you have to pay is just added up to next months bill and so on.

I haven't paid my bill in two years and the total cost is now +2600,- euro. But you will hear nothing from these guys. Just a letter every once in a while how high the amount due is but no bill-collector or court order, nothing!!

Now i'm guessing they are waiting untill the bill runs so high that they will own your ass. But i'm not sweating it because i never agreed to this system and i have never used any of the benefits this system brings.

Instead i moved to an other country (germany) but because i work in Holland i still need dutch insurance and so they just keep sending bills....
(i'm not paying!! Not now, not ever!! I only spend my hard earned money when i get something in return!!!)

Wonder how long this crappy system will hold up!!!

Peace

OKay wait! IS this mandatory for everyone? how they gunna collect or fine the homeless? Those recently laid off or in tent citys and cant find work, caue corporate buisness gave jobs to all the illegal immigrants? IM really stumped on this one..

reply to post by ziggy1706


I doubt there is any good way to collect from the homeless or illegals. But I assure you they will get care, and we will pay for it.

-E-

Typical, just typical. Hillary-Care has returned.

The first thing everyone needs to understand is that this is not just about health care. It's about power. Despite decades of social pressure to conform to the norm, some people aren't doing it. They don't live in towns, work in a 9-5 job, stick as much as possible in their 401k plan, hold a huge mortgage on their little plot of land and oversized home, have 6 credit card bills racking up interest charges for the banking industry each month, and support the economy the way the politicians want them to. Some of us do live the old way: within our means, doing the best we can with what we have. And that's simply not acceptable.

The plan is for there to be two classes of people: the worker class and the ruling class. As with any class-based society, no one should be able to move between classes; either you are born into the ruling class or you are a worker destined to serve those who were. Workers will not be able to own any land, will not be able to achieve any dreams or goals not sanctioned by their rulers, and will be seen as simply tools. In order for this to happen, the following must first occur:

• The public must be indoctrinated to believe things work the way the ruling class wishes them to be seen as working. This means that higher technology is to be both worshiped as the ultimate achievement, and at the same time not taught in its entirety, lest someone in the wrong class discover technology is not necessarily in the hands of the rulers.
  
  
• Private property is to be removed from the working class. This is easy enough should everyone have a mortgage. A simple depression in the economic markets will achieve that. But for those who do not have a mortgage, there must be another way to seize their land. Fines for violating laws such as this healthcare reform will do nicely. Once the fines have built up to a sufficient level to justify it, court action to foreclose on a person's property in order to pay the fines will result.
  
  We already have property being seized in drug raids illegally (i.e., before a conviction)... but it seems some of us are managing to hang on to our property legally. Time to make those infidels illegal another way.
  
  
• People in the working class must be conditioned to accept the rule of those in the ruling class without question. We already see this in the workings as well. How dare someone abandon an unwed mother and not support their children financially! IOt's irrelevant if they actually are doing so privately, since the court can rule that if there is no receipt filed with the court, the payment never happened. It's irrelevant if the person accused is 2 years older than their supposed child. It's irrelevant what the mother is doing. All that matters in family court is that someone pays through the nose.
  
  Everyone must have auto insurance if they are going to drive a car. After all, they might damage someone else! Of course, nowhere in our history before this action has anyone ever been required to provide a service based on a future possibility. Our entire system was founded upon personal responsibility and personal action; now it is becoming one of potential future actions and shared responsibility.
  
  
• Guns must be removed from society. But that's another discussion.

A well-laid plan rarely fails. Some of us have been screaming the message of freedom and personal responsibility for decades now, and watching it fall on deaf ears. So be it. Keep believing that Obama or the Hildebeast or Pelosi have your best interests at heart and want to give you better health care. You'll get exactly what they intended soon enough: slavery to a system that does little to actually prolong your life, especially after your productive years.

Enjoy.

TheRedneck

Edit to add reply to post by ziggy1706

Those recently laid off or in tent citys and cant find work, caue corporate buisness gave jobs to all the illegal immigrants? IM really stumped on this one..

