Are people taught to sacrifice their humanity when they become parents?

I've noticed that for the past 20 years or so, people in the Anglophone world have EXTREMELY high standards for parents, especially mothers.

When a woman has a baby, they are supposed to put everything, including their own well-being, down to a very distant second to being a mom. Not that loving your children isn't wonderful because it is and I hope to experience it someday, but come on, I'm not going to give up my humanity for it and be totally defined as a parent.

Besides, when you do that you are not really doing the kids a service. They never grow up, they don't respect you because you have no passions of your own, you become paranoid and weird. A part of me almost dreads the day my sisters have babies because I fear they might no longer be a part of my life. In today's society, you are expected to forfeit your very EGO when you become a parent!

The point is, when life becomes solely about being a parent, people have become just another animal.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Well, I wouln't say it's giving up your humanity, but it's giving up your autonamy that's for sure. And I have done it gladly. If you are going to take the time to raise a child, if you are going to make that commitment, that than is what you are to do.

You can't in this day and age just leave your child to his or her own vices. Now, more than ever, parenting has to be done 24/7 as far as I am concerned. And by that I don't mean smother your child, but you should always have them in your thoughts.

Nothing comes before my children, and because of that they grew up to be amazing people, and now I can somewhat relax and pat myself on the back for a job well done. Mind you my youngest is only leaving the house in 10 years, but it's much easier now that I've raised one into an adult.

Parents need to do parenting, it's just the way it is. And yes the bar should be high, we shouln't encourage sub standard parenting and we should be rewarding those who actually do it right and produce intelligent, well spoken, educated and productive members of society.

~keeper

It's not an expectation that you give up certain things but rather your priorities change and they for most anyway change willingly. Unfortunately, you will lost a part of your sisters when they have children if they have them before you because it is a committment and you only have once to get it right.

You look at this little person and feel an overwhelming responsibility to just do and do it right. I think it's part of who we are. I don't know how old you are but this would play a huge part in how you feel. If you are young, I can understand you looking at it like giving up something but it's certainly not humanity. If anything it makes you more human and more patient with humanity.

There is a saying that I will never forget and now having my own children I know just how deep this goes.

"To the world, you are one person, but to one person you are
the world"

When you have children it is no longer about you. Period. You are raising children for the world, not just yourself. And it takes a lot of resources and time to make someone functional for society. It is the hardest job you will ever do, the most heart breaking, back breaking,straining, emotional work you wil ever ever do.

If you are worried about what is gonna happen to you, then your not ready for kids yet.

You do need to keep some things for you. Hobbies, friends, and your SO. but the children will always come first.

I would die before I would ever let my child suffer at my expense.

As far as I am concerned the day my daughter( 4 now) was born it was as if I was re-born in a way. Yes there are tremendous responsibilities as you are responsible for another human beings existence and well being. Something inside you changes ...well some people it does. As I said it is truly a tremendous responsibility and should be taken very seriously. We have to many children having children in this world and it is causing many problems. Many of these very young parents are not mature or financially responsible enough to handle it. However it is the single greatest thing I have ever done in my life and I can not imagine life without my daughter now. That being said...I am a dad so it is easy for me to say this not being a mother.

Parenting is the first step in Selflessness that teaches you, the parent, how to live to serve a greater whole than just yourself.

When I became a parent, it was difficult giving up sleep, giving up Grad School and my hopes of getting my Degree in the next 20 years or more, and putting all my research and writing projects on hold indefinitely. I don't deny that. Even putting Work second to my child was a little difficult, but not nearly as much as one might think it would. Giving up my Social Life was the hardest, if truth be told.

However, the rewards of parenting are so great that I wouldn't ever think of trading it in to have all of those things back, not even for a second.

Not only do you get to play a part in helping a child discover themselves and find their place in the World, but you learn so much about yourself and what makes you who you are. You are able to trace back all of your beliefs and assumptions, and find the root of all of the baggage that was programmed into you by your parents, by your school, by society. At that point, you discover a kind of freedom that is irreplaceable. For the first time in your life you are able to take control of programming yourself and be who you want to be, defining your life by your own terms, instead of those belonging to someone else.

After learning accountability to another life that is entirely dependent upon you and raising them to be independent (and ultimately able to take personal accountability in their own turn for another person), you not only understand the importance in taking accountability for larger groups, be it your extended family, or friends, or even on a Civic scale, but it becomes easier to do.

In many cultures, one could not take certain appointments of responsibility until they had become parents and raised a child to adulthood. Many ancient cultures wouldn't allow participation in Civic responsibilities, such as governing, until this was completed. In some religions, the mysteries of that religion aren't disclosed until one has had a child and reared them. As a parent, I understand now how sagacious this is.

In the Life Cycle we undergo many roles, but each of them must be taken in order to learn the lessons at each of those stages, lest we set ourselves up for failure.

Infant
Student
Soldier
Lover
Parent
Justice/Civil Servant
Patriarch/Matriarch/Governor
Wizened Sage/Crone

This is such a universal truth that Shakespeare even penned it out in As You Like It!

