My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by T0by

 

But you don't need science to understand God. Science is a creation of man; science cannot explain God.

It's the best and only thing we have.

It's made sense of the world, the solar system, and is currently making sense of the universe. Don't tell me we don't know everything, because I know that already. But it's piecing everything together slowly piece by piece.

Nothing has been understood more than by way of science.

And I believe god will be the final frontier.

The answer may be akin to us realizing our sunglasses have been sitting on top of our heads the whole time.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by T0by]

we are all born atheists...why is this?

Originally posted by alienesque
we are all born atheists...why is this?

The same reason we're born without knowing a language.

Originally posted by alienesque
we are all born atheists...why is this?

Being an Atheist is not beleiving in God.
So to say a baby who has no idea has already chosen to a)believe or b)disbelieve in something is silly.
Babies don't believe in Science or The Theory of Evolution either doesn't mean they might when they begin to understand concepts as they get older.

Originally posted by T0by
It would mean that even with incredible scientific advances, we still would not be any closer to understanding god.

What if there is no god, and that the creation of all this is simply a logical scientific explanation? Because we can't find some omnipotent deity could imply there is no such god. It is just as equally possible that what created all of this is the fact that NOTHING could never have existed without defining what nothing is not, which is something, which renders nothing impossible (i.e. you can't have a state of zero (0), nothing, without implying that it's not 1, 2, 3, 4, ...). It is my suspicion that what created all of this, the entire multiverse, is a simple logical fact that NOTHING is impossible, because even nothing is something .. by definition. God, or rather what created all of this, could simply be the fact that ZERO (0) is impossible. God could be simple logic, and all of this is merely an illusion within that gods mind, or rather, a construct of logical possibilities ... a multiverse of all possibilities.

reply to post by Divinorumus


If I recall correctly science has been wrong on many occasions. Also, I don't think science has a logical explanation for why the universe is here. They don't even know HOW it was here.

Suffering is a human concept. and more specifically you are likely to have an even more individual definition for the word

It's called Anthropomorphism...you are ascribing human characteristics to a God in order to understand it better in your own terms. Rookie mistake. I am referring to God as "It" because I believe that would be a more accurate description. calling it "He" is again Anthropomorphism and it completely undermines the true nature of God...(If It Exists which I think enough quantum physicists have confirmed now)

If A God exists then the problem of evil is answered with the solution of free will. Man chooses to be "evil" or "good". A man with no free will that is always good would not be as valuable as a man with free will that chooses to be good. We create the Wars, we create the bombs, we create the poverty. It is simply unfair to try and blame an ultimate and absolute deity for the crimes of man, Humans have not even scratched the surface on the true nature of God....We cannot even comprehend the workings of a 4th Dimension let alone a Timeless, dimensionless & infinite being.

P.S. Natural disasters are just that...not evil

Originally posted by Flighty

The body is a machine. That is all. Some are limos, some are lemons.
It isn't YOU. It's your vehicle.

Not true, someone who is damaged in the brain loses who they 'were'. Good friend of mine suffered a serious head trauma and was never the same person again, we don't even know who he is now and he does not know us. So what are you saying when he finally dies the real him will magically return in his godly pixie dust form? Wake up dude. sigh.

Originally posted by bonsaisert

P.S. Natural disasters are just that...not evil

It knows it will happen, it let's it happen, it causes massive suffering, pain and horror. It defines evil by it's inaction. You clowns who back It up have never experienced true horror. You sit in the west behind your keyboards drinking your Starbucks and listening to Coldplay. What the f do you know about "god". NOTHING.

reply to post by contemplator


People who are in comas have come out of them and said they could hear almost everything that was said to them but couldn't respond.
No one knows what goes on peoples brains, even doctors admit that.
Your friend could still "be there" for all you know but can't communicate like they used to.
Look at Richard Dawkins.

Are you no longer here because you are asleep and unconscious for 8 hours a night?
I can feel your pain, but I think we all should wake up.
The only time you aren't here, is when you are dead. IN MY OPINION.

reply to post by contemplator


Bad things happen in the world because man fell into sin. As soon as Eve ate that fruit we fell into sin, and that's why there's evil in the world.

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by T0by
It would mean that even with incredible scientific advances, we still would not be any closer to understanding god.

What if there is no god, and that the creation of all this is simply a logical scientific explanation? Because we can't find some omnipotent deity could imply there is no such god. It is just as equally possible that what created all of this is the fact that NOTHING could never have existed without defining what nothing is not, which is something, which renders nothing impossible (i.e. you can't have a state of zero (0), nothing, without implying that it's not 1, 2, 3, 4, ...). It is my suspicion that what created all of this, the entire multiverse, is a simple logical fact that NOTHING is impossible, because even nothing is something .. by definition. God, or rather what created all of this, could simply be the fact that ZERO (0) is impossible. God could be simple logic, and all of this is merely an illusion within that gods mind, or rather, a construct of logical possibilities ... a multiverse of all possibilities.

Some people say that the physical universe was created by god, because previously there was nothing he was not. He wanted to experience himself. That may only be achieved if there is something you are not.

