Originally posted by apacheman
While North Korea could hurt the US somewhat, they have an extremely limited capacity to do so. A couple of nukes would hurt, but would cause no real damage to the US as a whole. And once they've shot their wad, then what? As long as you don't try attacking them in revenge, nothing.

I'd say simply ignore them, even if they nuke us. If you must do something to save face, drop a few cruise missiles on what little they have that's worth wasting a cruise missile on and forget about it. By the time they could build more missiles another generation or two will go by.

It would be a terrible military mistake to invade NK to "punish" them. There's no upside to it: a nightmare terrain populated by desperate fanatics with no reward if you "win". Big "if"...the terrain is worse than Afghanistan to fight in.

That is a nice idea apacheman..honestly. It would be nice if it where that easy. There is no way that the people or government would just take that and turn a cheek. That is a BIG deal. You talk about them blowing there lil nuke wad and being done with it. I could see myself possibly agreeing with your statement if it was some small arms fire, or a sling shot. I guarentee that if lil kim does make the mistake of attacking us with nuke weapons, NK will feel a pain never seen before.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

Originally posted by apacheman

Thanks.

Nice to know someone around here can think logically.

Ah, I didn't know that thinking logically was to be apathetic to the real possibility of part of the U.S. being attacked with nuclear weapons by a crazy Communist dictator who knows he can't last much longer yet is hoping to go out with a big bang...

I didn't know that "thinking logically" involved being apathetic about the loss of American lives, and then "just to save face" to attack after being nuked with some regular missiles...

I would have thought that "thinking logically' actually involves trying to stop a nuclear attack on U.S. soil "before" it happened, and caring for the lives of your fellow Americans...

[edit on 2-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I do not think nuclear weapons will ever be used by the United States again unless there is a threat to the nation as a whole....like the well being of the entire nation is at stake. I do not think NK has the power to ever pose that grave of a threat to us. If they do attempt (I fully believe an ATTEMPT will be as close as they ever get) hitting us with nukes, I believe our military commanders know that NK is not worth the aftermath consiquences of hitting them back with nukes. We have enough technilogical fire power to take care of NK with out nukes

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

ElectricUniverse, there were no so called WMD left in Iraq after we went in back in 91, your paranoid ramblings are verging on the ridiculous. Sanctions against North Korea have brought about a huge amount of suffering among the population, just as sanctions against Iraq between 91 and Bush's little adventure did. It's a bloody third world country and its only importance to America is its proximity to China. If China wanted to take down the USA it could have quite easily done so LEGALLY under international law when Bush jnr threatened to nuke it after a few weeks in office. If Russia wanted to take down the USA it could have quite easily done so during the Cold War.
America is falling, for all it's military might, technology and brave people it's leaders are biting too deep into the apple, they cant swallow, they cant chew, they can only bite deeper, soon they will choke. As sad as it makes me to say it, they will deserve it, as did my country Britain when it became no longer Great. Empires fall brother, accept it.
This information about NK capabilities is designed for one thing, that is to get Americans worried enough to support action, dont buy it.

Originally posted by SOXMIS
ElectricUniverse, there were no so called WMD left in Iraq after we went in back in 91, your paranoid ramblings are verging on the ridiculous.

The only ridiculous ramblings come from people like you. A U.S. official who was in charge for monitoring Saddam's Miltiary activity presented proof that the Russian govenrment helped Saddam's regime move it's WMD, and he is asked to resign for "exceeding his authority for disclosing this information"?.... We also got the Second in Command of Saddam's Air forces, Georges Sada, state that he knew that aircraft were being modified to transport WMD out of Iraq, and high ranking ex-Russian military defectors said before the war that Russia had/has working plans to move WMD out of countries like Iraq when the U.S. or anyone form the west got too close, and you claim I am rambling?......

Rambling is CLAIMING that because no WMD were found that is enough evidence there were none when we found tons of documents on WMD in possession of Saddam's regime, alongside the fact that we also found key components of centrifuges for making nuclear weapons which iraqi scientists were ordered to bury....

Originally posted by SOXMIS
Sanctions against North Korea have brought about a huge amount of suffering among the population, just as sanctions against Iraq between 91 and Bush's little adventure did.
.............

And still Kim and his thugs are living in luxury and they can spend millions, if not billions of dollars to get nuclear weapons, and other missiles meanwhile their people are starving....

Neither Russia, nor China could "easily" attack the U.S. when we were stronger... Even if they attack openly now it won't be easy for them...

This is the reason why the Chinese government came out with the Assymetrical warfare on how to destroy the U.S. slowly, by attacking us with hackers, using terrorists to attack us, attacking our economy, weakening our ties with our allies, turning the world against us, and finally weakening and attacking our military...






[edit on 2-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
No offense, but I find that sort of attitude as being a bit naive, and simply underestimating an enemy just because of some past failures.

Underestimating enemies in the history of mankind has cost many nations the lives of many people, and even their entire civilization.

Underestimating an enemy is always dangerous. More so when such an enemy is as crazy as Kim, and has the help of other countries, such as Russia, and China, which are "enemies", and not friends like they claim of the U.S.

