Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

Canadians Running to U.S. for Health Care
Canada, we are constantly being told by single-payer advocates, is a model social democracy with a medical delivery system that we should envy. Oddly, the people who make such claims never want to answer a question that Bill Steigerwald reiterates in a recent column:

If Canada’s national health care system is so dang wonderful, why are so many Canadians coming to America to pay for their own medical care?

And it’s not only pregnant women, like the one who recently had to drive to Montana to have her baby, who cross into the U.S. on a daily basis seeking health care. Thus, Steigerwald inquires further:

Why is the hip replacement center of Canada in Ohio–at the Cleveland Clinic, where 10% of its international patients are Canadians … Why is Brain and Spine Center in Buffalo serving about 10 border-crossing Canadians a week?

By way of answering his own questions, Steigerwald provides the following datum:

Number of Canadians on waiting lists for referrals to specialists or for medical services–875,000.

It would appear that Canadians with sufficient financial means are seeking medical treatment in a country where such waiting lists exist only in the the fond dreams of single-payer advocates.

And what about the Canadians who don’t have the money to come here for care? I guess they just pray that their illnesses don’t kill them before the vaunted Canadian system can fit them in.

www.healthcarebs.com...

But hey, i guess just because liberals CLAIM that a "free" Socialized healthcare system is perfect, it must be heh?

I wonder what sort of trees Canadians have that grow money? I mean, how do you pay for "free" Socialized healthcare?

Can a Canadian please send me one or two tree seedlings of these trees that grow money?

By Hilary White

OTTAWA, November 14, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A new study has revealed that the Canadian government will spend $171.9-billion this year on health care, or $5,170 per person. At this rate health care spending is expected to grow faster than Canada’s economy, outpacing inflation and population growth, according to Glenda Yeates, President and CEO of the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI), which released the study yesterday.

Demographers have warned that the aging and slow growth of the Canadian population is a direct threat to the long-term prognosis of its raft of expensive, publicly funded social services, including its health care system.

www.lifesitenews.com...


Ooops, I guess Canadians do not have trees that grow money, my bad....

Here is an example of a Canadian politician coming to the U.S. for medical treatment...

Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report
Updated Fri. Sep. 14 2007 7:57 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.

Stronach's spokesman, Greg MacEachern, told the Toronto Star that the MP for Newmarket-Aurora had a "later-stage" operation in the U.S. after a Toronto doctor referred her.

"Belinda had one of her later-stage operations in California, after referral from her personal physicians in Toronto. Prior to this, Belinda had surgery and treatment in Toronto, and continues to receive follow-up treatment there," said MacEachern.

www.ctv.ca...

But hey, I guess since the Obama administration claim that a "free" Socialized healthcare will work perfect here, it must be so right?

Even President Obama the Messiah claims that it will work perfectly....

Well, except when you read the fact that under President Obama's "free" Socialized healthcare the GOVERNMENT, and not doctors, will decide what sort of treatments patients will have, if they are economically affordable.

What about the elderly? Well, just forget about them, because under President Obama's "free" Socialized healthcare.

Obama Says We Shouldn't Treat Old Folks to Save Money And the Media Goes Deaf
By Warner Todd Huston (Bio | Archive)
June 26, 2009 - 01:19 ET

I am wondering when the euthanasia folks are going to start touting this one? I mean, it sure seemed to me as if the most caring, most civil, most intelligent president evah just said that healthcare could be cheaper if we don't give old folks and the infirm the full measure of care they now get. It appeared that Obama said we should just let them die or suffer because they aren't worth the effort. Imagine if Bush had said something like this? The left wouldn't have hesitated to call him any manner of names. Oddly, though, the Old Media have not had so much as a raised eyebrow over his statements on Wednesday.

Obama said during the ABC Special on Wednesday night that a way to save healthcare costs is to abandon the sort of care that "evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve" the patient's health. He went on to say that he had personal familiarity with such a situation when his grandmother broke her hip after she was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

Obama offered a question on the efficacy of further care for his grandmother saying, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?"

