My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

reply to post by favouriteslave

You missed the point. Of course he can intervene!
Jesus had to endure every trial we have ever had to endure
and pass them sin free in order for him to die perfect in
exchange for the sin we commit daily!
Hows that for relevant?
Why would God intervene in that? He does actually love us.
Hence his patience with us. He could wipe his hand and start over.
Maybe he should.
Jesus' death is a perfect trade for ours.
Does any of this make any sense yet?
Geez I try to write simple so everyone gets it.


[edit on 5-7-2009 by dodadoom]

NO, none of any form of religion makes any sense. You're talking to someone who used to be a devout christian here. Why do you think I am no longer? The bible from cover to cover is illogical....period.

By the way, I don't think Jesus was perfect in fact I do think he did some sinful acts along the way. Of course all the apologetic ones will make excuses for all the occasions. It's a lose lose situation when you cannot think logically about what you believe.

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

You missed the point. Of course he can intervene!
Jesus had to endure every trial we have ever had to endure
and pass them sin free in order for him to die perfect in
exchange for the sin we commit daily!
Hows that for relevant?
Why would God intervene in that? He does actually love us.
Hence his patience with us. He could wipe his hand and start over.
Maybe he should.
Jesus' death is a perfect trade for ours.
Does any of this make any sense yet?
Geez I try to write simple so everyone gets it.


[edit on 5-7-2009 by dodadoom]

But really, all of you ask that why a diety would allow suffering and pain. You must then ask the other question which is "Why does a diety allow joy and pleasure?". We live in a world that is a balance of forces, positive and negative, yin and yang, etc etc etc. You cannot have one extreme without the other in life. And even so, how would a world without suffering and pain work? Considering that the natural cycle works off the basic principle that life feeds on life, basically another organism dies so that another can live. Can you really imagine nature working without this basic principle? I know I can't.

I truely, deeply believe that a good tree cannot produce evil fruit. Therefore if the tree is producing evil fruit, the TREE IS NOT GOOD.

God=tree

reply to post by favouriteslave


Considering the fact you judge "religion" based on your experiences with Christianity which is but one of that particular classification.... Do you judge all of any ethnicity based on the actions of one? Do you judge ANY distinction of mankind based off the actions of one of it's members? If that is so *and no please don't answer* then racism must be perfectly logical to you.

reply to post by favouriteslave


Evil is a man made thing you see no where in nature beyond mankind.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by favouriteslave

I agree religion is false, religion is mans way of understanding God.
Spirituality is from God. Religion is a glee club devised to appease mans ego. It can be called a 'feel good' group.
Ones relationship with his maker is extremely personal and
thus the true rewards of that relationship are known only
between the two.
I guess you have to witness a miracle in your own life to ever
believe there ever COULD be something more....
Walking the path is hard, straying off it is easy.
Good luck to you whatever you do.

No people are just human! Religion is a man made invention.
To have pleasure is to be human
To love is human
To hate is human
To kill ...................yes IS HUMAN!

I don't like being told I will go to hell for simply being human! I don't judge, all in life is simply human. To be good you don't need a god and having a god doesn't make you good.

I am good, I serve no god and have no master. I am human. I do not expect to go to heaven and I know I'm not going to hell. I am sure of this, the pink unicorns told me so in their book written by gnomes, dictated by the Master Unicorn.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Considering the fact you judge "religion" based on your experiences with Christianity which is but one of that particular classification.... Do you judge all of any ethnicity based on the actions of one? Do you judge ANY distinction of mankind based off the actions of one of it's members? If that is so *and no please don't answer* then racism must be perfectly logical to you.

reply to post by favouriteslave


Yet you consistantly refer to "religion" as if it all meant one thing. There were "religions" in which the only way to go to "Heaven" was to die in bloody battle after killing many yourself for example. What I have repeatedly tried to bring to your attention is that not all "religion" is Christianity, though that is obviously the one you have a problem with.

Seeing as how I am from Jewish, Muslim and Christian backgrounds it will suffice to say that the Koran, Torah, Talmud and the old testament are all the same. There are bad people in all religions. Even the Eastern religions have bad people.

My experiences are not only with christianity. I do find however that some christians and muslims are more likely be intolerant of other religions. Not saying all of them so don't try to say I'm labeling one religion according to one extremist or two or maybe thousands.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Considering the fact you judge "religion" based on your experiences with Christianity which is but one of that particular classification.... Do you judge all of any ethnicity based on the actions of one? Do you judge ANY distinction of mankind based off the actions of one of it's members? If that is so *and no please don't answer* then racism must be perfectly logical to you.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Do you judge all of any ethnicity based on the actions of one? Do you judge ANY distinction of mankind based off the actions of one of it's members?

*I* can answer that one. ONE is just a bad apple. 2- Maybe they're working together- but more than that, and yes, one can begin to blame the whole- especially when the whole all act the same way, and have the same tired cliches, the same backstabbing, and the same techniques for making a brokenhearted person worse.