The Human Experience takes us down many paths, and Parenting is just a step towards bigger and greater responsibilities. Parenting demands many sacrifices, but it is not a sacrifice in itself, but a stage to a greater personal evolution towards Selfless service to humanity on a whole.

Lets hope you grow up a bit before you become a parent, It isnt about giving up anything, some things may need to be put on hold temporarily but its a matter of priority and thats part of being responsible.

When a parent chooses their career over their child, then they werent ready to become a parent, in fact this is most often the case, especially with fathers. I believe that this is why people are marrying and having children later and later, which is a good thing.

Im a single father of two and I have missed many opportunities in my life and career, so that I could spend time with my kids but not because I had to but because I chose to.
Its my opinion that its more important to be there for your kids, both physically and emotionally than it is to be gone because of personal aspirations, that doesnt teach kids respect, it teaches them to be selfish and uncaring for anyone but themselves and thats part of the problem with recent genearations.

I will have plenty of time to pursue things further once my kids move off to college.
I realize that sometimes a parent being gone all of the time is out of necessity for economic reasons and thats understandable.
My Dad was a Dallas Cop when I was growing up and worked all of the time. For many years I would see him "awake" for only one or two days a week because of the shifts he worked and because of the need for him to sometimes take on a second job.

They never grow up, they don't respect you because you have no passions of your own, you become paranoid and weird.

What the hell are you talking about here? Becoming a good parent makes one paranoid and weird?
I dont even know how to respond to that because it makes no sense.

What the hell are you talking about here? Becoming a good parent makes one paranoid and weird?
I dont even know how to respond to that because it makes no sense.

Not a good parent, I mean a parent who is NOTHING more than someone's mom/dad. Like that's their ENTIRE identity. A parent that is so good they are not good.

And of course I would put my child ahead of my career, if I had to. But I would still have other facets of my life, and they would not be "side dishes" to being a dad, they would be a side of me, and being a dad would be a side of me.

What I'm saying is American society expects people to essentially consider their children their God, and that's really not good for the kids because it teaches them to be dependent and narcissistic.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Ok I think I see what you are trying to say here.....you are talking about parents that smother their children and are involved in every aspect of their life to practically taking them to the potty into their teenage years etc, These are the parents that usually end up in fisticuffs at their childrens football or baseball games.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I've noticed that for the past 20 years or so, people in the Anglophone world have EXTREMELY high standards for parents, especially mothers.

When a woman has a baby, they are supposed to put everything, including their own well-being, down to a very distant second to being a mom. Not that loving your children isn't wonderful because it is and I hope to experience it someday, but come on, I'm not going to give up my humanity for it and be totally defined as a parent.

Besides, when you do that you are not really doing the kids a service. They never grow up, they don't respect you because you have no passions of your own, you become paranoid and weird. .

I know someone like that LOL I think I understand now why she's like that. I am a parent too. But I have not forfieted my humanity. Thank God they're teens and 10 yrs old...lol. That makes it lots easier!

reply to post by Donnie Darko


I appreciate what you are saying to a degree...but the truth is that you will never "get" what being a parent is until you are one.

People will tell you things to prepare you, but when it happens, it is still a complete and utter paradigm shift. It something akin to having your heart leap outside of your body and run around the room. Joy and panick all at the same time. You are simply no longer self-contained.

It is easy to throw stones ...but if in the future you ever are blessed with a child...and if you have a soul and a heart...you will laugh at how little you understood what being a parent truley is.

IMO children are never spoiled by too much love or attention...you can't love a child too much. Love and attention give children a sense of self-confidence and self-worth. It is in the teaching of values and responsibility or the expectation that schools will teach them the same where children go astray.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Yea, i think i get what youre saying now and I pretty much agree with most of what you said, now that i understand.. I agree that there are normal parents and then there people who are fanatical parents or zealots.
These types of people truly are strange and can actually be harmful to the childs well being.
These kids usually grow up to be spoiled brats with no respect for any adults, much less their parents.
People tend to be very possessive about their property and some people consider their kids as their property, rather than a living breathing person.
Some dog owners are even worse though. Ive known people that put their dogs at the same level or higher than a kid or any other person, those are the really weird ones.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
What I'm saying is American society expects people to essentially consider their children their God, and that's really not good for the kids because it teaches them to be dependent and narcissistic.

People consider their children their God? I haven't met or even heard of parents like that. I personally find more parents that either consider their children to be property or consider them extensions of themselves, rather than recognizing them as independent and unique individuals.

Certainly, a child would have to be more than just gifted to convince me to treat them as my God! And even then, when they did wrong or spoke out of turn, or misbehaved they would gain in the least my scornful gaze, and potentially a punishment far more severe!

Parent: God, what are you doing in there?
God: Nothin' dad.
Parent: Don't tell me "nothing"! I know you're up to something because you are being too quiet.
God: Oh, I'm just smiting the Armekelites.
Parent: How many times have I told you that you should not smite people! I raised you better than this!
God: But all the other gods are doing it!
Parent: If all the other gods got themselves crucified would you do it too?
God: But dad! You just don't understand!
Parent: Don't take that tone with me or I'm going to use my belt! Do you hear me! Now leave those Armekelites alone, and if I catch you smiting any more peoples you are going to get a smiting yourself and have all your privileges taken away for the rest of your years!
God: Oh, alright then.
Parent: "Oh, alright then" What?
God: Alright, Sir.
Parent: That's better! Now go wash up, your mother has dinner almost ready. And remember, I love you God.
God: I love you too dad.