That's an easy one: those people who are homeless or immigrant are not a threat. Free healthcare will be provided to them by the government (paid for by those who own land and are therefore still a threat, of course).

TheRedneck


[edit on 7/3/2009 by TheRedneck]

This is typically the essence of consumerism.
One must spend all he earns.
Otherwise, it's called - Depression

It is more and more obvious that this is the kind of war being waged against individuals in this postmodern, post historic New World Order.

The slogan "mandatory voluntary" explains it very well.

In socialism we had: "right and duty"

Lets follow the logic here....

Pass cap and trade but don't you dare put tarrifs on countries that are going to import the products we can no longer make because of cap and trade.

Result:
More people out of work...

"Now, we don't care if you are out of work because we passed cap and trade Mr. American. If you don't buy our government health care we will fine you and throw you into a FEMA camp."

Result:
Clock tower sniper....

Ok, now this makes little sense to me.

I am a Obama supporter, social liberal...but this strikes me as something I cant support...if someone refuses it, it should be their right...this is like forcing someone to use mass transit else they will be fined...makes no sense.

I mean, one argument is, who would refuse it...but thats not the point...there are amish and other strange religions that refuse medical treatment in leu of prayer and happy thoughts to make a person better...they shouldnt be punished for that, its their freedom (besides, their punishment comes in the failure rate anyhow..no need to kick em while there down)

This is very odd...making no sense whatsoever...and I think no matter what argument for it I will still be against this measure...its a freedom issue, not a logic issue here...I do believe in the logical thing to do, but not at the expense of personal freedom...and this is purely a personal direct freedom attack (even if for the best of intentions).

This will be one of those very rare moments I stand with the conservative moanfest folks and philosophically oppose this.

I wonder if we can somehow create our own organized religion stating that we would all go to hell if we follow this plan...

Religious persecution at its best!!!

reply to post by MysterE


You will only get care without paying for it if one of two conditions are met.

1. You are black.

2. You are Mexican.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Here's another excerpt from the article. This is just another way to extort money out of Americans. Why don't they fine the insurance carriers for not covering sick people?

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years.

www.breitbart.com...

[edit on 2-7-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Now that makes me more angry than I already was! Swimming in a pool of sharks wont be fun!

reply to post by MysterE


This is so horrible. I recently had a baby March 19th and it cost me 16,000! Of course it will never get paid because I am a waitress and barely make enough money to pay my bills. I think this is another government effort to put everyone in debt and make it impossible to move up America.

Any why is it if you are on welfare, it covers the whole birth but with regular EXPENSIVE insurance, they only cover 80%? I dont understand.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Here's another excerpt from the article. This is just another way to extort money out of Americans. Why don't they fine the insurance carriers for not covering sick people?

Because the insurance industries line the pockets of Congress with millions of dollars in lobbying money to make sure they ALWAYS get the best arrangement. They have millions of dollars to spend on lobbying, but they can't offer health insurance to those who need it, because they'll collapse. Right. They protect their profits at all costs.

People that can't afford health care can somehow afford government fines?

Even the most partisan liberal democrat has to be shaking their heads over this.

Now who is it that is really taking away your rights:

Hint: turns out not to be Bush and the Republicans after all ...

Originally posted by MysterE
They are pushing healthcare reform HARD, and it will happen under some form. In it's current form YOU will be REQUIRED to have health coverage or YOU WILL BE FINED.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now

This is worse then socialized health care. What freedom will they come after next.

-E-

www.breitbart.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


[edit on 2-7-2009 by MysterE]

exactly ...there comin for all the freedoms... and that analogy is crap.......people who don't want to pay car insurance don't have to drive they can take public transportation or carpool or bike or walk and don't get fined for that choice

a more fair analogy for medical coverage using the auto insurance line.... would be that obama would like to imagine a world where you must pay car insurance wether you want to drive or not.............no the manipulative little analogy's don't get by me..........F yourselves

you wanna save money on health insurance ....stick it to BIG PHARMA and cut their prices........what they have gotten away with in that field is like what happens in a hurricane warning area when the Gas station jacks prices thru the roof....only nobody seems to have a voice in washington to rein these people in......and so the only politically acceptable version now in the place where private industry and public offical (washington) is so blurred prescription strength glass don't help....is to bend over the sheep........the sheep should mass protest or else they will get F'D.....you can take that to the bank...........remember even when u slow cook the frogs .....they don't cook forever

[edit on 3-7-2009 by cpdaman]

anyone have this from a legitimate site? This seems to only show up on whatever breitbart is, fox, and the inquirer.

