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Another great myth: Gods/Prophets born on the 25th December

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posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Hi ATSers,
during the study of many different religions one thing that has become apparent to me is the numerous accounts by differing faiths of their God/prophet having its birthday on the 25th of December.
Why is this considered such an auspicious date?

Here are some of the deities, that have been claimed to have been born on the 25th dec. If there are any others known please let me know.


Other deities not born on Dec 25 By Daniel Florien on December 26, 2008 in Atheism, God, History, Superstition.
I know my readers are far too intelligent to think Jesus was the first deity not born on December 25. Regardless, here’s a list of some other deities that have claimed Dec. 25 as their own. It includes: Horus (c. 3000 BCE) Osiris (c. 3000 BCE) Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE) Krishna (c. 1400 BCE) Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE) Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE) Heracles (c. 800 BCE) Dionysus (c. 186 BCE) Tammuz (c. 400 BCE) Adonis (c. 200 BCE) Hermes Bacchus Prometheus A busy day in the life of the gods!I know my readers are far too intelligent to think Jesus was the first deity not born on December 25. Regardless, here’s a list of some other deities that have claimed Dec. 25 as their own. It includes: Horus (c. 3000 BCE) Osiris (c. 3000 BCE) Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE) Krishna (c. 1400 BCE) Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE) Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE) Heracles (c. 800 BCE) Dionysus (c. 186 BCE) Tammuz (c. 400 BCE) Adonis (c. 200 BCE) Hermes Bacchus Prometheus A busy day in the life of the gods!


It is also interesting to note that quite a few of these are also supposedly the product of 'Immaculate conception';






My last point: does this not make Christmas a myth also???





posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Very good, however, the people who do believe in all this, already know this stuff if they have been here for any time.

The problem is they STILL BELIEVE


I believe we were created, but not by the father of a virgin born jewish zombie.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


I know Im posting without source but its because I cant remember most titles or sites where I watch or read stuff. Although if there are any astronomers on here they might be able to shed a bit of light.

The 'sun' was the first truely worshiped "Object or diety", on and around the 25th of december the sun would rise, but only to the line of the horizon and set again, this was repeated for three days after which the sun would rise again in its normal way. It was known as the ressurection of the new sun, or ressurection of the Sun God. Which is now known as the 'Son of God' or (Im not a hater) Jesus and his MANY predecessors.

Apparently anyone born on this day would have been labled as the Son of God, for being born in its ressurection, so instead of worshipping the sun, people now worshipped a 'Son of the Sun God'.

I may be wrong. I'd be quite happy to be told so if I am.

G



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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From my understanding in studying various religions, both past and present, is that the date comes from the proximity to December 21st, the shortest day of the year, and pagan religions use of that date as the 'Rebirth of the God', as the sun, which represents said God, begins to stay in the sky a little longer each day from that point forward. This has been proven in the case of Christianity, as it also 'adopted' other pagan traditions, such as gifts, decorating a tree, etc.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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The 25th of December is merely a nominated day which made the transition from Paganism to Christianity easier for Constantine's people.

I don't think many people actually believe that Jesus was born on that specific day, and I don't see how it makes "Christmas a myth"... It's just a nominated holiday.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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In the bible it states that Jesus was born in the spring time, due to some sort of animals and fields. However, I think it was the church that decided to make Jesus's birthday sometime in January and then they moved it to December 25th to attack the Pagans.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Or more likely it was moved to December 25th to help lure pagans into converting. So many pagan traditions and dates were integrated into Christian denominations for that reason alone.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Osiris1953
 


or that. Thats what I forgot, thanks for bringing that up. An excellent point
Star for you.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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I said it first! Where's my star?



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Roark
 


Yes you did, and didn't notice either. I apologize.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


I believe this is a none issue. Having been raised in a christian family I have known for a lon g time that dec. 25 was simply the date chosen to celebrate Christs birthday. In fairness though I cannot remember if we were told why that date was chosen.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by Osiris1953
 


Yeah. How about the anomoly of the 'Christmas tree'!
I supposed this can be rationized as some connection with the 'Burning Bush'?
But it sounds like veneration of the Pagan 'Green Man' to me.A ritual of worship of vegetation, in order to produce a good yield the next planting season.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by KRISKALI777
reply to post by Osiris1953
 

.A ritual of worship of vegetation, in order to produce a good yield the next planting season.