Parenting is not about sheltering, but about setting reasonable boundaries and allowing the child to explore their world in the safety of those boundaries, so that they gain self-confidence and learn self-reliance.

When a child asks for a Credit Card it is the role of the parent to scoff at them and say "Tell you what. I will give you an allowance. Your spending limit is the bound by the amount of money I give you. How you choose to manage that money is entirely your own choice, but don't come asking for more unless you've done all of your chores and done them well! If you can prove yourself to be fiscally responsible and not beg for money every chance you get, then we can discuss getting you a Debit Card and depositing your allowance into that every time you finish your chores."

By doing such, you are setting what behavior is expected of them for a reward, you are giving them a goal and a means to achieve that goal, but leaving the details of how they use those means up to their own imagination or will. You have also set the boundaries of what is unreasonable for them and for them not to ask for again.

Even little Gods need discipline...and even though they act like they don't like it or appreciate, they do crave such discipline.

And as far as Narcissism, does your wife become Narcissistic because you tell her that she is your world, and that she is the most beautiful woman in the world to you, and that she shines far brighter than the Sun, the Moon and all of the Stars combined? Does she become Narcissistic because you bring her flowers and gifts and take her out every once in a while to somewhere fancy on "Date Night"? Well, neither does a child become Narcissistic when a parent does the equivalent of letting their child know that they are important to them, and that they are special to them.

Narcissism is a learned behavior that requires observing a Narcissist to become one. If your child becomes a Narcissist, it's not because of what you did or didn't do in parenting, it's because of the example you led in your own life by treating others as lessers, obsessing on your own vanity, and giving into delusions of self-importance.

No parent can blame Society for how their child turns out. The responsibility of how their child turns out remains entirely on the parent. The child does not inherit the Sins of the Father, but the parent certainly bears the weight of the Sins of the Child.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
.... But I would still have other facets of my life, and they would not be "side dishes" to being a dad, they would be a side of me, and being a dad would be a side of me....

You speak as if it is a choice you will make and I thought the same way too. You will be suprised how instantly this thinking goes out the window. A child looking to you to learn everything about the world, looking to you for it's very survival...being a good dad means being a dad is the "main course"..not a side dish.

But here is what you don't get yet...you will choose that course willingly and with everything you have in you.

Agreed it doesn't entitle you to abandon who you are...you need to hold onto that to teach the child properly.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by maybereal11]

Well let's put it this way ... I will NEVER put my children second to anything. But I won't necessary put everything second to my children.

Originally posted by maybereal11


Agreed it doesn't entitle you to abandon who you are...you need to hold onto that to teach the child properly.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by maybereal11]

And you need to hold onto it for your own benefit too, right?

I'm NOT saying people should be selfish deadbeats. Not at all. I would be heartbroken if my parents cared more about themselves than me. But if all you are is a parent, your only purpose in life is to reproduce, and you are basically just another part of nature. If that's what people are happy being, more power to them, but personally, I would find such a person kinda boring, unless of course they were my parent.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Yes. Agreed. Kinda a paradox though. I live for many things, but most of all my children. They are my greatest creation and contribution to the world. My most important work and if I was to borrow the language of artists...my immortality.

The people they become, the things they do and the things they teach their own children someday are what I leave to this world long after I am gone.

If I was obseesed with them to the point that I abandoned all of my own passions or hobbies then I am not teaching them how to be happy. BUT I do prioritize them above most everything.

Children learn almost exclusively by example...in the end they will do as you do, not as you say. So setting an example of a balnced and happy parent is important on that front for BOTH you and your children.

Star and flag.

A childs entire world shouldn't revolve around it's parents nor sould a parents revolve around a child. It's healthy for parents to have interests outside home and family. It's also healthy for children to go play out side with friends for the day.

That's right folks... I said the DAY. Really... It's ok.

Yes. Agreed. Kinda a paradox though. I live for many things, but most of all my children. They are my greatest creation and contribution to the world. My most important work and if I was to borrow the language of artists...my immortality.

Most people desire to make a lasting mark in this world, to be remembered for something and or to have their name and accomplishments mentioned in History books, in a positive way.
However, for the majority of the people in this world, this will probably not happen.
The only thing that I can hope to do is help and probably the most important thing that a human can do, is to contribute to the survival of the human race, which of course is done by reproducing.
So, in that sense, I have done my job as well as continuing on my names blood line.
Now my job is to raise my kids properly and hope that they contribute to the world in a positive way and grow up to be a good person.
If thats the only thing that I ever get right in my life, then I can die happy and content.

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Yes. Agreed. Kinda a paradox though. I live for many things, but most of all my children. They are my greatest creation and contribution to the world. My most important work and if I was to borrow the language of artists...my immortality.

I do see what you mean - in a way, putting your children first IS putting yourself first!