My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123

 

God sent his son to die for us because God Himself can't die for our sins. Someone sinless had to physically die.

Why?
Who said that?
Didn't god have the power to take care of the problem so nobody had to physically die for our sins?
How did dying for our sins, balance things out?
Wouldn't have been easier for god to to simply erase our sins himself as that was the end result anyway?

As for God reporting to a higher power, nope, He's on the top.

Then why couldn't he have taken care of the problem himself?

As for it being required by God, it was part of His plan, so I guess you could say that. If He never sent Christ we wouldn't be able to be saved.

Why go through all that run around?
Why couldn't god have simply changed "the plan" so jesus didn't have to die so we could be saved? Why didn't god simply make sure it happened himself?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but this simply is not making sense.

reply to post by jfj123


I understand that they're genuine questions. Dodadoom answered your question on the previous page. If God just wiped our slate clean we'd have no reason to be sorry for our sins and no reason to trust in Christ. We could just sin and sin and sin knowing we had a free ticket to heaven. The Bible says, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 KJV. There's nothing we can do to pay for our sins because, well, we've sinned and are imperfect. But Christ was sinless and thus His death payed for our sins.

To expound on my former post.
God has a plan for us whether we care or even know what that is.
He knows we cannot do it alone and would choose sin every time.
He doesn't want robots programed to not sin however.
He wants people to realize that Gods way is ultimately the best way.
Any other way leads to war and death. Kind of like we have now.
God will let man realize that man's way will always lead to this.
However long this may take to accomplish.
Or untill we alomost kill ourselves, whichever comes first...

Untill we realize this, we will keep going through tribulations, most
of our own making. Only through his grace are we even still here!
We do not know how many times he has ALREADY saved this planet from destruction!
Until we learn all this as well as some humility, we will always be stuck
with immortality and be in a constant, permanent spiritual-less limbo. IMO

reply to post by jfj123

You may think it is just a run around, but
think of it as a universal law, like gravity or something.
Or think of it as ying and yang, black & white, light & dark,
good or bad, right or wrong, up or down, back and forth,etc,etc.
For humans to ever be trusted to achieve what is
out there for us, we have to overcome our warlike tendencies.
We are just not safe to expand our version of friendship.
And we are definatley, generally untrustworthy!
To take the next step in our evolution we must get past this.
Or we die with no hope at all of anything better.
Thats the ultimate form of depression. IMO

I have admired your posts and you have been a friend a long time
and I think I owe you my thoughts on this since you asked.
Thanks again.
P.S. I hope it doesnt take a calamity for you to believe in him like
it usually does! Once again, good luck whichever way you choose!




[edit on 5-7-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by moocowman

 

just answer me this.. did man write the bible or did god?

interpretation can be a funny thing... just like my pet goat.

According to some xtians god did ie jesus yahwe

According to other xtians men did

According to other xtians men did but they were inspired by god

However what is notable is that xtains are pretty unanimous, when asked which parts of the bible did the jesusyahweh god inspire.

A small percentage respond all of it, many go silent.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by XXXN3O

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by XXXN3O

He is saying that gods son did die for all mankinds sins.

If you want to call that our debt then call it that.

Thats what he is saying.

The reasons for this and the proper explanations are in the bible. Genesis, the first book tells you how this started and why all mankind is born into sin, why you die, why you need to eat, why you suffer, why you work and why you need to sleep. Man was not made for to do any of these things but the first of us chose it.

Jesus died so that you can return to what you were meant to be in a nutshell if that is what you want to be.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

So who does god answer to? The reason I ask is that he allowed his son to die for our "debt/sins". In other words, god didn't have the authority to simply cancel our debt/sins and allow his only son to live.
Seems kinda weird

Just trying to understand something that doesn't make sense.

I do not know who god answers too, if god does answer to something higher which I doubt personally.

I cannot find anything in the bible that tells who god answers too.

When it comes to why did god not have the authority to simply click his fingers and change what happened.
Man chose the path of life and death near the beginning, god did not choose this path for us, we did.
Its mankinds fault not gods.
God did intervene to help through sending his only son to pay for our choices but you still have to believe. If god clicked his fingers and changed it, that would interfere with our free will.

Take some time to read the bible and understand it, it will answer almost all of your questions if you give it time, the rest can be answered by asking god.

