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Can the US win a war ? ...

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posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Not saying we wouldn't win but a real soldier from Russia or China is not some Taliban underfunded and unorganized. You haven't seen anything like a real war with the "war on terror".


your wrong about that, the taliban are very orgnazied and well funded... if you had any idea what u were talkin about you would know that.




posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


LoL again your trying to build up an excuse to cover your lies. He did say he had bacterial weapons because we gave it to him. He gassed the Kurds for crying out loud lol with the gas that we gave him. But that's not why you when to war on Iraq. That's just an excuse you use now. The other excuse is that Saddam was a tyrant against his people. And that to is a excuse you use now to cover up a lie. Because we supported Saddam when he was a tyrant fighting Iran. How do you explain that lol.

Its called trying to justify a invitation. By using innocent civilians as a excuse.
I bet your invitation cost the Iraq people more civilian deaths then the Gas that Saddam used to kill Kurds with.
Is that how you like to justify your invitation?


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by nenothtu
 


LoL again your trying to build up an excuse to cover your lies. He did say he had bacterial weapons because we gave it to him. He gassed the Kurds for crying out loud lol with the gas that we gave him. But that's not why you when to war on Iraq. That's just an excuse you use now. The other excuse is that Saddam was a tyrant against his people. And that to is a excuse you use now to cover up a lie.

Its called trying to justify a invitation. By using innocent civilians as a excuse.
I bet your invitation cost the Iraq people more civilian deaths then the Gas that Saddam used to kill Kurds with.
Is that what how you like to justify your invitation?





Please re-read my post above, and even MORE slowly this time. Get back to me when you're ready to discuss things, and back up your allegations, instead of just wildly throwing them around.

At no point did I say that was WHY we went to war against Saddam. I merely pointed out that the allegations of "lies" about WMDs were false, which you valiantly confirmed. I really don't think we should have gone to war with Iraq when we did, but it was coming at some point anyhow. I just think later would have been better.

It helps rationality to leave the emotions out of it.

I'll not respond again until you have something worth responding to.

[edit on 2009/7/3 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by nenothtu
 


LoL again your trying to build up an excuse to cover your lies. He did say he had bacterial weapons because we gave it to him. He gassed the Kurds for crying out loud lol with the gas that we gave him. But that's not why you when to war on Iraq. That's just an excuse you use now. The other excuse is that Saddam was a tyrant against his people. And that to is a excuse you use now to cover up a lie.

Its called trying to justify a invitation. By using innocent civilians as a excuse.
I bet your invitation cost the Iraq people more civilian deaths then the Gas that Saddam used to kill Kurds with.
Is that what how you like to justify your invitation?





Please re-read my post above, and even MORE slowly this time. Get back to me when you're ready to discuss things, and back up your allegations, instead of just wildly throwing them around.

It helps rationality to leave the emotions out of it.

I'll not respond again until you have something worth responding to.


Well i didn't have to read the much to see that your trying to cover up a lie with an excuse.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


Man, I hate to disagree with anyone on ATS, but when I defeated my guys on the battlefield, I won.

My presence indicates I won.

I'm not sure of what happened to the losers.

And I doubt they buried themselves.

Now the men at the Alamo weren't defeated. They were only killed.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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im not so sure we could given the state of health americans are in (obesity) and the fact that weve been fighting the little guys for so long, if we did take on a modern foe wed have a tough go at it. u need not resort to nukes to lose a war. if we lost it wouldnt necc. mean the end of america, wed just lose the damn war. if we got into it with north korea.. who knows... not that they are very modern but... they would certainly be determined. look at how much trouble we have with the determined taliban in afghanistan fighting a guerrilla war... weve been there 8 years and what progress have we made there.. none.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by fooffstarr
Nobody wins a war.

You might defeat the enemy on the field of battle... but you still lost.




And the reasoning for that is...?

Not good to put out a rash statement without a defense of it. You could get called on it.


Everyone loses in a war.

Even the 'winner' loses (in this modern age) millions of people, both military and civilians.

Most wars these days are used as an excuse by governments to enact slightly disturbing changes to laws.

The whole mood of the world changes in war. People become depressed, anxious.

Nobody wins a war. Everybody suffers.

Happy?



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by TheCoffinman
im not so sure we could given the state of health americans are in (obesity) and the fact that weve been fighting the little guys for so long, if we did take on a modern foe wed have a tough go at it. u need not resort to nukes to lose a war. if we lost it wouldnt necc. mean the end of america, wed just lose the damn war. if we got into it with north korea.. who knows... not that they are very modern but... they would certainly be determined. look at how much trouble we have with the determined taliban in afghanistan fighting a guerrilla war... weve been there 8 years and what progress have we made there.. none.


I agree you cant win a war on people's minds and their way of life by bombing them or by force. You only win a battle by using force and that again creates more hate.
By using force you become a invader and nothing else.

The US Bombed Afghanistan because of the 911 attacks. But are the US still trying to get Bin Laden and the people responsible?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by fooffstarr
Nobody wins a war.

You might defeat the enemy on the field of battle... but you still lost.




And the reasoning for that is...?

Not good to put out a rash statement without a defense of it. You could get called on it.


Everyone loses in a war.

Even the 'winner' loses (in this modern age) millions of people, both military and civilians.

Most wars these days are used as an excuse by governments to enact slightly disturbing changes to laws.

The whole mood of the world changes in war. People become depressed, anxious.

