North Korean Rocket Capable Of Hitting Half The U.S: Scientists, page 5
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reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 05:24 AM by thereaintnospoon
I dont doubt for one moment that North Korea has missles capable of reaching mainland US. This shouldnt come as a surprise really.
But let's remember for a moment that the U.S. spends almost a trillion dollars (that we are told) on defense/offense spending yearly. We have satellites in the immediate launch area, if there were to be such a launch. We could track and follow it the moment it leaves that launcher. And also, courtesy of the US navy, we could shoot it down with our strategically placed destroyers, submarines and other "defense" tools which are all over every ocean on this planet. This all was, and still is, by the way paid for by your tax dollars, the best of the best stuff we can buy!
You can bet if anything happens, it was planned to happen. If that rocket touches Hawaii or California, it's because we dont want to shoot it down. And by we, I mean all of us cause the blood is on our hands as well. Because we elect our leaders year after year without ever questioning their motives. This is as much your and my fault as it is Rothschild and Rockefeller or the "commies", liberals, blacks, whites, jews, muslims, satan, antichrist, you name it, just take your pick. But you still paid for it. We all did.
Of course, this is just the way I perceive things, I have no problem with anyone having their own way of seeing things. But I faced myself and realized all this time we have been pointing fingers and blaming everyone and everything else. The last thing anyone wants to do is blame themselves, for that is an impossibility, it seems.


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 05:44 AM by thereaintnospoon
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Ah, I didn't know that thinking logically was to be apathetic to the real possibility of part of the U.S. being attacked with nuclear weapons by a crazy Communist dictator who knows he can't last much longer yet is hoping to go out with a big bang...

I didn't know that "thinking logically" involved being apathetic about the loss of American lives, and then "just to save face" to attack after being nuked with some regular missiles...

I would have thought that "thinking logically' actually involves trying to stop a nuclear attack on U.S. soil "before" it happened, and caring for the lives of your fellow Americans...

[edit on 2-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


I dont think he meant that satement as a personal attack on you. Maybe he meant it in a different context.
I believe that by thinking logically, he meant thinking for yourself, not what someone else is suggesting.
This is a great threat, lots of information, but basically you are just repeating what the MSM and Govt officials have been saying for years now . And to me, your opinion about the info just echoes their opinion about it. A preemptive strike on NK would more than likely trigger a war, not prevent it. And what would NK have to gain if they shot a missile our way? Why would they want their whole country pulverized? Because their leader is crazy? Maybe your version of crazy is quite different than someone else's definition of crazy. Who benefits here? A crazy man just wanting to satisfy his crazy needs or an Empire looking to expand itself?
That's what he means by logic. Coming with up with your own conclusions, rather than echoing someone elses.


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 06:04 AM by Jakes51
Now there may be a chance that the NK missles can hit more than initially thought? The nerve of the NK leadership lambasting threats and more threats. Are the US to seat on their hands procrastinating the threat before the them? Oh, their technology is outdated and the missles will probably drop into the ocean before reaching it's target? We hear that talk all of the time regarding the NK issue.

Then China requesting for the US and it's allies to return to the negotiating table but yet they have not been threatened with nuclear assault by NK. Who are they to meddle in US and allies security measures? Yes, China has quite the significant strangle-hold on the US economy because of their debt financing, however, the US has the right to defend itself regardless! I perish the thought of negotiations until further notice and a battle group should be deployed off the coast of North Korea until further notice. Let the NK government threaten some more and whine and cry about US Navy ships in their territorial waters.

Any hint of hostilities by the North will be met with force and potential annihilation of the North. That is the best diplomacy I can think of regarding the North. I am pretty sure the Chinese will contest that approach, and I say again; they have not been threatened with a nuclear exchange and it is in their best interests to sit this one out. I think the chickens have come home to roost regarding this topic and now is the time to be ready to take an extraordinary action against the threat. This is not war-monger speech at the slightest, but only common sense. The US can not afford to have millions killed in a possible nuclear attack and they should do everything in their power to see that it does not happen. This is not a parlor game of billiards and a very dangerous threat.