Thats your choice and it might seem far fetched but when you remove the dust from your eyes you will never see things the same.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

But that doesn't answer the question of how/why jesus needed to die to pay for our choices. Why couldn't god have simply done this without allowing his only son to be killed ?

I've read the bible many a time and found many inconsistencies and things like this that simply don't make sense.

Do you understand my question regarding jesus' death or am I just spinning my wheels here? Not trying to be rude but I'm just trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense to me.

Its not that complicated.

God cannot interfere with anything by making a change otherwise he is dictating, god gave man freewill and this prevents that.

Jesus was gods son who was born free of sin, he sacrificed himself for everyone elses shortfall and defeated death to allow man a path back to god.

If jesus never came to earth and never done the things he did we would have no existence after death because we are all born into sin due to the start where mankind was banished from eden. If you believe in Jesus and accept him, you have a path back to god.

If god simply clicked his fingers and fixed everything, we would just be mindless drones with no free will to choose anything.

I dont know how I can make that more clearer.
Man made the choice of the path of knowledge which ends in death.
In a nutshell, god did all he could do to fix this without breaking free will, through Jesus.

reply to post by moocowman


The Bible is God's word. It was written by God, but recorded by humans. Besides, the whole Bible isn't just about Jesus. Jesus is an important part, but there are other important things in the Bible, too.

Catholic here also, not very devoted, but have taken faith formation and have been confirmed. That did ponder about that question for a little, but I'm going to show you one of my favorite quotes of all time. From one of my favorite books of all time:

"It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us."
- Rorschach, Watchmen.

And why doesn't god intervene? It's said that God loves every single one of us. "To the hustlers, killers, murderers, drug dealers even us cripples
(Jesus walks with them)"
If he intervenes, he would go against his own creations, ones that he loves. He gave us freewill, and the chance to use it. It is really us that creates this chaos in the world, "only us". He may have a plan, he may of something but.. we don't know.

not gonna read everyone's reply, but I follow Yogananda, and he says that this is a world of duality, so suffering is part of it (I don't hear you complaining that there is so much pleasure in the world and that our Father doesn't protect us from it--pleasure and suffering: two sides of same coin; we are supposed to learn to be stronger, overcome); suffering and pleasure are not truly real, but we have been hypnotized by God's "maya" (which can also mean Satan); we are immortal, but few realize it; God loves us eternally and unconditionally, but few realize it; our nature as souls is Satchitananda: ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new bliss, but few realize it

only way to realize is to love God thru daily prayer, meditation, serving others, remembering God all the time...in other words, becoming a saint; but few are willing to make such an effort; and it does take evolution of many lives to become ready to really seek God

every black cloud eventually disperses and lets in sunshine again, but the opposite too is true in this dual plane of existence

reply to post by dgtempe


Such is the result of Free Will that put our sin into motion and has worked to tear apart the fabric of the universe with all our war and violence. This has resulted in causing an imbalance that affects the universe and every living thing. When we opted for free will, that meant the repercussions came with it.

The fact that He sent His Only Begotten Son, to die in our stead that we may be saved, is utterly compassionate.

We reap what we sow. Those that we see as innocent are still under the same laws operating in the universe from the moment we fell and free will was put into effect. They too have inherited the implications that come with that original fall.

When we chose free will, we also gave this world over to the fallen dark forces, and our lives have been implicated in ways that make it impossible for God to over ride the laws put into effect as a result of that choice.

Everything we choose is a direct link to how these laws operate. They are closely interconnected.

Just remember, the ultimate sacrifice was paid and given freely that we may be saved. It is only the body that dies and that is inevitable for everyone and everything, whether it is a meteor or a cardiac arrest.

When free will became the universal operating system death also came with it.