But who is it that will present the "evidence" that will "show" that further care is futile? Are we to believe that Obama expects individual doctors will make that decision in his bold new government controlled healthcare future? If he is trying to make that claim it is a flat out untruth and he knows it.

newsbusters.org...

Phew, President Obama sure is a very compassionate man...even towards the elderly in his own family...

So who wants to cheer for President Obama's new "FREE" Socialized healthcare?....




[edit on 3-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I never said the canadian system was perfect. You did not understand what i wrote. The money system is to blame, we do not need that. We're probably the only planet in this galaxy, and maybe even the universe that uses currency... And we're probably the only planet that has such a low level of consciousness...

reply to post by lagenese



Oh really? So you have visited other planes, and seen what sort of economic system they have?

When is the next trip to one of those planets so i can see it myself?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Well, i see that you don't believe, and that is good. You'll have to experiment on your own i guess.

Peace

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

But hey, I guess since the Obama administration claim that a "free" Socialized healthcare will work perfect here, it must be so right?

Even President Obama the Messiah claims that it will work perfectly....

Well, except when you read the fact that under President Obama's "free" Socialized healthcare the GOVERNMENT, and not doctors, will decide what sort of treatments patients will have, if they are economically affordable.

I'm sorry if I sound offensive, but have you been paying attention at all?

Obama's plan is the farthest thing from Socialism you could imagine! (Believe me, I hate it too.)

It's not free (no healthcare system in any country is, mind you), and it's not run by the government at all. Read about the plan before you comment, because it's much worse than you think it is. Seriously, you will want to throw up.

The government won't decide anything, except how much to fine you when you don't buy insurance. The insurance companies, on the other hand, will still be making all of the decisions. This time, however, you will be forced to buy into it. The doctors have never had a say in America, it has always been the insurance industry and it always will be. They have so much money invested in our elected representatives, that the doctors will always play runner-up to the bureaucrats.

I know you have a major problem with universal healthcare, because you seem to spend a good deal of your time here dissing it, but there is no way an educated individual could possibly think the insurance companies are a more reliable decision.

I honestly want to know your opinion on this. Given the option between government-run healthcare, and insurance company-run healthcare, which would you prefer? (And please don't quote more right-wing sources denouncing Canadian healthcare. Most Canadians who actually live in Canada prefer their system, so outside opinions are relatively moot in that respect).

Originally posted by lagenese

Well, i see that you don't believe, and that is good. You'll have to experiment on your own i guess.

Peace

Oh c'mon, I really want to visit those planets you went to to see for myself how their economic system works.

Seriously, unless you have "actually" visited other planets, there is NO WAY you would know how their economic system works...

I just read this on yahoo news and WTF??? Forced health insurance? Fined $1000 a year if refuse to sign up? The money they gonna use to help with this health coverage is coming out of medicare and medicaid? Its bad enough the State of California cannot pay their bills. Hell I am on medicare and get help from medicaid cause social security dont pay crap to live on. Damn this is full of (bleep). I have already had my dental benefits taken away among other things and now this. Why not just abolish the entire medicare and medicaid program and tell the public to (bleep) off? Oh yeah and with that money that is saved, give it to the big oil companies and bail them out or give it to the federal reserve to wipe their (ass) with it. I tell you this country has turned to sht. Sorry for ranting but this really pisses me off.

Here we go again.......

This plot is getting a bit old and we should be able to see this coming by now. First "we" create a problem, then "we" provide a sollution and everybody is happy....

Ofcourse they are not going to fine you for not having an affordable medical coverage. This is mearly the "problem" they created because they know people will stand up to this. Soon they will come with a proposal which seems to be pretty reasonable compared to the old plans and everybody will gladly agree.