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 04:53 PM by ne0sophist66
reply to post by ElectricUniverse


luckily a missile such as that is a minor threat. missile defense systems are in place across the country, not to mention naval and other military branches capabilities. dont forget, in hawaii, the naval ship that shot down the satellite out of space is home ported there. im not saying were 100% safe, but if the counter measures are used in a timely and correct manner, the worry is almost non-existent. one of the only ways north korea could get through our counter measures would be with russias help, which im not entirely ruling out. russia did boast about having technology for nuclear missiles that the united states could not stop. i wouldnt be surprised if the bear gave the north koreans that technology. rule out nothing, and its usually a plausible idea that is correct.


reply posted on 3-7-2009 @ 05:36 PM by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by Spartak_FL


Actually using chemical warfare they can "win" south korea in 2 or 3.

So now the news about NK are starting to come up. Last weak "poor NK if they start a war, they have no means" now reports start to come up that it isnt so, and that they have missiles capable of reaching "half" the US... and now every american starts to think "oh... maybe they can"...

Next weak some report will come up that their arsenal contains a LOT MORE than the puny 6 nukes (lets call it... 100) equipable in ICBMs and yes... they can reach ANYWHERE in the US...

Great... I'm happy the americans are opening their eyes to the NK menace. Its serious... dont mock what you dont know or do not understand.

their power to destroy america is far more REAL than the stupid missile shield you all think its going to save the US from having a few cities leveled.

And as for the NK army... they have a lot more "guts" then the average G.I... in man-to-man fight... I would bet on the NK guy.

Enjoy the ride if this is all true.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 02:43 AM by Jim Scott
Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by Spartak_FL


Actually using chemical warfare they can "win" south korea in 2 or 3.

Having spent a military tour in SK running military operations, I find your comments ignorant of the facts. Are you suggesting that SK is defenseless against NK? You have no idea. They learned a lot from the Korean War. They're ready for anything.

So now the news about NK are starting to come up. Last weak "poor NK if they start a war, they have no means" now reports start to come up that it isnt so, and that they have missiles capable of reaching "half" the US... and now every american starts to think "oh... maybe they can"...

Next weak some report will come up that their arsenal contains a LOT MORE than the puny 6 nukes (lets call it... 100) equipable in ICBMs and yes... they can reach ANYWHERE in the US...

Great... I'm happy the americans are opening their eyes to the NK menace. Its serious... dont mock what you dont know or do not understand.

Perhaps you have not heard of the military concept called MAD, standing for Mutual Assured Destruction. NK would not benefit from nuclear war because they would not survive to see the results. Why do you think the USSR did not launch a nuclear attack? Because they liked us? At this moment, you can be assured that there are hundreds of nuclear missiles capable of hitting NK in less than ten minutes, located minutes off their shoreline. They would not get a chance to launch for long. Rest easy. You are extremely safe in the USA. You can thank your tax dollars and a bunch of the best GIs you'll ever want to meet. Thank a veteran.

their power to destroy america is far more REAL than the stupid missile shield you all think its going to save the US from having a few cities leveled.
ROTFL

And as for the NK army... they have a lot more "guts" then the average G.I... in man-to-man fight... I would bet on the NK guy.

Do you think, in your wildest imagination, you can find a NK soldier that can match this: www.foxnews.com...
You have the wrong idea about the US soldier. The American warrior is the strongest fighting force on Earth. There is nothing on Earth that the US soldier will not do for freedom and peace on Earth. Come back to reality. Please. Take a ride down the road of the list of US soldiers that have won the Medal of Honor, and tell me about the average GI. Ever heard of Audie Murphy? He was a wet-behind-the-ears kid, trying to raise his younger siblings, didn't smoke, didn't drink, didn't talk much, didn't chase women. His fellow GIs thought he was a weakling. Audie Murphy, your "average GI", was the most decorated soldier in WWII, and among other things captured over 100 German prisoners single-handedly. When the goin' gets tough, you're gonna be surprised.
www.osan.af.mil...
Enjoy the ride if this is all true.