That pretty much sums it up. It's conquering through familiarity. If one can make a new religion similar to those that are already in existence you certainly stand a better chance of getting converts.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Osiris1953
 


I find it interesting the responses that I have gotten from this board, when challenging the enigmas such as Christianity.
I seem to get the down-right logical (as yourself) or the zealous (defend the lie beyond any form of logic) brainwashed response. Thankyou.
Its a complete study in itself the way in which, ancient religions when hard to conquer, where somehow incorperated within the structure of the church.
Look at Celtic Christianity for example.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Well, there are always going to be those that are logical and those that are zealots. The way I see it all religions were influenced by the people/culture in which they were formed, and those same cultures invariably end up destroying the message their religions were meant to convey by the very cultures that created them. I figure that the phenomenon of religion is too wide spread, and contain too many parallels amongst them to be considered false. They have just been twisted and clouded by those who seek to control through religion, those who are close minded, etc.

The need to convert all those that aren't a member of your religion is what causes these irreversible damage to anything altruistic about religion. In the end, my philosophy is that if you study all religions in a clinical, logical, yet open minded manner, you might just find the path to truth.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by Osiris1953
 


I agree with you wholeheartedly!
Isn't it annoying though; when you have studied the merits and pitfalls of many religions, and you may bring up a pint that is near to bone for some; the amount of opposition and hateful comments that you may get as a response!
And I thought most religions were about altruism.?



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:03 AM
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Bite your tongue!


Christmas IS FUN.

Who cares about the God and Jesus being born and whatnot? Personally I don't believe in A God, but...

...Just because it's called "Christmas" doesn't mean non-Christians can't receive little nicely-wrapped presents from their parents!

Haha! Any excuse to get free stuff.

But really, this holiday is so entrenched in American (and global) culture. Associated with snow, carols, warm cider/cookies/gingerbread men, presents, magic, and cosying in the posy.

Now people (hopefully) don't bother themselves with all the nitty-gritty histories of celebrating, LITERALLY, Christ's birth on that day, going to church, etc. Though some do, I think they're missing out on what the day entails, and rather focusing on what the day MEANS in LITERAL sense, and thus doing it.

But you did great, nice information about the date. Very well-researched.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Well, there are always going to be those that are logical and those that are zealots. The way I see it all religions were influenced by the people/culture in which they were formed, and those same cultures invariably end up destroying the message their religions were meant to convey by the very cultures that created them. I figure that the phenomenon of religion is too wide spread, and contain too many parallels amongst them to be considered false. They have just been twisted and clouded by those who seek to control through religion, those who are close minded, etc.

The need to convert all those that aren't a member of your religion is what causes these irreversible damage to anything altruistic about religion. In the end, my philosophy is that if you study all religions in a clinical, logical, yet open minded manner, you might just find the path to truth.


Very well-said.

Many religious people do not think "logically" - they blindly follow their faith so much that they cannot see where their faith falls short, and where people are just cheating them or trying to control them.

There are SO MANY pastors who attempt to rile people up due to their "beliefs", and some of them (as well as OTHER conmen) try to sell things like "holy water" and they just create so much trouble.

Then there are the people who against all odds, HAVE to try to make people see the "Christian" way. Why? Because it's the "right" way and the "only" way. They argue to the ends of the Earth, with "proof" from the Bible, and go about it in such a roundabout manner you wonder if they even HEAR what they're saying.

LOGIC is the one and only way to find truth. Logic, and to that extent, TIME.

You can find such people both in the real world and on ATS.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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Someone brought up the Christmas tree...and I have some cool thoughts about that...

en.wikipedia.org...




An Asherah pole is a sacred tree or pole that stood near Canaanite religious locations to honor the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah.[1] The relation of the literary references to an asherah and archaeological finds of Judaean pillar-figurines has engendered a literature of debate.[2] The asherim were also cult objects related to the worship of the Hebrew Goddess Asherah, the consort of Yahweh. The insertion of "pole" begs the question by setting up unwarranted expectations for such a wooden object: "we are never told exactly what it was", observes John Day.[3] The role of the Asherah reflected in the texts was likely rewritten and reinterpreted by the followers of Ezra, upon the return of the Jews from captivity and the writing of the Priestly text.[4] Though there was certainly a movement against goddess-worship at the Jerusalem Temple in the time of king Josiah, it did not long survive his reign, as the following four kings "did what was evil in the eyes of the Lord" (2 Kings 23:32, 37; 24:9, 19). Further exhortations came from Jeremiah.