Nobody wins a war. Everybody suffers.

Happy?


Yes.

I'm always happy, even when I'm mad. In this instance, I'm satisfied that you've expanded your viewpoint fully enough for it to be grasped, unlike some others on this thread.

I disagree strongly with it, of course, but I'm satisfied that at least you know WHY you believe WHAT you believe.

[edit on 2009/7/3 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by TheCoffinman
 




They are not as well funded or as well organized as a conventional army of Russia or China. They have no airforce, no navy, very little artillery, no major bombs, no missiles, no tanks, no armored vehicles, etc. And I have no clue what I'm taking about? You're funny bud.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Take a good lok at this. They did tell you all a great big lie. And you saw it on TV just like me and every one else did.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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I hate to say this since I actually live in the US, but I have a few close friends that live in Iraq and if i'm taking their word for this (which I do) along with other reports scattered online, then the only thing the US is doing successfully over there is raping men, women, and children, and then by order of Obuma, covering up the evidence so no one gets pissed. People wonder why US troop suicide rates are up? That might be a clue... Saddens me...



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Genus
I hate to say this since I actually live in the US, but I have a few close friends that live in Iraq and if i'm taking their word for this (which I do) along with other reports scattered online, then the only thing the US is doing successfully over there is raping men, women, and children, and then by order of Obuma, covering up the evidence so no one gets pissed. People wonder why US troop suicide rates are up? That might be a clue... Saddens me...


Believe what you will, drink whichever kool aid you prefer.

As for me, not having been in-theater in Iraq myself, should I believe my enemies and strangers, or my friends, since I don't get the same reports that you apparently do?

I don't know your friends, but I do know mine.

Decisions, decisions...

[edit on 2009/7/3 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Genus
I hate to say this since I actually live in the US, but I have a few close friends that live in Iraq and if i'm taking their word for this (which I do) along with other reports scattered online, then the only thing the US is doing successfully over there is raping men, women, and children, and then by order of Obuma, covering up the evidence so no one gets pissed. People wonder why US troop suicide rates are up? That might be a clue... Saddens me...


My son came home from Iraq about 3 months ago. He gave me his first hand experience on the topic. He said it was a regular good old fashion house of ill repute with Orgies at all hours of the day and night in the streets. Dogs and cats living in sin.



[edit on 3-7-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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You can ridicule my friends and I all you want, but you cannot deny the pictures that have surfaced all over that show it. Such attempts from the disinfo handbook will never rattle me, as I am not really saying anything that is not already known, I just have the courage to say it out loud.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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Its all about the nukes these days.

All the honour in fighting has gone.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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I think the only time we could be free of the chains of rules is when our homeland is threatened..That is the war that will be the bloodiest,no holds bared fight ever faught by our service men..The tiger would be free'd of its cage..

Until then,wars will be waged with rules,and will be decided win loose or draw in an office in DC..



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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America ability to win a war on all fronts has been disabled, both against a massive conventional force and the assymetric ones too.

Starting with the latter, no clear objectives: The US is a force of occupation, securing forward facing bases in or around actual 'energy/resource interest' countires. History tells us going back 4000 years, all occupying forces will be repulsed or withdraw under stalemate/defeat.

Secondly, the US couldn't fund or fuel a 'major conflict' for more than two or three weeks. Firstly, the USA as a country is broke.... any major war would see BRIC countries stop buying US treasuries and they'd go broke within a month. Secondly, Russian, Chinese or Indian subs would take out the ant trail of oil tankers crossing the atlantic and the war machine would dry up and idle within weeks. America is only self sufficient in generating hot air and bull#

Russia has plenty of oil/gas to fuel a successful defensive war in eurassia.....China doesn't and is in a similar energy position to the US. I'm sure all those Ipod Factorys though could quickly retool to churn out 1 million AK-47s a week and billions of round of ammunition.

The America of today is very different of that of the mid 40's early 50's ... all this high tech gadgetry, the bits/chips come from Asia... the US couldn't retool for sustained combat, they've lost all the plant, technicalskills and finance to do so.

Looking at who's got the biggest gun or exotic stealth bomber doesn't even come into it anymore

The money numbers to fund the USA military against the Chinese Peoples Army or Russians who can field fighters at a fraction of the cost & at high effectivity levels equal to that of US combat troops.

The complexity and cost means the US have a defunct Military doctrine... even thought the Pentagon has had a Decade to change the structure, the top brass still go for Star Wars type programs with massive budgets, pork barrelling, and cronyism on defence contract and equipment procurement.

For example: Who would have thought that artillery shells and tanks rounds turned into massive roadside bombs would have taken out more tanks and APCs than the Iraqi army during invasion as the munnions were intended. One dimensional outlook, some cheap but insightful lateral thinking, unconventional tactics and the US war systems breakdown. It can't adapt quickly enough and complex systems will collapse due to chaos theory.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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No one ever wins a war. That's an arbitrary measurement applied by arbitrary minds.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
No one ever wins a war. That's an arbitrary measurement applied by arbitrary minds.


This is true...wars are fought for one reason and one reason only..... financial and trade reasons. Once hostilities are over, the victors takes advantage and we have an economically unsustainable situation. Capitalism has a short term myopic view on ROI thus favours war more than any other ideological systems

Nobody wins in the long run.

Co-operation and collabration are much better policies to employ with much better returns/benefits than military engagement





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