And, just for FYI for everyone- I used to be a Christian, too- and between being betrayed by my God AND his people on a regular basis until I am nothing more than a rotted shell of a person- I said enough. I began to ask the hard questions (Why did God create Lucifer if he KNEW what was going to happen, etc), and I got crazier and crazier responses, right up and including "How DARE you insult MY God!". I began to take note of each offense committed against me- and began to realize what kind of a mess I was in. It's why I finally swore with my dying breath, God will pay for what he's been doing- not only to me, but everyone who has been hurt like me- be it deaths, disease, or any other senseless stupidity people just do not deserve- who then are attacked by 'God's people' time and again, fed bullcrap churchie cliches, biblical confusion, and all the other bullcrap which makes them more heartbroken, withdraw from society completely, or end up like me- madder than a hatter. I will ruin God's reputation for being loving, kind and merciful (which I believe he deserves about as much as I would the title of "beauty queen"- I am as ugly as a mud fence, and I sure am NOT female.) Just like he ruined my life. My own choices, indeed.

And see... if God actually was all that and a bag of chips, someone who's constantly blabbering with him SHOULD have heard something. But, like always, no one hears anything, and I'll be fed air filled trivia like "His will, your choices", "Not his fault", (insert the cliche of the day here).

I'll bet any of you $5 God is sitting up there with Satan laughing his butt off at mine and others pain and not caring one tiny whit.

I just cant say there's no God, because someone's yanking the strings in my life a lot. And it just isn't me, unfortunately.


[edit on 5-7-2009 by wylekat]

Any organized religion that rules via fear and wants your money is what I mean. Believing in a creator and being good does not need a religion to tell them how bow and kneel.

I have no other platform to speak on here. I haven't seen a Muslim, Jew or Buddhist argue about any of these points yet. It's seems to be the Christians here trying to explain their convoluted belief systems.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Yet you consistantly refer to "religion" as if it all meant one thing. There were "religions" in which the only way to go to "Heaven" was to die in bloody battle after killing many yourself for example. What I have repeatedly tried to bring to your attention is that not all "religion" is Christianity, though that is obviously the one you have a problem with.

reply to post by wylekat


Hate to tell you not all Christians act like what most try to say they all act. Some are just as disgusted as you at the antics of their counterparts. But a great deal demonize even them with a generalization and generalizations particularly about such things as large groups of people are almost always false.

reply to post by wylekat

Why do you blame God for your shortsightedness?
Maybe he kept you from getting into a bad relationship?
From what you said, she screwed you over royally!
Would it have been better to have to be married to her
and find out a worse way?
You cant blame God cause you didnt get what you think you needed.
We all get what we need, not always what we want.

The way I see it, he saved your butt, bud.
By bringing down hardship on her!
Funny how stuff always seems to work out if you think about it.




[edit on 5-7-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by favouriteslave


I can agree with that first part and I do. BUT, you say "religion" when in fact you are only talking about Christianity, does that not strike you as more than a little dishonest or at the very least denote someone who is missing something?
And earlier, you said a "evil" try cannot produce "good" fruit. Good and evil have no place in the natural world, which as I said earlier has no place in nature where one must die so another can survive. A creature dying *widely considered a evil thing* provides a meal for another creature who will then die later and provide a meal for still another. SO either nature is evil or the concept of "evil" is bullocks. Which kills the idea that a "evil" tree cannot produce "good" fruit. Or to the heart of your analogy that a "good" god cannot create "evil" things and so thusly does not exist.

I was one of those disgusted Christians.

Something that bothers me deep in my soul and I cannot get out of my mind is Jesus calling Gentiles "dogs" To me, that's racist. Geeee we can't all be born Jewish you know. What Jesus must think of me, part Jewish, part gentile with a dash of Muslim. I'm a mutt.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by wylekat

 

Hate to tell you not all Christians act like what most try to say they all act. Some are just as disgusted as you at the antics of their counterparts. But a great deal demonize even them with a generalization and generalizations particularly about such things as large groups of people are almost always false.

reply to post by favouriteslave


Well considering the fact that it's been a very long time since he existed I find it hard to believe any of the quotes. Fish stories being an example why. And how opportunists twist things to their advantage when they can get away with it being another.

Heck I am not even sure he existed, but I do respect what I think to be his message, despite the distortion.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I use evil as a metaphor. I don't believe in evil or sin per say. I'm using it as an example.

Evil=human
Good=human
Sin=human

It's all the same. All atrocities and all acts of kindness are inherently human. To be human is to err. To be a good human is understanding the error of your ways and changing them. There is no need for a mediator, it is within our DNA to be good or not.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

I can agree with that first part and I do. BUT, you say "religion" when in fact you are only talking about Christianity, does that not strike you as more than a little dishonest or at the very least denote someone who is missing something?
And earlier, you said a "evil" try cannot produce "good" fruit. Good and evil have no place in the natural world, which as I said earlier has no place in nature where one must die so another can survive. A creature dying *widely considered a evil thing* provides a meal for another creature who will then die later and provide a meal for still another. SO either nature is evil or the concept of "evil" is bullocks. Which kills the idea that a "evil" tree cannot produce "good" fruit. Or to the heart of your analogy that a "good" god cannot create "evil" things and so thusly does not exist.

reply to post by favouriteslave


And not all belief systems place a diety as a mediator. Mediator is not central to the concept of a diety. Or should I say what we would call an diety.

True, I don't believe he existed as the bible portrays him. All we have to go off of is what the bible says about this man. He's more like a prehistoric Gandhi. If I would have put the bible together I would have omitted all the questionable things Jesus did you make him look better, then I'd invent my own religion. In a nutshell, they tried..........failed.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Well considering the fact that it's been a very long time since he existed I find it hard to believe any of the quotes. Fish stories being an example why. And how opportunists twist things to their advantage when they can get away with it being another.

Heck I am not even sure he existed, but I do respect what I think to be his message, despite the distortion.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]