"We are sorry everybody for these wild plans and we agree that this is not the right way to go about this. So we propose free healthcare for every citizen of the USA!! Look at us people, we are your friends and we are trying to help you. Now all we need to do in order to know this sytem won't be sensitive to fraud.......everybody needs to get some sort of ID-tag so we know you are eligible for free healthcare (you know with all the illegal imigrants and everything)....."

Don't forget to say thank you to the people who made this wonderful sollution possible..

"But couldn't i give my ID-card to somebody else?? I mean it is still sensitive to fraud"

"hmmmm, good point!! Maybe we should come up with some kind of identification tag which can be implanted? Yeah, that's the ticket!! Everybody agree??...it will give you free healthcare!!!"

We will be lining up for a microchip

Good luck America!!!

Peace

Um, anyone noticed lately that you're 'forced' to have auto insurance? And if you get caught driving without it you're 'fined'?

Home insurance? Same thing.

Your life is more important than a home or a car. The insurance will be AFFORDABLE. If you can't AFFORD it, then you'd probably be on government benefits, in which case it would be provided same as it is now.

We need healthcare reform. This might not be perfect but any sort of change is welcome, IMHO.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Let it go dude. If i was to explain how i got this knowledge, you still would not believe. This will be my last reply to you by the way.

the only way i would be okay with this is if it is contingent upon your prior year's earnings...

i am in college and work a part time job...i get grants and loans...most of that money is used for classes and books...but some is used for food, etc.

if i am forced to pay for anything excessive, it will actually lessen my health because i won't be able to afford FOOD

since Obama is really gunning for this bad boy to pass soon...does anyone know the timeline for a final product and signature?

reply to post by drwizardphd


It is SOCIALISM, and the Government will decide who gets treatment, and what sort of treatment people can get.

Nationalizing the healthcare, is Socializing it. Just like Nationalizing GM was Socializing it.

Obama discusses deathbed measures
At a healthcare town hall, he says stopping futile procedures for the terminally ill can lower costs.

By Peter Nicholas
June 25, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and dont stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they dont unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

He added: "Maybe youre better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.

She fell and broke her hip, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?"

Obama's grandmother died two days before he was elected president in November. It was unclear whether she underwent the hip-replacement surgery.

www.latimes.com...

That's coming from President Obama's mouth itself....




[edit on 3-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I know perfectly well that Socialized healthcare is not free, whichi s why most "Universal or Socialized healthcare systems" are either bankrupt, or at the brink of bankruptcy. But the claim that Socialized healthcare is free is what most Liberals, and the Liberal media claim.

BTW, you do know how people in Communist regimes get the so called "free healthcare and free educaton"? They do MANDATORY Community Service doing hard labor for the state.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

It is SOCIALISM, and the Government will decide who gets treatment, and what sort of treatment people can get.

Nationalizing the healthcare, is Socializing it. Just like Nationalizing GM was Socializing it.

Ok, I'm not going to bother replying any further since you are too freaking ignorant to read the bill before you go off a tirade about it.

www.whitehouse.gov...

It's a terrible, terrible plan. He is not nationalizing it, it is still privatized through the insurance companies. Health care will be no more nationalized than auto insurance. It will, however, be more expensive and less successful. You apparently do not want to read what the plan is, so when you call it 'SOCIALISM', you are only displaying your ignorance. You wouldn't know Socialism if somebody slapped you with the Communist Manifesto.

Have fun living in your own little world.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Ok, I'm not going to bother replying any further since you are too freaking ignorant to read the bill before you go off a tirade about it.

Aaah, so I guess when they throw in euphemisms to further brainwash ignorant people like yourself it is not Socialized healthcare?...

BTW the GOVERNMENT owns 60% of GM... That's Socializing it...

Originally posted by drwizardphd
You apparently do not want to read what the plan is, so when you call it 'SOCIALISM', you are only displaying your ignorance. You wouldn't know Socialism if somebody slapped you with the Communist Manifesto.

