My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?, page 6

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reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:30 AM by favouriteslave

He already knows what you will choose before you do. I'm an atheist, he knew this when he created me. Why create those who will never believe just to see them "suffer" in the end? We have freewill of course, he is NOT all knowing, he is not Omnipotent or Omniscient. He was just a creator of sorts.

You create a planet and a species and turn them loose to see what happens. You may get bored and just leave it alone, forget about it, whatever. When we create clones or test tube babies we don't know what they will end up like do we, we just create.

He's not omnipotent either. He had to flood the entire world to rid it of a percentage of evil ones? Why kill innocent children and unborn still in the womb? If he was god he could just blink them away. Also comes back to being all knowing. He knew it would end up like that so why create them at all just to destroy them? Do you see the cruelty. This is why I believe the god of the Bible does not and cannot exist in the way most have been taught.

We are just cavemen making up stories to explain why life is so cruel. To explain the world we live in and what makes it turn.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by favouriteslave

Just because God knows everything doesn't mean we don't get free will. Even if He knew that man would fall into sin (and He probably knew) that doesn't mean we still don't get to choose.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:38 AM by Totakeke

reply to post by favouriteslave

I don't know. To answer your question we'd have to know why God created the universe at all, and we don't know. Perhaps everyone's soul's exist somewhere and God has to give everyone an equal chance to either reject or accept Him.

Yes, He knows what will happen in the end, but knowing that something bad will happen doesn't mean He can stop it. He gave us free will, which includes rejecting Him and going to Hell. God doesn't want us to go to Hell; people choose it. It's similar to a teacher giving a student a bad grade. The student doesn't receive a bad grade because of the teacher, but because of the student. God wants us to get an "A" but we have to accept Him in order to do so.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:42 AM by THE_PROFESSIONAL

reply to post by dgtempe

Number one You are not his son. He never had a son. Only his creation and the people who follow it and his chosen prophets

Number two. Hardship and suffering is a test. It is a test, plain and simple. So I assume you dont believe in tests? I wouldnt want anyone to pilot a plane with 300 passengers who didnt pass their pilots license exam. Would you? Yea didnt think so.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:44 AM by favouriteslave

You just basically said god is NOT omnipotent so you agree with me. He is powerless over his creations.

When that student starts school, that teacher has no idea what grade they will end up with, therefore the teacher is not a good substitute for the god of the bible

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by favouriteslave

I don't know. To answer your question we'd have to know why God created the universe at all, and we don't know. Perhaps everyone's soul's exist somewhere and God has to give everyone an equal chance to either reject or accept Him.

Yes, He knows what will happen in the end, but knowing that something bad will happen doesn't mean He can stop it. He gave us free will, which includes rejecting Him and going to Hell. God doesn't want us to go to Hell; people choose it. It's similar to a teacher giving a student a bad grade. The student doesn't receive a bad grade because of the teacher, but because of the student. God wants us to get an "A" but we have to accept Him in order to do so.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:47 AM by Totakeke

reply to post by favouriteslave

He isn't powerless. While it's possible for Him to intervene He's given us free will so He can't intervene.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:55 AM by favouriteslave

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by favouriteslave

He isn't powerless. While it's possible for Him to intervene He's given us free will so He can't intervene.

You're just not understanding the logic of free will. There is NO freewill when the creator knows everything from Alpha to Omega. Freewill is just a cop out for an absent, powerless being created by man to explain life.

Example

If God knows all things throughout time (as he must, if he is omniscient), then he knows every action I perform, every decision I make throughout my life, before I have done them. If God knows exactly what I am going to do on 10th July, 2030, then how can I do anything other than that?

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:58 AM by Totakeke

reply to post by favouriteslave

But that doesn't mean you didn't get to choose to do something, it just means that God knows what's going to happen. You could choose to do something else, in which case God would know (and would've known the whole time), but you still had the free will to do it.

You can still choose to do something different than your intentions, but intending to do something doesn't make it so. You could choose to do a million different things, but eventually you have to do something and God knows what it will be.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 01:59 AM by tinfoilman

reply to post by favouriteslave

So, yeah. I don't know if this really explains it so you can take it with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I got this relative. Total alcoholic. In and out of jail with DUIs. Every time he gets out of jail, well I know he's just gonna go get another DUI. Over and over and over. I mean, I know it and I'm never wrong. Always within a few weeks he gets another DUI and right back to jail for four to eight years.

Anyway, just because I know he's going to do it does not mean I made him do it.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:08 AM by favouriteslave

Think logically.

Do something, anything at all, that you don't think God could have possibly known you were going to do.

Can you do it? Can you surprise God?

If you can, then God is not omniscient - he is not all-knowing. And if he is not omniscient, then how can he be omnipotent - unlimited in his ability?

If you cannot, then how can you think you have free will? You cannot do anything other than that which God already knows you are going to do.

As an example, let's say you are walking down a corridor:
At the end of the corridor are two identical doors. Does God know which door you will take? If he does, is it at all possible for you to take the other door? You have no choice in the matter, you have no free will.
If God does not know exactly which door you will take, then he quite simply is not omniscient.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by favouriteslave

But that doesn't mean you didn't get to choose to do something, it just means that God knows what's going to happen. You could choose to do something else, in which case God would know (and would've known the whole time), but you still had the free will to do it.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:11 AM by Totakeke

reply to post by favouriteslave

Yes, it's possible for me to take the other door. Intending to take a certain door (I just edited my previous post to say the same thing) doesn't make it so. I can intend to take one door, and then I can intend to take the other. But eventually I have to choose and God knows which one I'll choose.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:15 AM by Divinorumus

Originally posted by favouriteslave
He already knows what you will choose before you do. I'm an atheist, he knew this when he created me.