North Korea fired their short range missiles on our Independence Day. I suppose their helping us to celebrate freedom. That's fantastic. www.foxnews.com... "Our military is fully ready to counter any North Korean threats and provocations based on strong South Korea-U.S. combined defense posture," the Joint Chiefs of Staff statement said.


[edit on 4-7-2009 by Jim Scott]



reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 03:17 AM by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by Jim Scott


Well... if MAD still exists and like you said and absolutely correct it stands for Mutual Assured Destruction... now... key word - MUTUAL. Se where mutual comes in?

Its not OWAD... (one way assured destruction) its mutual... now if you think thats cool... well who am I to judge or to contradict someone that just said "fine cause we have MAD) so that pretty much means wiping out Korea AND the US.

As for South Korea... no, they dont stand a chance. The only reason they're still there is because the US is there covering their asses and if they move against SK they would have to deal with an all-out war, which they werent prepared until maybe now.

SK is not a nation of war... NK is. And that pretty much says it all about a "supposed" conflict between them. NK has born warriors... the mentality and indoctrination of their army transcends everything learned in SK or even the US.

Like some said in other thread, they can withstand far more losses than the US can. Some gave the example of Russia... you think they care about losing 1 million man defending their country... no. They wont... and they will keep defending it. Is the US willing to lose 1 million men? Or even 500k?

Strategically, NK is the living hell for anyone that gets in there. What are the US targets? Pyongyang? Sure they care... They will still get power from "god knows where in their mountains up there which neither you, me or even the oh-so-powerful US army knows where they are. Its a harsh terrain... if you wanna win a war if you have to go IN... on foot. And that is a problem is NK. The US army is not prepared to face the situations, terrain advantages, difficulties that lie ahead and rend most of the "most powerful weapons" useless... M1 - useless in mountains for example, but NK does have tanks specially designed for it. Air Force... well the US is used to "clean space" long range missiles and long range combat... well... in NK, terrain topology suggests that they would be in advantage flying low in between the mounts in close range dog fights, which the US isnt quite used to. So that rends all the "long range" capability of the US air force... join that with the constant training of the NK AF which you still underestimate because they use migs. Now the migs have a tough maneuverability for the US to match. Plus the AF in NK seems to come out of nowhere within seconds (see the case of the US spy plane which was kindly escorted out by 2 of them and the "SPY PLANE" didnt even see them coming... one minute and they were side by side with it.

There was some simulations done in the 90s, I cant find the link I'm sorry, which gave NK victory over the US using both nuclear and conventional war.

I dont mean to bash the US army or anything with this... I just mean to warn all the people that think the NK is a "piece of cake" and keep underestimating NK because they dont have the latest technology when "old stuff" can still bring you down... and yes, the AK-47 still has quite a punch and it is still stronger and more durable than the modern more sophisticated equivalents.

I just say... dont underestimate your enemy. The guy didnt stop the nuclear program... the US did nothing. They enrich plutonium, the US did nothing. They have their leader saying he wants to eliminate the US from the face of the planet, the US did nothing... now seems like they have nuclear capability of reaching half (and that I think is a "safe" call just to... well not create over-panic cause I would bet its a little more that "half") and the US still does nothing... I'm glad the US Armed Forces dont underestimate their enemy like people in here do, cause they know what they're up against and they know it will be ugly... so better stay quiet.

Saddam didnt do or say 1/10th of what NK did, had 1/100th of what NK has, and got bombed to oblivion in 2 or 3 consecutive nights.

think.


reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 04:03 AM by Jim Scott
Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by Jim Scott


Well... if MAD still exists and like you said and absolutely correct it stands for Mutual Assured Destruction... now... key word - MUTUAL. Se where mutual comes in?