So who is this asherah

en.wikipedia.org...




Asherah (from Hebrew אשרה), in Semitic mythology, is a Semitic mother goddess, who appears in a number of ancient sources including Akkadian writings by the name of Ashratum/Ashratu and in Hittite as Asherdu(s) or Ashertu(s) or Aserdu(s) or Asertu(s). Asherah is generally considered identical with the Ugaritic goddess Athirat (more accurately transcribed as ʼAṯirat). The Book of Jeremiah written circa 628 BC probably refers to Asherah when it uses the title "queen of heaven" in chapters 7 and 44.[1] For a discussion of "queen of heaven" in the Old Testament, please see Queen of heaven (Antiquity).





The goddess, the Queen of heaven whose worship Jeremiah so vehemently opposed, may have been Asherah or possibly Astarte. Asherah was worshipped in ancient Israel as the consort of El and in Judah as the consort of Yahweh and Queen of Heaven (the Hebrews baked small cakes for her festival):[3] Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. —Jeremiah 7:17–18 ... to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem ... —Jeremiah 44:17 Figurines of Asherah are strikingly common in the archaeological record, indicating the popularity of her cult from the earliest times[4] to the Babylonian exile. More rarely, inscriptions linking Yahweh and Asherah have been discovered: an 8th century BCE ostracon inscribed "Berakhti et’khem l’YHVH Shomron ul’Asherato" was discovered by Israeli archeologists at Quntilat 'Ajrud (Hebrew "Horvat Teman") in the couse of excavations in the Sinai desert in 1975, prior to the Israeli withdrawal from this area. This translates as: "I have blessed you by YHVH of Samaria and His Asherah", or "...by our guardian and his Asherah", if "Shomron" is to be read "shomrenu". Another inscription, from Khirbet el-Kom near Hebron, reads: "Blessed be Uriyahu by Yahweh and by his Asherah; from his enemies he saved him!".[5]


www.freewebs.com...

www.orderwhitemoon.org...




Her name is Asherah. She was a beloved household Goddess and Mother Creatrix. Her home encompasses much of the Middle East, where She was worshiped as the Tree of Life in a Garden where the Serpent was her sacred totem. It is said that even King Solomon worshiped and knew Her as "Qaniyatu Elina"; "She who gives birth to the Gods". Its said that the Greek Goddess Aphrodite descends from Asherah, as well as her other becomings including; Astrate or Ashtouth and Ishtar. Asherah has many names: Ashratum, Athorath, Astoreth, Elath, Eliat, Queen of Heavens. She is the Grand Mother of Muslims, Jews and Christians. Her aspects include: bringing special blessings to the family and helping people achieve their goals and dreams. Asherah is also the Canaanite Goddess of moral strength, who offers to lend support and insight when we are faced with inequality or overwhelming odds. She is a Mother figure embodying a kind of benevolent and enduring, fertile energy that can reinforce just efforts and good intentions. In Urgaritic texts She is the consort of El, fertility Goddess and the wooden cult symbol that represents Her. As El's first wife, She was said to have birthed 70 sons. All gods of the myths were born to Asherah and El, with the exception of Baal, whose parentage is uncertain. El had 2 wives but it was Asherah alone who nursed the newly born gods. Seeing as she had birthed so many children it is only normal that she was worshipped as the true fertility Goddess, force of life and nature. She manifests in domestic herds and flocks, in groves of trees and in the nurturing waters. Her powers and her presence were invoked not only during planting time but also during childbirth.


Lets not forget how much we see El and a wife...and even Yahweh being associated in old days with this 'female' counterpart.

Just some thoughts
LV



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Hi leoVirgo,
good post!
The only thing I can say is you've given another example of how biblical narrative has again encompassed other religions; I wonder if this has an correlation with the ritual of the Maypole from the ancient Britons?




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