At least now, if we are all a part of god ( as they like to say ),

we may experience ourselves ( god ) from an external viewpoint.
This is only possible if life does not know what it is.

Hence it is two things at once, god and not god.

In fact as everyone knows, science is proving more and more just how connected we are and everything is.


I really do agree with you though. I don't really know how the god idea started. It may not exist. But we are a loooooooong way off determining that.

Much like animals instinctively just 'know' things,
there has to be a reason as to why almost every culture on earth, past and present, had some instinctive longing for a god. ( each cultures god getting progressively weirder and weirder )

Even that could merely be a mental byproduct of simply being human, not knowing wth is going on and wanting some answers.

reply to post by contemplator


You're right...what do I know? Teach me O'Self righteous one.

Originally posted by contemplator

What the f do you know about "god". NOTHING.

That was exactly my point

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

If I recall correctly science has been wrong on many occasions. Also, I don't think science has a logical explanation for why the universe is here. They don't even know HOW it was here.

See i knew you would say 'but science can't do this and this and this'.
I tried to cover myself by saying 'don't tell me it knows everything, because I know that' But it didn't work

Again, there is no other method for actively pursued discovery other than through science. We owe everything, absolutely everything to it.

Apart from new discoveries falling into our laps saying 'hey look at me, i'm a discovery', there is no other way for humanity to progress both materially and spiritually ( spiritually is debatable ).

Originally posted by bonsaisert

Originally posted by contemplator

What the f do you know about "god". NOTHING.

That was exactly my point

Everything one needs to know about God can be found in the Bible. We can know a lot about God.

reply to post by dgtempe

reply to post by octotom Deep in my heart i know there is a God. But today i have some questions. I appreciate all you have said. You are very wise and i am probably going to be punished for questioning God. I don't want to feel like this, i really dont.

Dude, take a moment to think deeply "without" emotions think logically and critically.

I can truly relate to how you feel right now as I have been there myself so my heart goes out to you.

What is the very worst thing that could happen by you doing some soul searching and trying to find out if there is a god ,as described by the bibles or a god as described by other religions?

Well, if you fear something negative happening to you such as punishment by an almighty. Then would that god really be worth caring about ?

Perhaps ATS is not the best place to come searching for the reality of a god my friend, as you will get a load of extremes.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start your search for the reality of a god at the beginning, where have people got the idea that there is a god in the sky doing whatever it does?

Well the only source of information in relation to the abraham in god is jewish scriptures and and some scriptures known as the gospels, acts, etc which were rejected by the jews.

These have all been neatly bundled together in one book with many many editions, called a bible.


So a good starting point then, would be to learn where the bibles came from , who wrote them, when were they written etc etc.

The god that appears in the bibles goes by 2 names, Yahwhe and Jesus, researching this god is pretty easy as it only appears in the bible old testament (I use this to describe all the jewish texts) and the bible new testament.

There are some scriptures that discuss this god, that have been discovered after the bibles were first edited and some of them had previously been rejected by the early editors of the bibles as they didn't fit in with what they wanted the bibles to say. Some of these texts are known as the gnostic gospels and are no less valid reading than any other material which discusses yahweh jesus.

So there you go my friend be calm don't worry grab a couple of copies of bibles and start doing your homework.

You will probably learn very quickly that the authors of the bible are unknown ,And that the centuries old claim by xtians that the bibles were the actual words of the yahwehjesus god have since been dropped through lack of evidence, in favour of the bibles being "inspired" by the yahweh jesus god.

However xtians are pretty much split upon "which" parts of the bibles were inspired by yahweh jesus.

You will often find that xtians favour the "nice bits " of the bibles being inspired by jesus god and the "nasty bits " being inspired by a demon or yawhe or satan, if you follow me here.

So there's a very good start for you my friend, crack on and do some homework , develop critical thinking skills and reason.

Don't be persuaded that if you don't believe what the bible tells you , then you'll go to hell and such find out for yourself, think for yourself and don't be afraid.

Originally posted by bonsaisert


P.S. Natural disasters are just that...not evil

You can even say that 'evil' people are a byproduct of the circumstances they were born to. Hence it's not their fault, it's just the experiences they've had which has wired their brain a certain way up until the moment of time they did evil.

Which would mean evil doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by contemplator

 

Bad things happen in the world because man fell into sin. As soon as Eve ate that fruit we fell into sin, and that's why there's evil in the world.

Well, damn.. god is very just to punish billions of people over the actions of 'eve'. Can you not comprehend how ridiculous this sounds? Unbelievable. This is everything that is wrong with humanity, pure irrational delirium.

Originally posted by Totakeke
Bad things happen in the world because man fell into sin. As soon as Eve ate that fruit we fell into sin, and that's why there's evil in the world.

That must be why America is associated with apple pie.

I like apples. I suppose there are no apples in heaven, but big bloody beef steaks? Nah, I don't think I want to go to heaven. It wouldn't be heaven unless it meets my criteria for heaven anyhow, and that would include apple pies. And, I'm not so sure I could handle 69 virgins either, three would suffice.

Now, I'm going to go have another slice of apple pie and cause the release of some more sin upon gods world. Yummy, sinfully delicious.