What's the point? Do you think that NK will love the satisfaction of attempting to wipe out the US, while knowing they will never realize that it happened or not? Your logic fails me. I don't understand what you are saying, unless you think a country likes to be incinerated just for the sake of principle.
As for South Korea... no, they dont stand a chance. The only reason they're still there is because the US is there covering their asses and if they move against SK they would have to deal with an all-out war, which they weren't prepared until maybe now.
So, you are saying they don't stand a chance, but they stand a chance. Makes sense to you, does it? Have you served on-site like I have? Would you know first-hand like I do?
SK is not a nation of war... NK is. And that pretty much says it all about a "supposed" conflict between them. NK has born warriors... the mentality and indoctrination of their army transcends everything learned in SK or even the US.
You have greatly exaggerated the lack of preparedness of SK. Imagine a country where freeways can be converted to runways in minutes. Where rivers can be redirected to flood armies. Where bridges can be rapidly changed. Where railroads are restricted to mass use, like Europe between countries. Imagine a country that is outfitted for all-out war for fifty years. Then tell me they aren't ready. You haven't been there to see it. It's not like the good-old USA urban setting. You should talk to some other military that have served in SK as I have. Find out from them if you don't believe me. PS: The SK soldier is one tough soldier. They were one of the most feared soldiers in the Vietnam war. I was in that, too. While the US homeboys were fighting like soldiers, the ROK soldiers were mutilating NVN bodies and hanging trophy body parts on their bodies. They were animals.
Like some said in other thread, they can withstand far more losses than the US can. Some gave the example of Russia... you think they care about losing 1 million man defending their country... no. They wont... and they will keep defending it. Is the US willing to lose 1 million men? Or even 500k?
ROTFL

Strategically, NK is the living hell for anyone that gets in there. What are the US targets? Pyongyang? Sure they care... They will still get power from "god knows where in their mountains up there which neither you, me or even the oh-so-powerful US army knows where they are. Its a harsh terrain... if you wanna win a war if you have to go IN... on foot. And that is a problem is NK. The US army is not prepared to face the situations, terrain advantages, difficulties that lie ahead and rend most of the "most powerful weapons" useless... M1 - useless in mountains for example, but NK does have tanks specially designed for it. Air Force... well the US is used to "clean space" long range missiles and long range combat... well... in NK, terrain topology suggests that they would be in advantage flying low in between the mounts in close range dog fights, which the US isnt quite used to. So that rends all the "long range" capability of the US air force... join that with the constant training of the NK AF which you still underestimate because they use migs. Now the migs have a tough maneuverability for the US to match. Plus the AF in NK seems to come out of nowhere within seconds (see the case of the US spy plane which was kindly escorted out by 2 of them and the "SPY PLANE" didnt even see them coming... one minute and they were side by side with it.

There was some simulations done in the 90s, I cant find the link I'm sorry, which gave NK victory over the US using both nuclear and conventional war.

I dont mean to bash the US army or anything with this... I just mean to warn all the people that think the NK is a "piece of cake" and keep underestimating NK because they dont have the latest technology when "old stuff" can still bring you down... and yes, the AK-47 still has quite a punch and it is still stronger and more durable than the modern more sophisticated equivalents.

I just say... dont underestimate your enemy. The guy didnt stop the nuclear program... the US did nothing. They enrich plutonium, the US did nothing. They have their leader saying he wants to eliminate the US from the face of the planet, the US did nothing... now seems like they have nuclear capability of reaching half (and that I think is a "safe" call just to... well not create over-panic cause I would bet its a little more that "half") and the US still does nothing... I'm glad the US Armed Forces dont underestimate their enemy like people in here do, cause they know what they're up against and they know it will be ugly... so better stay quiet.

Saddam didnt do or say 1/10th of what NK did, had 1/100th of what NK has, and got bombed to oblivion in 2 or 3 consecutive nights.

NK is nothing for us. In addition, what do you think China is going to do, sit around and watch us fight alone?

NK appears to be lightening up a little. Today they posted their first beer commercial on state television. How bad can they be if they like beer? LOL www.foxnews.com... This missile firing happens on our July 4 to get attention. It has happened before, and it will again. The missiles aren't going far, the NKs are not after us, etc. Stay cool. "Maintain an even strain."

Procedurally, they have violated the United Nations rules. Where are the United Nations "forces" to back up their rules? Is it always us? How about a coalition of Russia, China, Japan, and so on to get on their case?

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Jim Scott]
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