The earth and man were created to fill it and move on to other living worlds and fill them and so on. In time the now dead worlds will be made living again so shall we live. In Gods judgment Pro. 11:3 The integrity of the upright shall guild him....Integrity means unreserved loving submission. The very nature of God is to give what is desired within His plan so it explains why Satan is given his desires for a short time in God's eyes. The curse on the earth was patterned after Adam, Eve and Satan's words or desires. Just as the curse on the gods of Egypt as by plagues. It is not God's fault what Adam, Eve and Satan did and your judged at death by your own sins unless one has excepted Christ and been born again. If one could see the punishment of these godless people in the after life you would feel very different. I am glad Christ paid the price that we might live. We are appointed to live, suffer and die but it is all settled in the end. However there is an exception coming noted in Ezk.37 when the graves are opened and dead return for a period to earth. This also happened at Christ death as this is a type of it. So may be a some dead people can answer your questions in a few years from now.

reply to post by miriam0566


How do you know what point "I am making"? Nowhere there did I say "hey guys you are all dumb and there is no god because Epicurus said this..."
However, I think it is quite apparent that Epicurus himself did not feel very inclined to belief in a god, from his Tetrapharmakos:
"God should not concern us.
Death is not to be feared.
What is good is easy to obtain.
What is bad is easily avoided."
I think his best poem if you want to call it that, is :
"Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?" Which I feel is very insightful. My message to all reading this - stop worrying about the intangibles and focus on your life that you see and feel around you, before you waste the time you are given. I don't mean go party all night and drink like a fish, I just mean make your life worthwhile

Originally posted by dgtempe
I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that??

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

I have some bad news and some good news. The bad news is this is hell. The good news is the Savior will empty hell as each hellion lays down belief in his existence.

Christ!

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

You explain your problem in your second sentence. You apparently have never read your Bible. It tells about a God who gave people freedom, even to reject him, as all of us do, at least part of the time. Our compassionate, loving God wants us to voluntarily love Him, and that cannot be forced.

Your Bible tells us that God has intervened (John 3:16) and will intervene again (Matthew 24).

So what about all the people around the world that died before Christ as a saviour entered the picture? Do the get the "grandfather clause" to state their case. What about all the obscure parts of the earth that will never hear of Christ. Will they be separated from god because they were unable to accept him as the savior.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123

 

You cannot make a FREE and independent choice when consequences being held over your head, weighs on the choice. In other words, the consequences MANIPULATE the ultimate choice you make thus making the choice not completely FREE.

And yet, despite knowing the consequences, people haven't accepted Christ, died unsaved, and unfortunately are right now separated from God for all eternity. People have free will and choose to reject Christ all the time. God doesn't want this to happen. He wants people to accept that Christ died for our sins but He can't force them to do it. God loves us and doesn't want us to go to Hell.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by jfj123


I never said it had no meaning in fact the exact opposite but I also pointed out it is transitory. Kindly, pay attention to what I say please.

reply to post by jfj123


If the soul never dies then what's it matter about physical death?

So from what I am hearing is the has to be "fear" or fear of sin/death/hell whatever you may call it to keep you on the path of god. Without this constant fear of sin and the need to repent then all religion is bunk. Jesus dying for our sins hasn't changed anything. We still sin and still will go to hell. Jesus died in vain.

It's pure nonsensical stupidity. It's completely illogical.

Jesus didn't die for my sins, he died for yours. It's not my hell, it's yours.... so you should burn in it.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123

 

I understand that they're genuine questions.

Dodadoom answered your question on the previous page. If God just wiped our slate clean we'd have no reason to be sorry for our sins and no reason to trust in Christ. We could just sin and sin and sin knowing we had a free ticket to heaven. The Bible says, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 KJV. There's nothing we can do to pay for our sins because, well, we've sinned and are imperfect. But Christ was sinless and thus His death payed for our sins.

By saying god cannot intervene is dumb. He has intervened, haven't you read your bible. Explain away these interventions.

The Flood
Sodom and Gomorrah
Plagues
The virgin birth or impregnation of Mary

Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

You explain your problem in your second sentence. You apparently have never read your Bible. It tells about a God who gave people freedom, even to reject him, as all of us do, at least part of the time. Our compassionate, loving God wants us to voluntarily love Him, and that cannot be forced.

Your Bible tells us that God has intervened (John 3:16) and will intervene again (Matthew 24).

reply to post by favouriteslave

Everyone gets another chance wabbit.
God is mercifull towards others, unlike some on this thread.
His way works ultimately the best for everyone.
Mans way failed a long time ago, its just now catching up to us.

You have to come to him and repent.
I hope your life always goes so well you dont ever need him.
Once again he does not build robots, but real live flesh and blood humans.
We are put here to learn how to be humble and help others.
Um, ya.....you know the opposite of selfish?
Something we have no clue of in this country, I know.