That's pretty good, funny. How can you say that, being an atheist?

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:20 AM by favouriteslave

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by favouriteslave
He already knows what you will choose before you do. I'm an atheist, he knew this when he created me.

That's pretty good, funny. How can you say that, being an atheist?

I was using it as an example. Actually, I'm not an athiest but agnostic. I do believe in a creator but not the god of the bible.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:21 AM by pai mei

Read "The Continuum Concept".

Suffering is in your mind. The idea that "suffering is a part of life" is a modern one. Same as the idea that "children are by their nature antisocial , and must be educated by any means"

No Native American children were ever beaten or threatened. How did the grow up and not be some spoiled good for nothings then ? Amazing !
The same is true about the tribal children in Venezuela - the place visited by the author of "The Continuum Concept".

She also says "the Yequana (natives there) are always happy, no matter what". This fits very well with other accounts, the first colonists in America said about the natives that "they laugh at the smallest thing, like children". But they were not children, they were free people, each independent but living with his tribe-group of friends. Never doing something they did not want to do. Something like Neverland - forever ? What's not to be happy about ?

That is what people seek and cannot find in the modern world. A tribe to be part of. Meaning people who you completely trust, and they trust you the same. Cannot really explain. Something like the mafia, or Hell's Angels, or the bonds that are formed by fighting together - people that went to war together talk about .

[edit on 2-7-2009 by pai mei]

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:29 AM by Divinorumus

Originally posted by favouriteslave
I was using it as an example. Actually, I'm not an athiest but agnostic. I do believe in a creator but not the god of the bible.

Ditto, same here. Actually, I think any creator is more like LOGIC, and not some megalomaniac omnipotent deity. I.E. The state of "nothing" is impossible, because even "nothing" is definable, and thus that is something (i.e. "everything" which nothing is not must be defined to describe what "nothing" is NOT, thus "nothing" is an impossibility, and so "everything" must have therefore always existed because it MUST have always been defined). What created, or rather allowed for, all of this, is simple LOGIC. The multiverse IS and always WAS and always WILL BE, because it is logically impossible for it to have not existed. In other words, you can't define zero (0) without defining what it is not (i.e. it's not 1 or 2 or 3 or ....).

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 02:39 AM by gandhi

all i have to say my friend, is dig deeper, and don't forget that realities are just dimensions and your perspectives. maybe its not that it dosent make sense, maybe you just cant comprehend it.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by gandhi]

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 03:01 AM by CleverNameHere

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

Do not get caught in the metaphors.

Adam and Eve and the apple and Eden... come on, now.

"Eve took a bite from an apple off the Tree of Knowledge"

Eve asked God to show her more. To show her what else there was out there that he was keeping from her.

God had intended to protect them, sheltering them from the Truth.

Lucifer, the Master of trickery, convinced her that God was keeping something from her, that he was keeping her ignorant of information she had the right to possess.

Yes, she had the right to possess the Truth. She believed God was keeping important knowledge from her, so she took a bite from the Tree of Knowledge.

God, in agony, gave in, and He began to show them what they were missing.

To this day, humans are still being shown what they were missing.

The reason God did not want to show them in the first place, is because of infinity and eternity.

There are an infinite amount of possibilities, meaning an infinite amount of information.

It will take an eternity for humans to experience everything God knew.

When we leave this life, we head to an alternate dimension, to experience parts of the eternal infinity that could not be experienced in our current reality.

Some of these alternate lives will be Hells, others will be Heavens.

There is no eternal resting place.

Just know that, even if things are going bad in this life, you will find yourself in a happier situation, in another time.

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 03:09 AM by Totakeke

reply to post by CleverNameHere

That's not what it says in the Bible. In the Bible, God tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit because then they would know the difference between good and evil. We weren't missing anything. We were living in a perfect paradise until the moment Eve bit that fruit and we fell into sin.

According to the Bible, there is an eternal resting place: Heaven or Hell. Those who reject Christ go to Hell, those who accept Christ go to Heaven.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 03:20 AM by Divinorumus

Originally posted by Totakeke
As soon as Eve bit into that fruit we fell into sin.

So, we should be hating Eve then, eh? (what a fairy tale, huh!) So, why do WE have to suffer because of that evil wicked vixen? That doesn't sound very godly to me. Heck, I bet I could be a much better god than that fairy tale one.

I'm not sure I want to go to heaven FOREVER now, gawd only knows what kinds of traps have been set up to tempt us up there. Seems pretty wicked to put something like an apple tree out there to tempt us and then punish us for being only humon. Can't eat the apples, but it's okay to eat the flesh and blood of other living creatures? What kind of sick twisted perverted god are we dealing with here?

Is heaven a democracy, or a dictatorship? Can we vote for a better god?

Hey, elect me your god and I'll rewrite all the rules .. rules that make sense. "Ye can eat the fruit, but leave the other living creatures alone!" .. and "War is no longer okay!" ... and ...

reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 03:21 AM by Jim Scott

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion. I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesn't a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that??? He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault. There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.