Well, actually, I do take offense at someone being presumptuous and implying that I am a simpleton. The conclusions I draw are based on acute personal observation, and education. Unlike virtually all of the longstanding and fantastic theories of doom present here and elsewhere, my "naive" judgment, is proven true by each day that passes.

So allow me to elaborate, as a my previous post apparently did not seem to stimulate the process of thought I intended.

North Korea will not launch a missile toward any U.S. territory with an intent to cause damage and start a conflict. It takes roughly a week to assemble a missile, and there are only two such facilities in the entire county. Depending on what delivery method the DoD deems ideal, the response time ranges from several minutes, to several hours. As such, the North Korean military knows that their ability to project power is fragile. Within a few days they would be confined only to the Korean Peninsula, and only then mainly on land. Despite the collateral damage and human loss, a North Korean defeat is inevitable.

If we are to believe the reasoning of the North, they are firing these missiles to guard against U.S. aggression. But in reality it makes no difference if such missiles were fired or kept in storage.

The United States presently has sufficient capability to guard against the North Korean missile threat scenario, with a high probably of success. Even factoring in asymmetrical and unknown variables, a worst case scenario is one which the U.S. can absorb and recover from quickly. South Korea too would prevail and recover, albeit more slowly as it will suffer greater loss as a country. So IF the United States & South Korea were hell-bent on a preemptive attack, the missile threat would not be deemed a critical deterrent. It is abundantly clear that both countries have no intentions of such a thing. This is clear at both a fundamental level, and at a tactical one.

As such, these actions by North Korea are nothing but a desperate act to gain clout in discussion engagements with some of the very countries deemed enemies. Overall they want to gain consideration, concessions, and even aid. At a fundamental level "we" want them to cease such activity because it causes disturbance in the international scene, and international life. This very thread, these very speculations, protests, both personal and diplomatic, etc... These are not welcomed occurrence among the halls of powers, it is a nuisance. At a more strategic level there is the possibility of military miscalculation, accidental tragedy, shifting military balances, arms races, alliances, a negative change among regional policy, etc… These too are possible unwelcome development, which can result from such North Korean behavior.

So, yes, I sleep very peacefully at night.

But by all means, lets hazard a guess and even run computer simulations without proper perspective in the results.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by WestPoint23]

Okay EU first up I, along with any soldier to have the privilege of intelligence briefings during the Cold War, was made clear of the fact of Russia's superiority. Secondly America would run out of bullets before China ever ran out of bodies to throw at it.
Yes indeed Kim laps it up, as did Hussein, as does your ruling elite during these times of hardship, whats your point there? These psychopaths still need the support of their people to take action against anyone, let alone a monster as big as the USA, what good would a starving population be in war?
Last, and by no means least, I wouldnt trust anyone's word on what Iraq, or Iran or North Korea has. I was in the north of Iraq during 91 and I could see with my own peepers they had squat left, then add over ten years of sanctions, bombing missions, inspectors and all the rest, what you left with? Don't buy into it is all I say.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Well actually I do take offense at someone being presumptuous and implying I’m a simpleton. The conclusions I draw are based on acute personal observation and education. Unlike virtually all of the longstanding and fantastic theories of doom present here and elsewhere, my "naive" judgment is proven true by each day that passes.

I am not being presumtuous and at least in this case you are treating this with a total disregard to what is a real threat. Yes, I do find it is naive to try to disregard this information out of hand "just because of past failures" from NK.

I am not making a personal attack at you, but rather at your total disregard for this information.

Just because they had failures in the past it doesn't meant they will continue failing.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
So allow me to elaborate, as a my previous post apparently did not seem to stimulate the process of thought I intended.

My process of thought is "well stimulated", just because I won't just disregard information that is being put forth by scientists who researched this doesn't make my "process of thought any less stimulated"...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
............
The United States presently has sufficient capability to guard against the North Korean missile threat scenario, with a high probably of success. Even factoring in asymmetrical and unknown variables a worst case scenario is one which the U.S. can absorb and recover from quickly. ............

Except for the fact that it seems as a real possibility that Russia, and China are helping North Korea develop better missile capabilities.

You are also assuming that the U.S. can easily recover from such an attack, but a nuclear weapon being dropped on U.S. soil is nothing to disregard as easily as you "seem" to.

Crazy Kim is the one in power in NK. He knows he is losing power, and getting weaker due to illness as the days pass by.

This man, and his regime have no regard whatsoever for their people. Even if concessions are made now, Kim will take this as a weakness by the U.S. and will use this once again to get more money, meanwhile getting better prepared, and eventually we will say "enough is enough" more so during a time when there is a global economy crisis.

I am not ready to disregard this information, and computer modeling of military equipment is a lot more accurate than computer modeling of Climate Change will ever be.




[edit on 2-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

What do you know about Kim Jong Ill EU? I mean what do you really know, other than what your told, possibley by men just like your Shaw chap. What do you know about Iraq, or Saddam, or anything that is fed to you over media. Please quit while your behind, take a breather, enjoy your life and love your family. Your country is the only country to have used nukes in an offensive, you have more to fear from your own leaders than anyone else on the planet.