We are all going to need healthcare coverage if people keep blowing their lids over frivilous site information.

here is another horror! New Hampshire passes legislation that forces old people to watch gays marry!

Oh the facism!

www.theonion.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">NH legislature forces old people

What is this world coming too?

bill H.B. 437 read in part. "Any grandparent who refuses to weep joyously when the grooms kiss may be subject to harsh penalties."

i needed that laugh nikie good stuff

perhaps i should not look so harshly on this.....but you do know this fits in with the Codex agenda..........which conveniently pump up big pharma profits......and limit fiscal burden from aging ...large.. baby boom population...(not by reducing costs )....who will go from contributing alot to costing more than they produce....i think america decided they can't handle this burden....only the most productive or connected shall be deemed fit to live .......and while that sounds crude it is really just that they will cut the elderly mortality rate because they will see this as a difficult decision since they aren't wililng to but heads with big industry or why would they want to ?

[edit on 3-7-2009 by cpdaman]

My guess is that the mandatory health insurance goal is a selective enforcement stick and an excuse to arrest anyone who tries to get off the grid.

For the second, if you aren't earning money needed to pay the insurance or the fine, or are set up so you don't need to make money, it gives a legal reason to arrest you. I won't be surprised if the Amish are one of the coming targets of this aspect.

For the first, now that insurance companies have an forced market, through negotiation the companies and the government can work out deals. Don't want to take that flu vaccine? your insurance cost sky rockets. Don't want to let inspectors come in to verify you are in compliance with Codex Alimentarius, your insurance cost sky rockets. Either don't see a doctor regularly, or don't buy the meds they are forced to suggest, or don't allow inspections to verify you are taking the meds, up your insurance goes.

Finally it will, through the mandatory employer copay aspect, force them to pass the costs onto the customer, speeding up the inflation cycle

reply to post by nixie_nox



I heard the terms of this bill given an overview on CNN radio news.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
anyone have this from a legitimate site? This seems to only show up on whatever breitbart is, fox, and the inquirer.

We are all going to need healthcare coverage if people keep blowing their lids over frivilous site information.

here is another horror! New Hampshire passes legislation that forces old people to watch gays marry!

Oh the facism!

www.theonion.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">NH legislature forces old people

What is this world coming too?

bill H.B. 437 read in part. "Any grandparent who refuses to weep joyously when the grooms kiss may be subject to harsh penalties."

It's all over the Internet... Check your local paper or are you just a disinfo agent? Here is one right here and this is a liberal rag that encourages Obama's freak show... Give me a break.... Are you that lazy or do you need a lesson on how to use google?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by lagenese

 

Because Americans do not value life, as you can see.

From my observation, Americans hate the old, kill the unborn, scorn at the mentally ill, disgust at the fat, scrim at the anorexic, and in general are simply hateful people to life.


None the less, Universal healthcare can work in Canada probably because of thew significantly lower population. 300 million people are hard to afford when they're all fat, lazy, and the nation is in mountains of debt.

I am a Socialist in riches, and a scorn capitalist in times like now.

Not all Americans are this way. Most Americans are normal. The problem is the American people who hate, hate , hate are not being held accountable when their actions fall in line with their attitude. Let me also add the hard corp haters in America have it in for women.


The medical system is looking an awful lot like the public school system. If lucky we will be allowed to ransom ourselves out of the system. We pay in ,but do not use the system at all.

If we are not lucky the government will mandate treatments and detain those who refuse treatment. Old people will automatically be put away after a certain age. Mental institutions will suddenly be full to capacity with political activists. Women will suddenly find themselves sterile after child birth particularly if they rubbed a politico the wrong way.

The root cause of the destruction of the present medical system is envy.