Have fun living in your own little world.

Naa, as i have said several times already I was born and was raised for part of my life in a Communist dictatorship, so i know much better than you Socialism and the "Communist Manifesto", i was indoctrinated into it as a child...

I actually experienced true Socialism aka Communism. Where were you born and raised? in a Capitalist country all your life?.... Hummm....

Not even when evidence is presented DIRECTLY FROM OBAMA's mouth people like you claim it is not Socialized medicine.... When the government controls healthcare IT IS SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE.......

[edit on 3-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Those who voted for Obama - do you feel lied to yet? Is this the change you wanted? Would you go back and change your vote for Ron Paul?

Just wait, the fun hasn't even begun yet. As soon as Al Franken is seated we'll get to see some really stupid and assinine bills things passed through a filibuster proof Democratic majority.

There was a chance to repair the damage that had been done (not all of which was GWB's fault) and you guys blew it BIG TIME, falling for the biggest huckster of them all. If you voted Obama, thank you for ruining our country.

Originally posted by sos37
Those who voted for Obama - do you feel lied to yet? Is this the change you wanted? Would you go back and change your vote for Ron Paul?

Just wait, the fun hasn't even begun yet. As soon as Al Franken is seated we'll get to see some really stupid and assinine bills things passed through a filibuster proof Democratic majority.

There was a chance to repair the damage that had been done (not all of which was GWB's fault) and you guys blew it BIG TIME, falling for the biggest huckster of them all. If you voted Obama, thank you for ruining our country.

I dont know if I would have changed my vote or not just yet. Yeah I am not happy with some of the B.S. Obama is doing but I do not believe it is actually him forcing this. There are too many behind the scenes sheninagins going on. If they weren't there then Obama just may be there for the people. But I honestly don't really know just yet.

reply to post by MysterE

LOL. That's only the beginning. Obama will "restructure" the country from sea to shining sea the way that some folks would have a hard time to find Chicago on the map. Ahahaha . . .

This decision may impact the economy, coz the law will diminish the spending power of those mostly younger individuals who are confident about their health. The law could bring problems to low income families depending on what the Congress cooks up for them. The folks would be forcefully handed over to those medical insurance hawks who will teach the buyers a lesson about a fine print. No decent politician would force the people to do business with a private sector. Have the government handle the insurance; just don't force the folks to do business with crooked American corporate world. How about penalizing the people for not buying GM cars? Coming next?

Obama is on his way to invent new economy/political system -- some cross between hard capitalism and socialism. But the outcome would surely look like an offspring of zebra and tiger -- some kind of monster that the world will shake its head over.

I really wonder how the results of Obama's home improvement enthusiasm would look like around 2012. LOL.

Originally posted by Bertha
Um, anyone noticed lately that you're 'forced' to have auto insurance? And if you get caught driving without it you're 'fined'?

Home insurance? Same thing.

Your life is more important than a home or a car. The insurance will be AFFORDABLE. If you can't AFFORD it, then you'd probably be on government benefits, in which case it would be provided same as it is now.

We need healthcare reform. This might not be perfect but any sort of change is welcome, IMHO.

You are forced to have auto insurence because you may damage someone elses property in a wreck. You are forced to have home insurence because your lender requires it in case it gets damages before you pay it off. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO FORCE HEALTH COVERAGE!

-E-

The will of free choice is coming to an end: ( Thank yuo obama, yuo socialist nazi. This is bull..ltos of people kow health insurance is corrupt, so does the senate,t he ones whoa re suposed to represent us! and look at what they did without asking US..shame on you senate. Ive known people who went to hospitol, and nurses or doctors tried to tck on more charges, saying they needed surgery for conditons they didnt have! This was at a public hospitol! Seems like were paying this money, to keep those corrupt nurses and doctors inplace with a job, and so the health insurance companys can skim some money off the top..at leat at the CEO level.